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Old January 19, 2009, 08:50 PM   #1
indybrad
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Help identifying gun

I need some help identifying this gun. some of the markings are rubbed of. Thanks.






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Old January 19, 2009, 08:51 PM   #2
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Old January 19, 2009, 10:02 PM   #3
James K
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Do you know anything of its origin?

Knowing the caliber and whether it is rifled would help. It looks vaguely like an Enfield rifle-musket, but the markings resemble Arabic. The workmanship is not especially good, and I don't think it is the product of a European or American factory.

My guess would be that it was made in the east (maybe Nepal) as a serious firearm about 1855-1865, copying the British rifle musket of that period. It could possibly have been made to arm a native militia or army of the period.

It certainly does not resemble the usual "tourist" guns of that general area. Those are non-firing dummy guns and I think this one was made as a weapon.

Jim
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Old January 19, 2009, 10:57 PM   #4
indybrad
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I havn't a clue what caliber it is and it is rifled. Do you think it's worth anything more than a couple hundred bucks. Thanks.
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Old January 20, 2009, 12:23 AM   #5
Mike Irwin
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That looks very much like a flintlock gun that was converted to percussion system somewhere during its life.

It also looks like a military musket that has been restocked.
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Old January 20, 2009, 03:13 PM   #6
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FWIW, the numbers are neither Nepali nor Arabic. Back to the guessing game.

Good point on the conversion, Mike. It does look like the extra lockplate holes may have been welded up.

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Old January 20, 2009, 07:56 PM   #7
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Looks alot like a M.1854 Lorenz Rifle-Musket to me. They were an Austrian issued musket, but many thousands were imported during the Civil War. They were originally .54 caliber, but some were rebored to .58 so they could use the same ammo as the more common Enfield & Springfield pattern guns.
If you could post a close-up shot of the lock it might help with the I.D. They usually have three numbers stamped on them indicating the last three digits of the year it was made (eg. [1]856)
The octagon-to-round barrel, cheekpiece, droopy nose-cap, & banana shaped lockplate all indicate a Lorenz, but I think the ramrod isn't original to this particular musket.
Here's a link to some photos of a Lorenz....see what you think.
http://www.sharpsburg-arsenal.com/Ri..._musket_1.html
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Last edited by Arquebus; January 20, 2009 at 08:02 PM. Reason: More info. added
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Old January 20, 2009, 09:36 PM   #8
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I would say it's a match. Thank you very much. There's no date stamp though. Are they worth anything?
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Old January 20, 2009, 10:05 PM   #9
Mike Irwin
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Wow. I was almost certain that that had been converted from a flintlock to a cap lock.

Nifty.
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Old January 20, 2009, 11:48 PM   #10
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worth

That gun is definitely worth more than a cpl hundred. Id spens the money and have it re blued and touched up. Any old gun is worth alt to me just because of its history. No telling how many people lost their lives to that gun
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Old January 21, 2009, 12:00 AM   #11
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It certainly appears to be a Lorenz, and the odd markings don't mean it is not. After the Civil War, the U.S. sold off literally millions of muskets, with the foreign or odd caliber guns being the first to go. And they went to every corner of the world.

Good detective work, Arquebus.

Jim
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Old January 21, 2009, 12:07 AM   #12
indybrad
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Thanks very much for all the help. I'll probably end up selling it. anyone interested?
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Old January 21, 2009, 08:31 PM   #13
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Yep, certainly worth more than $200, but how much more would depend on a lot of things. From the photos it looks like it may have been refinished (color of metalwork & buffed-off lettering on barrel, etc.) sometime in it's past, if so that would detract from its value, also the bore condition would have some bearing especially if it was being purchased as a shooter. I bought a similar style musket a few years ago (Bavarian-made Amberg M.1858) in well used but solid original condition, with a good bore, which I paid $595 for. I'd put a ballpark figure of $400-$800 on yours. If it's untouched with a good bore, probably as much as $1200.
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Old January 21, 2009, 09:25 PM   #14
indybrad
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The rifling is still visible. Would it hurt to try and clean up the bore a little, or should I just leave it be? Any special cleaners I should use. I wouldn't have to ship this to an FFL either, would I? Really appriciate all the help.
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Old January 22, 2009, 12:47 AM   #15
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If you don't have a .54 cleaning rod you could use one for a 20G shotgun. Use that with a bronze brush & some WD40 or similar to loosen up any crud. You can then use some cloth patches, on a jag with some more WD40, to clean out what's left. Once you've got it cleaned up just leave a light coating of gun oil in the bore.
As the rifle is an antique (Pre 1899) you don't have to bother shipping through, or to, a FFL to most states.
If you have any other questions you can PM me if you wish.
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Old January 22, 2009, 09:28 AM   #16
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Quote:
That gun is definitely worth more than a cpl hundred. Id spens the money and have it re blued and touched up. Any old gun is worth alt to me just because of its history. No telling how many people lost their lives to that gun
Noooooooo!

If that rifle is a true collectable, refinishing it in any way will greatly reduce or destroy its value. Do NOT touch the outside!
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Old January 22, 2009, 10:58 AM   #17
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I think I'm just going to clean the bore a little bit and sell it.
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