The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old January 15, 2009, 03:28 PM   #1
Playboypenguin
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2006
Location: Great Pacific Northwest
Posts: 11,515
If ever there was a good time to have a CCW...

...it would be now in Portland.

We are pretty much in the middle of a gang war these days. It seems a gang decided to kill a prominent member of another gang at a funeral about a month ago and all hell has broken loose since then. Gang violence/shootings has increased dramatically in the past month.

Going to the Lloyd Center was always a dubious task but lately the gang presence there has exploded. Shootings have also skyrocketed there as well. There has been two shooting this month in the parking garage already.

I will not even go to some parts of town anymore. It will be awhile before I feel the need to go to Gresham. I do not even go to the big gunshop (Keith's) out there anymore.

Driving down MLK in N. Portland really is getting scary too. It is like the east side is lined with groups from one gang and the west side by groups from another. When driving down the middle you can really feel the stare down going on and it makes you wonder when the stares and shouts of insults will turn into something worse and you will be caught in the middle.

I have also noticed a lot more suspicious activities downtown at night. We used to go out and see almost no one on the street after 11pm but now the corners are filled with groups of young people standing around for hours.

A good friend of ours lives in N. Portland in some new luxury condos. When she bought them the area was undergoing a revival, but now the gangs have taken back over according to her. She is even afraid to walk her dog or go to the bus stop. I have had to go over twice now and escort her to work and back while her car was in the shop because she is afraid to ride the bus like she used to do.

I just cannot believe some people will live in these circumstances and still be against average citizens having a means of defense. The friend I have been escorting to work is very anti-gun, but it is funny how quickly her attitude changed when she thought she was in danger. She wanted me and my gun there all of the sudden.

Last edited by Playboypenguin; January 15, 2009 at 03:45 PM.
Playboypenguin is offline  
Old January 15, 2009, 03:48 PM   #2
The Great Mahoo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 3, 2008
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 1,268
Its a shame that things have taken a turn for the worse, there. It's too bad that things can get so bad at all, let alone that people are willing to put up with it and still be against personal protection rights to carry. Even when up to their neck in potential trouble themselves, they think more guns in the city will just make things worse.

I hope everything goes well for you and things get straightened out soon. In the mean time, stay calm, stay armed, stay safe.
The Great Mahoo is offline  
Old January 15, 2009, 03:49 PM   #3
sserdlihc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2008
Location: S.C.
Posts: 1,434
I have been reading about this in a lot of urban areas. Does it seem that the Mayor, City Council or LE are being proactive when dealing with the gang problem? Or are they just turning a blind eye to it? I don't know how the city government is set up in Portland but you should be able to attend a city council metting and voice your concerns. Atleast you can be proactive concerning the problem, when others aren't.

Other than that, I would say that you are right about having a CCW. If the City government won't protect it's law abiding citizens...well it is left upon the citizen him/herself.
__________________
Familiarity breeds contempt, while rarity wins admiration. Aupleius
If someone doesn't like you, that's their problem! Milton Childress
sserdlihc is offline  
Old January 15, 2009, 03:54 PM   #4
#18indycolts
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 3, 2006
Location: Indpls
Posts: 1,159
that sux, my sister lives in portland and i love it out there. I always felt safer there than visiting detroit or chicago.
#18indycolts is offline  
Old January 15, 2009, 03:54 PM   #5
Smaug
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 4, 2004
Location: Northern Illinois
Posts: 3,179
That's a good story with the escorting. Next time you need to escort here, why not bring along the paperwork and a postage-paid envelope for CCW permit? Maybe a hand-done coupon for a couple shooting lessons from PBP?
Smaug is offline  
Old January 15, 2009, 03:54 PM   #6
Playboypenguin
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2006
Location: Great Pacific Northwest
Posts: 11,515
Quote:
Does it seem that the Mayor, City Council or LE are being proactive when dealing with the gang problem?
They are trying but the bad economy is making it really hard. How do you pay more officers and liaisons when the budget is being slashed. Then add on that there are just being more and more poor teens on the streets and it snowballs. Money really is the root of the problem.
Playboypenguin is offline  
Old January 15, 2009, 03:58 PM   #7
Playboypenguin
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2006
Location: Great Pacific Northwest
Posts: 11,515
Quote:
that sux, my sister lives in portland and i love it out there. I always felt safer there than visiting detroit or chicago.
We are still not in the same league as places like Birmingham, AL or anything...but things have gotten a lot worse than normal.
Playboypenguin is offline  
Old January 15, 2009, 03:58 PM   #8
Brian Pfleuger
Staff
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Central, Southern NY, USA
Posts: 18,791
Quote:
I just cannot believe some people will live in these circumstances...
Frankly, I'd end that sentence right there.
__________________
Still happily answering to the call-sign Peetza.
---
The problem, as you so eloquently put it, is choice.
-The Architect
-----
He is no fool who gives what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose.
-Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old January 15, 2009, 04:08 PM   #9
#18indycolts
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 3, 2006
Location: Indpls
Posts: 1,159
being able to legally carry should ease the mind, right?
#18indycolts is offline  
Old January 15, 2009, 04:55 PM   #10
Bauer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 5, 2008
Location: Washington State
Posts: 195
Is it just a coincidence that a few MLK ways that I have seen seem to be located around lower class, gang ridden, areas?
Bauer is offline  
Old January 15, 2009, 05:13 PM   #11
MrNiceGuy
Junior member
 
