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Old January 30, 2009, 08:23 AM   #26
Bailey4765
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Try to outrun/outdrive him first.
If I was sure the road rager was trying to ram me and that was the only viable option due to the positions of other vehicles, that may be the only course of action. Letting him get past you may give you the tactical advantage though. Lots of options in this situation.

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They don't teach single hand racking the slide anymore...........................I would be curious to know what it is, though, and wonder if it was actually a procedure specified in the manuals or just an instructors "extra knowledge"
I guess for a lot of instructors it would just be extra knowledge, depending on the level of instruction they are trained to administer. The liability involved in teaching concealed carry presentation, much less one handed weapons manipulation, requires a somewhat advanced combat pistol instructor.

I believe the earliest use of one handed racking started out with the old M1917 holster with personnel carrying cond 3. The pistol is partially drawn and the grip is turned 90 degrees with the top of the slide towards the body. The pistol is then pushed in toward the body then downward. The rear sight digs into the flap of the holster, holding the slide captive as the grip frame moves downward. The pistol is then quickly drawn upward effectively chambering a round and the presentation to the target is continued.

This method was further modified by using anything available that could capture the rear sight with enough of a purchase to cycle the pistol.

All the Gunners Mates I have talked to that were active during the era of the .45 in standard service knew this technique, but I do not believe I ever asked them where they learned it.

Kind of long winded on this, but you asked and I felt the least I could do was provide a reasonable explanation of the technique.
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Old January 30, 2009, 08:51 AM   #27
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Try to outrun/outdrive him first.
I have to question the logic of outrunning someone with road rage. First off, that means you end up breaking traffic laws. Second, there is no guarantee you will end up being able to evade said person. Thirdly, add more speed with someone trying to potentially drive you off the road, and you could end up in a bad accident.
I think it would almost be better to pull over to the side of the road. If they were just angry, they would just drive on. If they intended you harm, it just seems that being stationary with a gun is safer than speeding in a car around innocents.
Now if you can loose the person by, like the OP did, taking an exit or what not, running away is always the better option. I just dont feel like speeding away is the best move...
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Old January 30, 2009, 03:37 PM   #28
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You guys are right; it was entirely the OP's fault for
1. Being a courteous driver
2. Watching to make sure the other driver didn't escalate things more than they already were
3. Keeping a cool head

The OP was simply sharing a story, and you guys try to flip it on him like he made some kind of mistake. You are reading too much into this story. I've seen this happen on TFL before. Everybody needs to relax.
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Old January 30, 2009, 10:31 PM   #29
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The OP was simply sharing a story, and you guys try to flip it on him like he made some kind of mistake.
If there has been a mistake, it lies in his having posted this on a gun forum. Antis have for years expressed concern about road rage resulting in gunfire. Didn't happen here, but if it hadn't been within the realm of possibility, what was the point of posting this in the first place?

Guns aside--had there been an accident, how might the OP's actions be judged in terms of contributing negligence, or worse?

The OP's post is indelible and as the saying goes, "can and will be used against you." Or us, as the case may be.

Sorry, but that's the way it is.

We need to consider what we say here--beforehand.
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Old January 31, 2009, 10:49 PM   #30
chinpokojed
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Good to see another instructor around here! Do you drive a Spec E30 in NASA-MA?

Not sure what everyone's getting so worked up about, it sounds like everything turned out alright. No bent up sheetmetal, no holes in you (or the other person), and no police involvement.. I've had worse days!
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Old January 31, 2009, 11:08 PM   #31
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You teach teenagers to ignore road ragers, yet you looked at the Mercedes driver three times?
I'm not sure that completely ignoring someone who pulls up next to you is a wise thing. He's already escalated things whether you look at him or not. Can't speak for everyone, but looking to see what he's up to seems like common sense to me. Maybe check things out and then ignore him.

We've all got stories like that. A gun shouldn't be an issue. Can't tell you how many times a driver got impatient with me when I was going just as fast as the car in front of me. Some people get mad when you leave a safe cushion and aren't tailgating the car in front of you like he's doing to you. I've been running into some pretty agressive gals lately, also.

