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Old January 15, 2009, 06:28 PM   #26
Playboypenguin
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Let's not turn this into an unrelated rant session about why things are the way they are and let's not try and pretend the south was a utopia. I am from there and being a little different could get you killed 40 years ago (and sometimes even today)...and people condoned the violence.
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Old January 15, 2009, 06:30 PM   #27
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+1---Oneonceload
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Old January 15, 2009, 06:30 PM   #28
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Stop escorting her for free. By that I mean, the next time she calls tell her you will do it on one condition, that she apply for a CCW and let you begin teaching her to shoot. Bring the paperwork with you. Tell her if she renegs, not to call you again for an escort because there are companies she can hire for that. Tell her that her safety is her responsibility and that you don't mind lending a hand, which, in this case, means assisting her in obtaining the ability to meet the obligation herself long term. That is good friendship.
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Old January 15, 2009, 06:39 PM   #29
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I would love to, but this lady is not likely to change her stance on owning a gun. She is willing to be protected but not to alter her own beliefs. Not everyone can be educated...or even wants to be. I did give her a can of bear spray.
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Old January 15, 2009, 06:49 PM   #30
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NE is not dangerous. You need to get a lot further from downtown for it to get bad. The homeless stay close to the city for that very reason. They do not feel safe in NoPo, Gresham, or Aloha. I am at those camps all the time. I used to work for Streetlight and I still do outreach to homeless youths.
i'll have to pm you some of my pictures of the "bad" areas

Money is partly the problem... the real problem is where the money is being spent
Portland is dropping millions on green projects, artwork, new bike paths, and beautification... yet doesnt have a penny for youth programs, extra police, or schools.
The same thing is happening down here in eugene.

so i'd say that the bureaucracy and their control of the money, or lack there of, is at the root of the problem.
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Old January 15, 2009, 07:33 PM   #31
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Personally, I would leave it at the bear spray and not take on any more responsibility than that. Not that I have a hard heart toward any of my anti-gun friends (trust me, I have plenty). It's just that their casual attitude and lack of understanding about personal security issues would raise my risk level. Have you discussed procedures with your friend about how she should behave if things got scary? Since she has turned her safety over to you, do you trust her to obey your commands in a hairy situation, or is she likely to get spooked and try to scare off some menacing gangbanger by telling him that you have a gun?

People only alter their own beliefs when they are driven to it. Some people are driven to such changes almost exclusively by strong emotion. Those of us who value reason are moved to change by emotion too, but also by logic and evidence. Sounds like your friend might fall into the former category.

Your protection makes her feel safe. Without the fear, she has no impetus to revisit her beliefs. This leaves anyone in your position two alternatives: withdraw your protective services, and leave her to face the fear, or continue to do what you can to keep her safe, knowing all the while that the first chance she gets, she will vote to take away your ability to provide that protection. Such is the insidious nature of that character type. It's maddening to watch.
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Old January 15, 2009, 07:36 PM   #32
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Good post Dave85.
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Old January 15, 2009, 10:38 PM   #33
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Portland

Sad, I grew up in Portland, glad I'm down here on the coast now, big city sux. Astoria is pretty mellow. Main danger here is getting hit by a drunk driver.
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Old January 17, 2009, 10:01 AM   #34
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Anecdotes aside, poverty is the single most contributing factor to how likely you will be to get involved in a gang, commit a violent crime, spend time in prison, etc.

No. Multiple effects. Same cause. Poverty is one of the effects.


Statistics will lead you to some weird conclusions if you don't understand the phenomenon.
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Old January 17, 2009, 12:19 PM   #35
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Portland is dropping millions on green projects, artwork, new bike paths, and beautification... yet doesnt have a penny for youth programs, extra police, or schools.
as someone who bikes a lot...I can appreciate how much cycling infrastructure portland has established in recent years. on the other side, portland is up there when it comes to bikes stolen per year. so while they've made their city very "green" and bike friendly...there is an inordinate amount of crime.

Top 10 bike-theft cities

Kryptonite's complete Top 10 bike theft cities 2007:

1. Philadelphia 1,517,550 people (2000)
2. Chicago 2,836,659 (2007)
3. New York 8,274,527
4. San Francisco 799,183
5. Tucson, Portland (tie) 575,930 (2007)
7. Denver
8. New Haven, Conn.
9. Cambridge, Mass.
10. Austin, Texas

Kryptonite is a manufacturer of bike locks BTW.

So basically portland is 5th behind 4 other cities that have significantly larger populations.

IMO too much spending on green space, bike lanes/paths/infrastructure and too little on education, police and "real" social services. But what would you suspect from such a liberal "intellectual" city. They'd rather spend their money on things that makes them feel like they are more evolved individuals while closing their eyes to the real problems of society.

