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Old May 28, 2014, 02:36 PM   #1
TATER
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Chicago Plans To Videotape All Firearms Sales

At this point, I don't think it would bother me, or am I not seeing the whole picture..
What are your thoughts on this? Does it step too far, They got your name, are they trying to put a face with a name Or are they trying to intimidate.
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Old May 28, 2014, 03:00 PM   #2
Brian Pfleuger
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One wonders how they intend to garner compliance from the gangs that are responsible for virtually all violence in the city?

One might also wonder if the intent is to increase costs for dealers so as to discourage the business?

Also, what is to prevent the average person from simply buying a gun outside city limits?

Considering the identification and permit requirements, what additional benefit could this possibly have?

I wonder if we should start videoing the voting booths?

Those are the objections, just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are (many) more.
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Old May 28, 2014, 03:04 PM   #3
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Do you have a link? Without any more info on it, we can only make educated guesses as to the details and the intent of the law.

I assume its official intent is to give evidence to prosecute people lying on the 4473 and also trying to make straw purchases? It could also be useful for helping determine if a dealer was complicit in a straw purchase sale. But it's a safe bet that it's also unofficially intended as a deterrent for legal gun sales.

I wouldn't have a problem with this if I knew it would only be used to prosecute actual criminals. Just like I would have no problem with gun registration if I knew it would never be used against law-abiding gun owners. But we all know these laws are often used to intimidate lawful gun owners and to complicate legal gun ownership.
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Old May 28, 2014, 03:21 PM   #4
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Here is the link,

http://www.grandviewoutdoors.com/art....tcI7Uqfl.dpbs

Brian, I was thinking in general terms, most stores have cameras.
I do see all your points.
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Old May 28, 2014, 03:41 PM   #5
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Quote:
One might also wonder if the intent is to increase costs for dealers so as to discourage the business?
Bingo. This will do nothing to discourage criminals, who simply import guns from out of state. Chicago has been harassing what few dealers they have for decades. This is just an extension of that.
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Old May 28, 2014, 04:08 PM   #6
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Stores would also have to keep a log of any guns sold from the store that are later picked up at crime scenes.
Soo.., the police will find guns at crime scenes, trace the guns, then report this info to each store, so the store can keep a log.....

Are the stores then required to turn away the former purchaser, if she/he returns to make a new purchase? What's the point of the log?
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Old May 28, 2014, 04:33 PM   #7
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The real trouble comes in the implementation.

Security cameras don't cut it, I'd guess. I'm sure there would be requirements on resolution, angle, etc.

Besides, there would have to be some easy way of segregating, downloading and storing this video for.... how long? This would get cumbersome in short order.
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Old May 28, 2014, 04:43 PM   #8
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Here are my questions:
  1. Is the city going to mandate a video retention period?
  2. Will it try to required stores to turn over videos on request?
  3. What about consent issues from the patron's side?

What if I'm walking through a gun store, minding my own business, when Mikey Mayhem decides to buy the UeberBlaster 3000 just before his rampage? Can I then expect to be all over the news, just because I stood behind Mikey?
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Old May 28, 2014, 05:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Servo
Bingo. This will do nothing to discourage criminals, who simply import guns from out of state. Chicago has been harassing what few dealers they have for decades. This is just an extension of that.
There are no dealers in Chicago, they were outlawed decades ago. This ordinance is in response to a court ruling that the ban on gun shops is unconstitutional.

I'm not real optimistic any will actually open here, but it would be nice not having to drive 45 minutes each way (assuming no traffic, ha!) just to get ammunition.
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Old May 28, 2014, 05:53 PM   #10
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There are no dealers in Chicago, they were outlawed decades ago. This ordinance is in response to a court ruling that the ban on gun shops is unconstitutional.
Ah. I was thinking of Midwest, but they're actually outside the city limits.

So nobody's opened up since Ezell?
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Old May 28, 2014, 06:10 PM   #11
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The judge gave the city 6 months to craft an ordinance, so mid-July would be the earliest someone could try to open up.
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Old May 28, 2014, 06:39 PM   #12
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Of course, the Tiny Dancer (Rahm's nickname within the unfortunate inhabitants of his zone of influence) also wants to mandate a waiting period which---wait for it----is exactly the same as the state's existing waiting period.

Of course, mandating that sales be videotaped won't do ANYTHING to ID anyone-how could it? It will still be up to the paperwork and ID check to do that, unless he's also going to require that gun buyers have their name tattooed across their faces in 2" letters....

You can't make this stuff up; it's like Rahm gets into a room with a bunch of other guys who've never read the state law, and pulls ideas out of thin air. I'm scared to think he could be driving a car in this state, much less running that city.