I agree, that guns shouldn't be part of the discussion. However, things have escalated to something serious over less.

I too, have changed lanes in what I thought was plenty of time, only to have the driver behind me indicate his displeasure by coming up fast behind and tailgating---just like happened to BMW.

Nothing usually comes of it because the driver probably does that all the time to many people---but you never know.

Last edited by Nnobby45; January 31, 2009 at 11:18 PM.
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Old January 31, 2009, 11:39 PM   #32
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CCW Helped me mature

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Carrying a firearm has certainly calmed me down. Before, I would play along with road ragers for my own personal enjoyment.
That's Perfect.... I can't describe how many times i've had someone road bully me. And it would always end in either a Freeway race (once you rode my bumper, i'd floor it and let my turbo spool to it's content when you try to pass... Which has resulted in a $1100 ticket for going 141mph), or a Fist fight at the nearest light(which i've won and lost countless times). But NOW those things don't even enter my mind. I'm no longer on a quest to prove that i'm the toughest or the fastest... If someone flies up on my bumper, i'll just pull over. They flip me off, or call me names... But I know that if i get out or encourage them, the odds of them pulling a weapon and putting me into a self inflicted defense situation sky-rocket. And i'll shoot to defend myself, but only if theres no other way out. I may get hot headed but I when think about having my USP in my posession I immediately feel sobered and humble. Period.
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Old February 1, 2009, 12:31 AM   #33
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I agree with Glock Fan, you guys are acting like he actually shot the guy trying to ram him off the road. I wouldn't think a bunch of guys who own guns (who I hope are level headed) would be so aggressive to a person just posting a story. We are supposed to be the cool heads of society, not the furry fingered internet bullies that torment forums.

I think the rule "If you have nothing nice to say then don't say anything at all" should be applied here.
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Old February 1, 2009, 09:30 AM   #34
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I'm not sure that completely ignoring someone who pulls up next to you is a wise thing. He's already escalated things whether you look at him or not. Can't speak for everyone, but looking to see what he's up to seems like common sense to me. Maybe check things out and then ignore him.
Thank you. That's exactly what I was trying to say, and Glockfan speaks the truth. We tend to flame a lot of people on their stories and this was his first post that wasn't a "gun for sale" post! Welcome to the forum.
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Old February 1, 2009, 04:12 PM   #35
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I agree with Glock Fan, you guys are acting like he actually shot the guy trying to ram him off the road. I wouldn't think a bunch of guys who own guns (who I hope are level headed) would be so aggressive to a person just posting a story. We are supposed to be the cool heads of society, not the furry fingered internet bullies that torment forums.

I think the rule "If you have nothing nice to say then don't say anything at all" should be applied here.
I would characterize many of the responses as constructive criticism, not aggression. No one has resorted to name-calling, threats, or personal attacks. How can you correlate a critical post with gun ownership? I'm certainly not going to shoot someone just because I disagree with him.

When you post a story on a forum, you solicit responses from the entire world. Not everyone will give you a big high five. The beauty of this forum is the opportunity it gives us to evaluate the actions of others, and to learn from their experiences. Conversely, we can learn from how others evaluate our stories.

You can be nice and still disagree with someone.

-T
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Old February 3, 2009, 02:41 PM   #36
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If I was sure the road rager was trying to ram me and that was the only viable option due to the positions of other vehicles, that may be the only course of action. Letting him get past you may give you the tactical advantage though. Lots of options in this situation.
Exactly. You don't have to be in front of someone to out drive them.
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Old February 3, 2009, 06:00 PM   #37
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While traveling through Wisconsin many years back we pulled into a rest area and were almost immediately blocked in by another car. The three passengers jumped out and starting yelling for us to get out of our car. We didn't have our CCW's back then...but I did have a really cherry M1 carbine...

My wife turned on the inside light as I locked and loaded a 30 round magazine. When last seen the other folks were exiting the rest area at high speed, leaving us with a new tire iron and a ratty aluminum baseball bat. Sometimes it's just handy to have a gun in the car...