Join Date: August 16, 2008
Posts: 919
i was just in portland for a week

i did allot of walking and picture taking, almost exclusively at night till 3 or 4 am, in the "shady" areas.... problem free

honestly, i havent noticed anything out of the ordinary in portland nor do i feel any less safe
MrNiceGuy is offline  
Old January 15, 2009, 05:15 PM   #12
Playboypenguin
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2006
Location: Great Pacific Northwest
Posts: 11,515
Quote:
honestly, i havent noticed anything out of the ordinary in portland nor do i feel any less safe
Try living here for awhile.
Quote:
i did allot of walking and picture taking, almost exclusively at night till 3 or 4 am, in the "shady" areas.... problem free
What "shady areas" would these have been? What would you be taking pics of in these "shady areas?"

That pic you posted is nice, but definitely not taken from any place shady. That is right downtown on the east side of the river.
Playboypenguin is offline  
Old January 15, 2009, 05:25 PM   #13
B.N.Real
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 22, 2008
Posts: 4,082
Time to bring our troops home from Iraq and send them downtown.
B.N.Real is offline  
Old January 15, 2009, 05:27 PM   #14
Playboypenguin
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2006
Location: Great Pacific Northwest
Posts: 11,515
Quote:
Time to bring our troops home from Iraq and send them downtown.
Portland is one of those weird cities where the downtown is actually pretty safe. It is the surrounding areas and suburbs that are bad. Not all the suburbs. Most are nice. It is pretty much a few select areas.
Playboypenguin is offline  
Old January 15, 2009, 05:29 PM   #15
dipper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 6, 2008
Posts: 895
Quote:
Money really is the root of the problem.
NO!, money is not the root of the problem----that's a knee jerk reaction and an easy out.
The "problem" goes much deeper than money and involves how our society has changed in the last 50 years or so.
Sorry PBP but I couldn't resist.....MANY people complain about lack of money when the problem COULD be addressed right in our own homes for next to nothing.
I could go on but I won't.....we all need just to be honest and take a good hard look at what we are doing to our society and what we a LETTING others do to us.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------
"It is better to die on your feet than live on your knees"
EMILIANO ZAPATA SALAZAR
dipper is offline  
Old January 15, 2009, 05:38 PM   #16
B.N.Real
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 22, 2008
Posts: 4,082
Unfortunatley,right where one of your good friends has moved to.

The bad thing is,even if she gets a weapon,she will need training and a complete overhaul of her gun use mindset to be able to defend herself.

And,if she is an attractive,young woman,she is a prime target for the very criminals that do this "life sucks,let me kill/rape someone to feel better about it." garbage.

I once worked with a stunning young girl named Heather that one night coming back from a nightclub in D.C. was attacked by several thugs.

Classic carjack deal.

Her boyfriend was killed and she was shot as well.

And when she was on the ground,they shot her several more times just for good measure.

She survived.

I only saw her once after that,about a year later.

I could only look at her and smile that she was alive standing there.