/rant off
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Old January 17, 2009, 12:45 PM   #36
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Quote:NO!, money is not the root of the problem----that's a knee jerk reaction and an easy out.


So a tyrannical capitalistic government and the Federal Reserve aren't out to do just one thing? MAKE MONEY?!?! Lemme guess, you still think our money is backed by gold? Everything that this country is about involves the mighty dollar, to say otherwise is ignorant...a knee jerk reaction would be to blame the problem on anything but the problem.

Last edited by #18indycolts; January 17, 2009 at 12:52 PM.
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Old January 17, 2009, 12:54 PM   #37
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First, on a personal note, it's nice to see a class of crime for which Detroit isn't top 10 ranked! Huzzah!

Second, (and this is really aimed at keeping this thread vaguely handgun related) does Smith & Wesson still make bicycles? Maybe if you had one of those, the thief would think twice; worried that either the owner owned some other products by that manufacturer, or that it was a cop bike.
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Old January 17, 2009, 01:24 PM   #38
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cycle

...sounds like Five Corners in New York; turn of the century. I wonder if things really have changed that much?
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Old January 17, 2009, 01:39 PM   #39
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...sounds like Five Corners in New York; turn of the century. I wonder if things really have changed that much?
The reality of the situation is "no...the world has not changed that much." Except for that fact it has actually gotten safer. The "idealic American Way" of the 40's and 50's only exists in movies. You were actually more likely to die violently in much of this country's past than you are in it's present.

The population has changed so the dynamic is a bit different but otherwise things have not changed that much. This country's freedoms have always come with a price. One of those prices is that there are all kinds of bad people along with the good. This has always been a country where the ability to defend one's self and their family has been of great value.

If you live in a country where a harsh government executes and deports anyone it finds undesirables you have less of a need for defense while walking the street. Here in this country you have always needed to care for your own personal safety...against both government and fellow citizen. That is why firearms are such a bio part of our culture.
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Old January 17, 2009, 01:53 PM   #40
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So a tyrannical capitalistic government and the Federal Reserve aren't out to do just one thing? MAKE MONEY?!?! Lemme guess, you still think our money is backed by gold? Everything that this country is about involves the mighty dollar, to say otherwise is ignorant...a knee jerk reaction would be to blame the problem on anything but the problem.
No, I know my money is not backed by gold.

You can't see the forest for the trees my friend.
I'll just say this, that money DOES NOT make people do the right thing----never has never will.
I know plenty of poor people that are great upstanding citizens and many that aren't.

Doesn't cost anything to watch your children and raise them properly, just time and effort----tired of the "I'm a thug because I'm poor" BS.
Contrary to what the bleeding heart liberals who are just after your votes and willing to OK any kind of behavior for your vote, MONEY isn't the problem.

Maybe not attending high school or drinking 40s with your friends in the parking lot or worrying about gold teeth and chains and air jordans or fathering multiple children with different mothers and then not supporting them either financially or emotionally etc. etc. are some of the problems.

No, it's easier to just blame the government than to take ANY personal responsibility ----that way, you can live your life the way you want and there is always someone else to blame.

Hey, I got an idea, why don't we just raise taxes to 75% and give these thugs a paycheck....lets BUY our safety...what ya think??

Give me a break!!!

Oh, and your right, most everything in this country does revolve around the almighty dollar, but your CHARACTER, ETHICS, and MORALITY should not!!!
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Last edited by dipper; January 17, 2009 at 01:59 PM.
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Old January 17, 2009, 02:20 PM   #41
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+ 1 Dipper / It does not cost alot of money to raise your kids with MORALS & PRIORITY'S PS STAY ARMED & SAFE
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Old January 17, 2009, 03:02 PM   #42
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Hey PBP,

I feel your pain. I lived in Portland for about 4 years spanning 1990 when the gangs were just getting big there, and were very out of control. I went to Madison H.S. and was there for a shooting and stabbing, as well as many-many beatings. I was robbed at knife-point, then at gunpoint within a year. Fun, Fun.

My brother works in Lloyd center and lives very close nearby! I don't think he would carry if the gun was free!

I thought that the city cleaned that stuff up in the late '90s. I guess not.
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Old January 17, 2009, 03:26 PM   #43
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Quote: Maybe not attending high school or drinking 40s with your friends in the parking lot or worrying about gold teeth and chains and air jordans or fathering multiple children with different mothers and then not supporting them either financially or emotionally etc. etc. are some of the problems.


Wow I'm impressed that you're not being too sterotypical... So in the history of America, there hasn't been any racial oppression? You need to watch something other than FOX news, or you probably think even that is unbiased, eh? The media spends billions on propaganda and you, like a LOT of americans are why they spend that kind of money...cuz apparently it works.
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Old January 17, 2009, 03:33 PM   #44
Brian Pfleuger
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history....racial oppression...