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Old May 28, 2014, 06:43 PM   #13
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Who is going to approve the video system? Who is going to pay for the approval process and how long will it take? (and how much do you have to pay the alderman's brother-in-law) Also I think there was a requirement for no gun store licenses within 500 feet of a school, and the property must be zoned commercial. Is there anyplace in Chicago that is more than 500 feet from some kind of school?
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Old May 28, 2014, 06:47 PM   #14
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This is strictly intimidation, stalling, and obstructionism - to make it so difficult to open a store in the Chicago area, that most won't try. Anybody that tries to buy a firearm in IL (including Chgo) must have a Firearms Owner ID card (FOID) that supposedly has already been vetted by the IL State PD - and it has your picture on it....

al
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Old May 28, 2014, 07:18 PM   #15
Brian Pfleuger
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Indeed it is.

That is the current anti-gun tactic. They are no longer wrong but for the right reasons. They now believe that the means justify the ends. The laws aren't passed with the belief that they are ok, i.e. constitutional, they are passed simply knowing that it doesn't make any difference.

The court cases will take years to make it through the system. If they "win", they're happy. If not, so what, it worked for years and they'll just pass another law that does the same thing in a different way and reset the clock.

The effect is the same. Until the courts are willing to confront the intentional defiance, it will continue.
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Old May 28, 2014, 07:41 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backroad
Anybody that tries to buy a firearm in IL (including Chgo) must have a Firearms Owner ID card (FOID) that supposedly has already been vetted by the IL State PD - and it has your picture on it....
And every FOID card holder is subject to a background check every single day by the ISP to ensure the eligibility is up to date, yet we still have to run another background check when buying a firearm and then the ridiculous waiting period. A FOID card holder literally has hundreds of background checks run on them every single year.
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Old May 28, 2014, 07:51 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spats
What if I'm walking through a gun store, minding my own business, when Mikey Mayhem decides to buy the UeberBlaster 3000 just before his rampage? Can I then expect to be all over the news, just because I stood behind Mikey?
Here in CA, we have red light cameras which automagically snap pictures of drivers who run red lights so equipped.

The municipalities who were early adopters of those camera systems were hit with healthy lawsuits when the cameras enabled identification of passengers. Now everything else on the interior of the car is blacked out by law, and only the driver is visible in the photo.

I imagine Chicago would adopt something similar after they lost a few hundred grand to gun-owning citizens.

Amazingly stupid politicians you guys have other there. Keep it up and someday you might be able to take the crown from CA politicians.
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Old May 28, 2014, 10:29 PM   #18
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This could be the implementation of a facial recognition database
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Old May 29, 2014, 07:03 AM   #19
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Just to be clear, the city does not own or run the video cameras.
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Old May 30, 2014, 12:00 PM   #20
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Isn't gun usage already videotaped in the convenience stores of Chicago?

I'm sorry - Mayor Rahm needs to address why the citizens of Chicago continue to violate the law about using guns.

San Antonio is full of stores selling guns - Chicago has none. The violent crime rate is three times higher in Chicago.
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Old May 30, 2014, 01:45 PM   #21
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The most egregious thing about this IMO is that Rahm never gets excited about shootings on his plantation. It's only white kids in idyllic settings like CT and CA that seem to bother the little man.

The same can be said of many Democrats. I guess once the voting bloc becomes reliable, who cares?
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Old May 30, 2014, 01:58 PM   #22
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I thought it was bad in the UK, they don't do that here. But you do need a certificate.
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Old May 31, 2014, 12:01 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarrySchell
The most egregious thing about this IMO is that Rahm never gets excited about shootings on his plantation. It's only white kids in idyllic settings like CT and CA that seem to bother the little man.
I don't know, but I don't think this is the case. I think the issue is that he is willing to stand on any grave which gets his agenda the most mileage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn E Meyer
I'm sorry - Mayor Rahm needs to address why the citizens of Chicago continue to violate the law about using guns.

San Antonio is full of stores selling guns - Chicago has none. The violent crime rate is three times higher in Chicago.
This is the crux of the entire issue. Democrats know the answer to this problem is so challenging it will surpass their term length as well as the public's tiny attention span, and therefore attempting to solve the problem won't help them maintain power. To be fair, no other party would tackle the problem, either, for the same reasons.

Since they can't actually start the process of solving the problem, they stick with the tried-and-true cliches. Since enough of the public are stupid enough to buy that crap (just look at the father of some Isla Vista victim), it works.
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Old May 31, 2014, 12:18 PM   #24
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The gun stores in the area should give out Rahm Emanuel masks to all their customers.
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Old May 31, 2014, 01:12 PM   #25
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"The gun stores in the area should give out Rahm Emanuel masks to all their customers."

Oh man that would be hilarious! "Put this mask on and step right up to the counter and face the camera".
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