All that for a 'blanking' car.
B.N.Real is offline  
Old January 15, 2009, 05:38 PM   #17
MrNiceGuy
Junior member
 
Join Date: August 16, 2008
Posts: 919
Quote:
What "shady areas" would these have been? What would you be taking pics of in these "shady areas?"
northeast portland mostly, trying to find images that most suburbanites rarely see or atleast try to caputre every day sights in a new light

Quote:
That pic you posted is nice, but definitely not taken from any place shady. That is right downtown on the east side of the river.
naw, that's the token portland shot
every weekend photographer to go through there has practically the same shot
it's back behind omzi, go under the bridge next to the homeless camp where they're doing all of the construction.
even at 3am, the homeless camp was still hoppin
MrNiceGuy is offline  
Old January 15, 2009, 05:39 PM   #18
Playboypenguin
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2006
Location: Great Pacific Northwest
Posts: 11,515
Dipper, sent you a PM.
Playboypenguin is offline  
Old January 15, 2009, 05:41 PM   #19
Brian Pfleuger
Staff
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Central, Southern NY, USA
Posts: 18,791
Quote:
money is not the root of the problem

I have to agree. I've know stone broke people living in squalor that are some of the most giving, honest, compassionate people I've met in my life.

Morals. You either have them or you don't. Good people don't and won't do bad things, bad people will. It really is that simple.
__________________
Still happily answering to the call-sign Peetza.
---
The problem, as you so eloquently put it, is choice.
-The Architect
-----
He is no fool who gives what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose.
-Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old January 15, 2009, 05:42 PM   #20
Playboypenguin
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2006
Location: Great Pacific Northwest
Posts: 11,515
Quote:
northeast portland mostly, trying to find images that most suburbanites rarely see or atleast try to caputre every day sights in a new light
NE is not dangerous. You need to get a lot further from downtown for it to get bad. The homeless stay close to the city for that very reason. They do not feel safe in NoPo, Gresham, or Aloha. I am at those camps all the time. I used to work for Streetlight and I still do outreach to homeless youths.
Playboypenguin is offline  
Old January 15, 2009, 05:49 PM   #21
Playboypenguin
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2006
Location: Great Pacific Northwest
Posts: 11,515
Quote:
Morals. You either have them or you don't. Good people don't and won't do bad things, bad people will. It really is that simple.
Anecdotes aside, poverty is the single most contributing factor to how likely you will be to get involved in a gang, commit a violent crime, spend time in prison, etc.

That is just the reality of the situation. To try and pretend otherwise is like trying to pretend strict gun laws deal with illegal gun use. It is self delusion for personal reasons.
Playboypenguin is offline  
Old January 15, 2009, 05:51 PM   #22
cjw3cma
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 9, 2007
Location: Chiloquin, OR
Posts: 217
Soylent Green

Ya all need a Soylent Green manufacturing plant in Portland.

Playboy - see where I live? Not the best reputation in southern Oregon.
__________________
The Constitution shall never be construed … to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms. – Samuel Adams
cjw3cma is offline  
Old January 15, 2009, 06:17 PM   #23
Brian Pfleuger
Staff
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Central, Southern NY, USA
Posts: 18,791
Quote:
Anecdotes aside, poverty is the single most contributing factor...
I would assert that poverty is the catalyst. Morals are the surface on which that catalyst acts.

Good people living in poverty do good things. Bad people living in poverty do bad things.


Anyway, not meaning to hi-jack your thread. Carry on.
__________________
Still happily answering to the call-sign Peetza.
---
The problem, as you so eloquently put it, is choice.
-The Architect
-----
He is no fool who gives what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose.
-Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old January 15, 2009, 06:20 PM   #24
Hirlau
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 1, 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 296
Show Me The Gun Connection ?

We can debate city gang problems all day and just accomplish nothing. If poverty was the "single most contributing factor " money would be found and the problem solved.

Lets spare all the "self delusion for personal reasons"
AND

Talk about firearms
Hirlau is offline  
Old January 15, 2009, 06:25 PM   #25
oneounceload
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2008
Location: N. Central Florida
Posts: 8,518
Lack of education, drugs and no parents cause more issues than just being "poor"

The South has traditionally been poor in lots of areas. Years ago, black or white, there wasn't this "gangsta" attitude at the levels we see today. IMO, society has gone downhill quickly since LBJ's "Great Society" and all of the subsequent gov't hand-out/take care of you mentality.

OK, off my rant
oneounceload is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.11791 seconds with 7 queries