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Old January 26, 2009, 06:12 PM   #1
tote'n a roscoe
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Someone Help Me

how do i go about doing a firearm transaction with an out of state resident with all this ffl BS.
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Old January 26, 2009, 06:29 PM   #2
Johnc
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Locate a FFL in your area. You can have the gun shipped to him if you are buying.
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Old January 26, 2009, 06:38 PM   #3
George PT-111
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I am also a nebie at this. So the seller part is sending the gun to your FFL right?? I mean the seller doesn't need to go to the dealer?

and the buyer part is to give the seller adress of where to ship the gun to, then he picks up the gun from a dealer right?

The dealer send papers to the seller upon reciving the gun right?
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Old January 26, 2009, 06:50 PM   #4
frank 501
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Both parties need a dealer with an FFL. Here's how it works:

The buyer sends the FFL to the seller. The seller's dealer can now log the gun in and then out to the buyers FFL with a copy of his (the seller's) FFL.

When received, the buyer's FFL can log the gun in, and then out to the buyer.
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Old January 26, 2009, 07:24 PM   #5
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GunBroker lists FFLs near you. I was surprised by the number of FFLs in my area. My gunsmith is my FFL.
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Old January 26, 2009, 07:26 PM   #6
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Only the receiving end needs a person with an FFL, unless your state has some specific law.

The person receiving the gun has to find an ffl and tell them they want to transfer a firearm from out of state.
Some, not all FFL's will not receive from a private individual. It is not against the law as some will claim, at least not federal, so you may have to hunt a bit.
You will be charged a transfer fee. You should not be charged tax on your purchase, though again, some will try.

Gun broker has a pretty good ffl finder, and will list them for your area.

The person sending the gun has to supply their driverslicense to the receiving ffl and the ffl should fax or mail a copy of their ffl to show they are licenced.

You can ship a long gun via usps, but pistols and such are fedex, ups, or dhl.
Most of them require overnight shipping. So expect another 30-50 bucks on top of the price of the gun.
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Old January 26, 2009, 07:37 PM   #7
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The sender/seller does NOT have to go through an FFL.

I've sold lots of guns on gunbroker like this. Just make sure the recieving FFL will accept from a non FFL. You must send a copy of your DL if you do not send through an FFL also.
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Old January 26, 2009, 09:44 PM   #8
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I'm pretty sure if both parties ship through ffl's you can ship handguns through usps.
DHL is going to stop shipping in the US soon, only going to ship over seas.
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Old January 26, 2009, 11:50 PM   #9
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Some states require that you ship the firearm FROM an FFL TO an FFL.
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Old January 27, 2009, 05:29 AM   #10
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FFL to FFL, you get a call "I've got your gun, you fill out a little paperwork, pay fee, take your new toy home.
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Old January 27, 2009, 12:44 PM   #11
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Since you are 19, you can not recieve a Handgun from a FFL. The only way for you to legally have one is if it is a gift. You can not have a pistol in your name untill you are 21. You need someone to "give" you a gun, but it will be in their name. Not so many people are willing to do that. They also have to be a resident of your state.
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Old January 27, 2009, 08:58 PM   #12
tote'n a roscoe
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thats how i was going about doing this. and thats how i went about getting all my others. my girlfriend buys them and gives them to me as a "gift"
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Old January 27, 2009, 10:44 PM   #13
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Quote:
my girlfriend buys them and gives them to me as a "gift"
You shouldn't say that on an open forum, it can be considered a straw purchase.
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Old January 27, 2009, 10:51 PM   #14
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as long as he does not financially reinburse her i don't think it's a straw purchase.
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Old January 28, 2009, 08:00 AM   #15
tote'n a roscoe
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yup that is correct what me and my girlfriend do is not a straw sale
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Old January 28, 2009, 08:18 AM   #16
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.... unless it is your money ?
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Old January 28, 2009, 08:20 AM   #17
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as long as he does not financially reinburse her i don't think it's a straw purchase.
Not necessarily. There are many other ways of defining "compensation". Do not underestimate the legal system.

The primary sticking point regarding straw purchases is that a person can only give a handgun as a gift to someone who is legally entitled to own it, under state and federal law.

If the receiving party is not legally eligible and the buyer knows it, it's a straw purchase whether or not the court can prove that money- or any other item of value- changed hands.

