The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 26, 2009, 07:18 PM   #51
alloy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 11, 2008
Posts: 1,931
poachers??? you think this is about poachers with shotguns and rifles?

they arent concealed carry people they are bear/deer/turkey etc hunting with dogs and long guns, they just poach, they dont care what boundaries they cross and that IS...and has been...illegal since forever anywhere and everywhere. park has nothing to do with poaching.
__________________
Quote:
The uncomfortable question common to all who have had revolutionary changes imposed on them: are we now to accept what was done to us just because it was done?
Angelo Codevilla
alloy is offline  
Old January 26, 2009, 07:19 PM   #52
zxcvbob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2007
Location: S.E. Minnesota
Posts: 4,201
Quote:
And the new regulation will make it harder for the Park Service to catch poachers. As I understand it, one of the main reasons for the original regulation, which requires firearms to be unloaded and inaccessible (e.g. in the trunk of the car) was to help prevent poaching within National Parks, where it's easy, as many animals have lost their fear of humans.
So poachers are going to get concealed weapons permits now? Why not just carry concealed w/o a permit, like other hooligans? (and anyone with any sense who went into Big Bend NP in recent years but before Jan 09 09) I don't like the insinuation...
__________________
"The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun"
zxcvbob is offline  
Old January 26, 2009, 07:24 PM   #53
BlueTrain
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 26, 2005
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 5,825
How do you suppose two women sleeping in a tent might have defended themselves?

The national parks have a few problems, one of which seems to be fewer rangers. But another one is illegal hunting. One of the ways they attempt to deal with this is to close the park at dark (I am referring to Shenandoah here). But for the life of me I don't understand how that helps. This they only do during hunting season but I sort of assume that illegal hunting doesn't confine it self to the legal season. But there must be some logic there.

Oh, I just learned from another post that I must be one of those trolls. Apparently on this forum a troll is someone who has a different opinion. I don't toe anybody's party line.
__________________
Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands!
Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag,
and return us to our own beloved homes!
Buy War Bonds.
BlueTrain is offline  
Old January 26, 2009, 07:33 PM   #54
Vanya
Staff
 
Join Date: July 7, 2008
Location: Upper midwest
Posts: 3,938
Under the previous regulation, the possession of a loaded and readily available firearm was regarded as prima facie evidence of intent.

And, yes, of course that will still apply to anyone with a loaded weapon and no CCW, and yes, of course we'd like to think that no CCW holder would ever take an animal illegally.

Can I imagine a poacher applying for a CCW in order to be able to carry a loaded gun in an NP? It's a bit of stretch, but I can imagine it. "No, sir, officer, this here 44 mag is strictly for personal protection..."

But, yeah, the poaching thing is probably a bit of a red herring -- I think the "self-defense" killing of wildlife is a more legitimate concern vis-a-vis the new regulation.
Vanya is offline  
Old January 27, 2009, 07:42 PM   #55
BlueTrain
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 26, 2005
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 5,825
After thinking about the problem of illegal hunting in some national parks, I concluded that it was likely people were entering the park (Shenandoah, in this case) and hunting after dark but during hunting season. If they were successful, they could, I suppose, claim to have killed it legally somewhere else and therefore could keep the deer.

Now, concerning other remarks I made in this thread earlier, I want to clear up a few things. I think I made mention of referring specifically to Shenandoah Park when I said I'd prefer there not be guns there. I am perfectly aware it is legal in certain other national parks, including all parks in Alaska, to be armed. No doubt it would even be recommended in Alaska. But in that case we are talking long arms, or I would assume so. None of my handguns would fill me with confidence in Alaska, though some I have owned would make me feel better.

Frankly, it isn't so clear cut, the issue of being armed in certain places. There are arguments to be made on both sides, some strong, some weak, but the certain places include not only national parks but churches, bars, the courthouse, your workplace, schools, and so on. My wife claims that having a gun at school (she's a schoolteacher) would be too tempting but I think she was pulling my leg.

Sometimes having a gun may be a good thing but it can also provide a false sense of security. But make no mistake. Parks are concerned about the safety of visitors, especially of those who visit the backcountry, such as it is in places like Shenandoah. Not that they do so much about it.

Other parks in other places are clearly different from the wilds that the East has. It doesn't follow that all parks have to have the same rules. They don't now. They pretty much all make up their own rules, sometimes, apparently, as they go along. But in most places here in Virginia (not just Northern Virginia, either--I'm an immigrant anyway--from West Virginia) I feel pretty safe whether or not I'm in a park. But then I feel pretty safe in D.C., too, mostly. I do use a little common sense, though, and I'm make it OK so far.

So the bottom line is, if you want to carry, go ahead. I probably won't run into you anyway. I'm getting on in years and I don't make it up there so much anyway (now that I've got that senior citizen's pass) and I don't make it down to 14th Street so much anymore either. Why, we're almost old enough to get a Harley and join the gangs that cruise Skyline Drive. But where shall we go now that Jimbo's closed?
__________________
Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands!
Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag,
and return us to our own beloved homes!
Buy War Bonds.
BlueTrain is offline  
Old January 27, 2009, 07:55 PM   #56
brickeyee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 29, 2004
Posts: 3,342
Quote:
If they were successful, they could, I suppose, claim to have killed it legally somewhere else and therefore could keep the deer.
You cannot hunt deer more than 30 minutes after sunset anywhere in Virginia.
brickeyee is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.07991 seconds with 7 queries