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Old February 3, 2009, 06:17 PM   #38
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Interesting thoughts, for a new member's second second post...................
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Old February 3, 2009, 06:22 PM   #39
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this is looking like a troll post to me...
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Old February 3, 2009, 10:43 PM   #40
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"this is looking like a troll post to me..."

Not at all. I've been away for a couple of days. I tried to get on last night, a couple of times, but couldn't. Was the site down for maintenance?

ps I looked for a "quote" button and couldn't find it so I did the cut-paste thing.

Last edited by BMW Racer; February 3, 2009 at 11:18 PM.
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Old February 3, 2009, 11:04 PM   #41
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Knowing that you have the edge, and, that if you use it, your chances of ending up in jail are about 100% tends to make for a polite society. For awhile in LA guys were opening up with Mac 10's, and that also made for much less road rage bull.

I've actually watched 3 kids hit my car, drunk, with Dad's van, in a parking lot, right in front of me. I played it through my mind, and, the dent in the car was far less painful then loosing my right to protect myself in Kali.

I NEVER want to pull a gun, period. But, I don't want to be the 1 in 17 every year that is a victim of violent crime, or less, in a couple major cities around, in which I work...
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Old February 3, 2009, 11:13 PM   #42
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"You teach teenagers to ignore road ragers, yet you looked at the Mercedes driver three times?

I'm no driving instructor, but I know that making eye contact with a road rager is a definite no-no. If ignoring him would've defused the situation, we can only assume that acknowledging him would escalate it, right?

No sane person would produce a gun under the circumstances you describe, so exactly what kind of response do you expect from your post?

-T"


Actually, I should have written it a little differently. I glanced over and then looked right back at the road, each time. He was right beside my car so the only way to have proper awareness was to briefly check his car's position, every few seconds. Yes, I did look at him very briefly but I was mainly watching his driving. And, it was at night so it's hard to know if he thought I was confronting him by looking over.

And we tell teenagers to ignore a road rager because teenagers tend to make more-emotional decisions than do mature adults, and thus get sucked-into bad situations.

You are correct that no sane person would produce a gun in this situation and I didn't produce my gun, or ever considered producing my gun. Nothing real deep about that statement; that's just what happened.

So why did I post this experience? Certainly not because I was expecting any specific type of response. I was just curious about any type of response, and I was hoping others would share their experiences as well. I like to learn from others, especially when I'm new to something.

Also, I didn't get offended at anything you wrote - although I didn't agree with it all. I'm a big boy and can take alot worse.


Last edited by BMW Racer; February 3, 2009 at 11:38 PM.
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Old February 3, 2009, 11:27 PM   #43
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"BWMRacer, good story. I've wondered how I would react in a similar situation, and have not yet gotten a CCW, partly for this reason. It sounds like you made good decisions - maybe not perfect in hindsight, but good job. I wonder about the home that guy was going back to.
Don"


Right. And I agree that I didn't react perfectly. I was just interested to know what others would have done, or have done, when they were facing the same-type situation. Not whether they "pulled out their weapon" which no sane person would do, but just their general reaction.

Last edited by BMW Racer; February 3, 2009 at 11:41 PM.
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Old February 3, 2009, 11:36 PM   #44
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"Good to see another instructor around here! Do you drive a Spec E30 in NASA-MA?..."

Good catch!

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Old February 4, 2009, 12:18 AM   #45
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Things have changed. Friends were going hunting, did pretty much the same thing you did on Highway 80, going to Nevada. Very quiet, soft spoken guys. Guy with a Porsche got angry, and, was diving under their bumper, keeping pace with them, etc. They were in a pickup, and, it did have gun racks, and they did have rifles, so, the Porsche driver was having serious sanity issues. After a few minutes of being harassed, trying to get away from the guy, etc. the passenger had enough. He pulled his 1911, and, racked the slide, ejecting a round onto the Porsches' windshield. This had an immediate sobbering effect, and, the guy dove for the nearest freeway exit.