*Mandatory disclaimer: Don't take this as official legal advice. I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV. Caveat emptor.
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Old January 28, 2009, 08:53 AM   #18
tote'n a roscoe
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and lets say it were to be my money or i did reinberse her. what kind of legal issues am i looking at.
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Old January 28, 2009, 12:29 PM   #19
Delaware_Dan
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lets say it were to be my money or i did reinberse her
That would be a straw purchase. Your girlfriend could be brought up on charges. Now if you were 21 it would be a different story.
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Old January 28, 2009, 12:46 PM   #20
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That would be a straw purchase. Your girlfriend could be brought up on charges. Now if you were 21 it would be a different story.
Why? 19, 21, legal to possess and receive the firearm or not... if the girlfriend purchases the gun, and receives compensation for that particular gun from the boyfriend, and then gives the boyfriend the gun (or gives boyfriend the gun and then receives compensation), it is a straw purchase. The legality of the person receiving the gun to own and possess that gun has no bearing on it whatsoever.

The only way a transaction such as above is legal is if the girlfriend buys the gun, adds it to her own personal collection, and then subsequently sells it to the boyfriend.

The BATFE uses a couple of indicators to determine if a straw purchase has occured: 1. Length of time the original purchaser has the gun - shorter the period that girlfriend has the gun before "selling" to the boyfriend - more likely a straw purchase. 2. Number of transactions occuring - the more guns the girlfriend buys and then "sells" to the boyfriend - more likely a straw purchase. 3. Does the girlfriend own her own guns and shoot - she does not have any guns of her own or shoot - only buys and gives them as "gifts" - more likely a straw purchase.

The legality of the recipient of the gun is covered in a completely separate and unrelated section of 18 USC 922 from straw purchase. All a straw purchase is is making a false oral or written statement to a licensed dealer in regards to the purchase of a firearm or ammunition in order to mislead the dealer as to the identity of the true purchaser - AND NOTHING ELSE. Giving the gun to a prohibited person is then furnishing a gun to a prohibited person - AND NOTHING ELSE, the two are not related.

Last edited by NavyLT; January 28, 2009 at 12:56 PM.
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Old January 28, 2009, 12:51 PM   #21
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and lets say it were to be my money or i did reinberse her. what kind of legal issues am i looking at.
You are looking at your girlfriend going to Federal prison and you being prosecuted as an accessory to the crime. It is a violation of 18 USC 922(a)(6)

Quote:
(a) It shall be unlawful—
(6) for any person in connection with the acquisition or attempted acquisition of any firearm or ammunition from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, knowingly to make any false or fictitious oral or written statement or to furnish or exhibit any false, fictitious, or misrepresented identification, intended or likely to deceive such importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector with respect to any fact material to the lawfulness of the sale or other disposition of such firearm or ammunition under the provisions of this chapter;

I think most of us get the feeling here that your girlfriend is buying guns on your behalf from dealers. Your best bet would be to quit doing that and purchase your handguns in private sales from people other than your girlfriend who are residents of your state.
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Old January 28, 2009, 12:54 PM   #22
NavyLT
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Since you are 19, you can not recieve a Handgun from a FFL. The only way for you to legally have one is if it is a gift. You can not have a pistol in your name untill you are 21. You need someone to "give" you a gun, but it will be in their name. Not so many people are willing to do that. They also have to be a resident of your state.
This statement is not true. The OP can buy his handguns in private party sales. And unless the state has some sort of gun registration, the guns are not "in someone's" name - the 4473 does not register a gun to anyone, it only verifies the legality of the purchaser to purchase that gun from a dealer.
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Old January 28, 2009, 01:02 PM   #23
Delaware_Dan
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This statement is not true. The OP can buy his handguns in private party sales
Like I said, he can not recieve a handgun from an FFL untill he is 21.
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Old January 28, 2009, 01:15 PM   #24
NavyLT
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DD,

The parts of your post that were incorrect were:
Quote:
The only way for you to legally have one is if it is a gift.
That is not true, he can legally buy one in a FTF sale.


Quote:
You can not have a pistol in your name untill you are 21. You need someone to "give" you a gun, but it will be in their name.
Unless there is a specific state, county or city gun registration requirement, the gun is not "in someone's name". The 4473 is not gun registration. He can legally own a handgun at 19. If you consider ownership as "in his name" then your statement is even more incorrect.
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Old January 28, 2009, 01:27 PM   #25
David Armstrong
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This statement is not true. The OP can buy his handguns in private party sales.
That does vary from state to state. Some places it might be OK, some it might not.
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