That's exactly what it is too. History. Ironic that we would still be talking about that 3 days before we inaugurate the first black president.


There are plenty of reasons things have happened IN THE PAST. The single largest problem today is lack of morality and personal responsibility. Oh, and using things like "racial oppression" as an excuse for lack of personal responsibility and morality.

This thread will be ending soon...
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Old January 17, 2009, 03:37 PM   #45
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That's exactly what it is too. History. Ironic that we would still be talking about that 3 days before we inaugurate the first black president.
There are plenty of reasons things have happened IN THE PAST. The single largest problem today is lack of morality and personal responsibility. Oh, and using things like "racial oppression" as an excuse for lack of personal responsibility and morality.
This thread will be ending soon...
Not before I give you a +1!


Quote:
Wow I'm impressed that you're not being too sterotypical... So in the history of America, there hasn't been any racial oppression? You need to watch something other than FOX news, or you probably think even that is unbiased, eh? The media spends billions on propaganda and you, like a LOT of americans are why they spend that kind of money...cuz apparently it works.
Stereotypes usually have some basis in reality, even if they are not true entirely and for every case. Why are violence portraying, Ho slappin, 40 drinking rappers so popular if they reflect nothing of certain segments of society? FOX news is fairer, even though they are more right leaning, than any other major news network. I love it when a liberal says fox news is soooo biased when they have BOTH acknowledged conservatives and Liberals on staff. I guess the only definition of fair liberals will recognize is when there are only unacknowledged liberals on staff, with nary a conservative voice to be found.
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Old January 17, 2009, 03:39 PM   #46
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This thread will be ending soon...
Actually, it just needs a few posts deleted. Most of the posts are on topic regarding the climate we live in and why a means of self defense is so needed these days. It just seems some people want to pretend skin pigmentation plays a role in societies ills. That is all well and good but society had the same disease when almost everyone was the same color. It is a matter of character and means. Money does not make you do good, but lack of it will make you do bad. A starving man is more likely to steal than one with food on his table. A man with no sense of self worth is more likely to join a gang than a child with a strong family support system (and parents working multiple jobs to survive have less time to spend with their children).

The end result is the same regardless of the cause though. We need to be able to defend our own.
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Old January 17, 2009, 03:45 PM   #47
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funny u guys didn't mention anything about the propaganda...no rebuttals? And all the oppression is over now because it all happened IN THE PAST! I guess having your head in the sand makes it ok to spout nonsense.
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Old January 17, 2009, 03:46 PM   #48
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Wow I'm impressed that you're not being too sterotypical... So in the history of America, there hasn't been any racial oppression? You need to watch something other than FOX news, or you probably think even that is unbiased, eh? The media spends billions on propaganda and you, like a LOT of americans are why they spend that kind of money...cuz apparently it works.
Yeah, right.

But you haven't addressed what I said, are YOU saying that what I wrote is not true??
You saying that Fox News (and others) are just a " vast right wing conspiracy" and that none of these people exists?
Were have I heard that before---Oh, yeah Hillary----EVERYTHING was a conspiracy.

Yeah, I've seen the racial oppression of today----section 8 housing that puts uneducated women that are to stupid to not get pregnant to 4 different men in houses that many working people can not afford.
I see the food stamps and free lunches and free health care and free day care etc. givin to people that don't appreciate it.
I see some women who don't work get their nails and hair done for big money while my wife who has worked hard all her life doesn't.
Yeah, real freakin oppressed.
Feel free to make up for people who made **** poor life choices if you want, there are plenty out there that will take it.
AND, don't assume that what I have said is limited to one race or ethnic background because it isn't.

I grew up with people that WISHED they were that freakin oppressed.

My family came here from other countries and I can tell you that my grandparents were not so warmly welcomed here at the time.
The Italians, Polish, Irish , Chinese, and others faced oppression too at one time or another in history.

Hey, by YOUR way of thinking, the JEWS could make a pretty good case too.

Wake up.
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Old January 17, 2009, 03:48 PM   #49
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Could you two take your racial oppression/propaganda debate to PM please?

There are some pretty good things being said and considered here regarding the reasons behind the societal ills that cause a need to carry...but those are not some of them. I actually agree with parts of both arguments but this is not the place to properly address them.
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Old January 17, 2009, 03:56 PM   #50
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It just seems some people want to pretend skin pigmentation plays a role in society's ills.

Racial and cultural variations in rates of crime and other social pathologies are among the more conspicuous phenomena in the world.


And while a starving man will steal, even a starving man won't kill you. Unless he's a vampire, I suppose. That is, you won't need a gun to deal with him.
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