These days, the guy would use his cell, call the CHP, and have both of the guys arrested, and, probably get off scott free.
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Old February 4, 2009, 05:56 AM   #46
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Found this article by Mas Ayoob. It's on topic for your situation:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...g=content;col1

These situations are always reported the same way in the media: "Unarmed Motorist Slain by Police." A full size automobile at fifty miles an hour generates half a million foot pounds of energy. Compute it downward for a small car like a '91 Cavalier and for the lower speed involved--the prosecutor's own expert admitted that the vehicle was accelerating rapidly as it came toward the patrolman--and you still have more body-destroying force than could be mustered if every officer working the midnight shift had fired every round of ammunition in every magazine on their duty belts. Any police officer who has responded to an auto/pedestrian accident knows the sort of horrendous, mangling trauma that such an impact causes. The term "he was strained through the grille" is not just a figure of speech. Avulsions--field amputations--are commonplace when cars slam into humans. Flattened torsos. Skulls literally crushed like eggshells. The cops know what's about to happen to them if they don't use the greatest force available to them to stop it. That's why they shoot at drivers who try to run them down, and that's why the courts generally rule them justifiable for so doing.

I LOVE this quote:
Quote:
The great Oliver Wendell Holmes had phrased it perfectly in the first half of the 20th Century: "Detached reflection is not demanded in the presence of an upraised knife." Nor should it be demanded in the face of a drawn gun, or an onrushing motor vehicle.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...=rbxcra.2.a.11

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There is no question that American Handgunner helped change that.

Last edited by Socrates; February 4, 2009 at 06:02 AM.
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Old February 7, 2009, 04:47 AM   #47
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So why did I post this experience? Certainly not because I was expecting any specific type of response. I was just curious about any type of response, and I was hoping others would share their experiences as well. I like to learn from others, especially when I'm new to something.
You have to realize Bmwracer that there are a bunch of jackasses on the internet that will do anything to get a rise out of you. Safety behind the keyboard works both ways here in internet world. You do not have to apologize for their stupidity.

As far as your post goes. Seems to me you did fine. No one got killed and that's a plus. If I am truly at fault during a driving incident ( my opinion of course) I will truly tell the other driver that I am sorry for not paying attention and take the ass chewing. However I personally don't take bull**** from other drivers either if they were at fault. Pride I guess.
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Old February 8, 2009, 05:03 PM   #48
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If there has been a mistake, it lies in his having posted this on a gun forum. Antis have for years expressed concern about road rage resulting in gunfire. Didn't happen here, but if it hadn't been within the realm of possibility, what was the point of posting this in the first place?
Umm....the title of this thread is Didn't even consider my gun. Seems as if he is (correctly) saying that the antis don't have a leg to stand on, as usual. Any of the "gunplay" they are so afraid of will more than likely be of the illegal type between criminals. So naturally, they think to disarm US.

I've been in some minor tiffs since I started carrying, and like him, I never considered my weapon. And no, you don't have to be a hothead, sometimes you are forced into it.
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Old February 13, 2009, 10:37 PM   #49
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it would've ended badly for him if he tried to ram my vehicle, my f350 is considerably more sturdy than his car and my 8 years of short track racing would help, many times ive gotten rubrails hooked and the other driver tried to rub me off and every time ive been on the winning end.

diehard, hey glad to see someone local on here, im about 15 miles south of you. my brother in law lives on ferry st up by you
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Old February 16, 2009, 02:22 PM   #50
john in jax
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I'm very thankful you kept your head and did NOT pull the gun or think about it.

Just a week or two ago down here in FL two cars were northbound on I-95 and each got a case of road rage. The swerving, cussing and gestures quickly turned into one ignorant moron displaying his gun and then you had 2 cars shooting at each other while driving at 70mph up a crowded I-95.

And they each had the nerve to call 911 on the other car. Luckily the 911 operators and police had them pull over (separate places) and each driver/shooter is facing felony charges.
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