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Old January 14, 2009, 04:50 PM   #1
preston
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florida firearm denial

hello to all, my first post, although I've been reading and searching the forum and archive. my situation is a denial for a firearm purchase last week by FDLE.
they are a POC for the NICS here in florida. anyway, as soon as I got the denial the gunshop lady gave me an appeals form and I went to the county sheriffs office and got my prints and sent the form to FDLE. According to usps.com the form was delivered on Monday this week. I think the form said 21 days response time. The deputy that did the prints of course checked his databases and found nothing to deny. I've have 2 questions for those reading if you have any input I would appreciate it. 1. is FDLE usually prompt? the deputy did state to me that there has been an increase in problems with delays and denials for purchases of firearms and also for CCW applications recently. anybody have recent experiences they have heard of on FDLE response time? 2. If FDLE does seem to be dragging things out is it ok for a person in a POC state to directly contact the NICS appeals office and open a 2nd front on getting the issue resolved? Thanks for any inputs.
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Old January 22, 2009, 07:33 PM   #2
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Seems to me I read that on the second app if they deny you based on prints they must issue and investigate based on other info supplied; posted by a construction worker whose prints were pretty messed up.
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Old January 22, 2009, 08:13 PM   #3
Tommy Vercetti
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government personnel have been called many things but I doubt seriously that prompt was one of them
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Old January 26, 2009, 10:30 AM   #4
preston
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well FDLE has had the appeal for 10 working days counting today and I contacted the FBI last week and was told by them that I could appeal directly to the appeal team there so they have had the information for 5 days counting today. FDLE states 21 working days, FBI states 5 working days. Perhaps I may hear something during the next week, perhaps not.
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Old January 26, 2009, 10:38 AM   #5
hogdogs
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So it was a full denial, not just a "pending approval"? Did you use your SS # on the 4473?
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Old January 26, 2009, 11:41 AM   #6
preston
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technically in florida it is called a *non-approval", at least on the form I was given. but to answer your question, yes, SS# was included.
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Old January 26, 2009, 12:05 PM   #7
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I get Delayed every time. I have a CCW and have appied for Upin number. Sent in the paper work on the Upin in Oct. of last year. Still got a letter that the paper work was recieved. Nothing since. Called NICs they said it could up a year before i get it. So good luck.
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Old January 31, 2009, 09:48 PM   #8
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Update got my Upin today. Took forever but i got it.
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Old January 31, 2009, 10:09 PM   #9
Any .45
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Happens to me all the time I have a very common name amongst Hispanics and there are a few bad guys out there with my name. I even have problems when I travel outside of the country and try to come back home I always deal with customs, get use to it until you get your Upin apply for it, if you haven't. Call the NCIS 850-410-8139, ask them for the packet and get your prints done fast, its been since october and I still haven't gotten upin number. So I would suggest you do it cause here in florida its getting crazy.
Good luck my friend.
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Old November 22, 2009, 11:39 PM   #10
RonaldHQ
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I know this is an old thread but..

same thing just happened to me and I happened upon this forum while trying to figure out how to solve my problem.

background:
I am in my 40s. I was arrested & charged & case-dismissed in my early 20s.
I am a resident of Florida. I am on my 2nd CCW renewal. I successfully
purchased 4 handguns and 1 shotgun (all in Florida) in my 30s.

Last week, I went to a different FFL'd Shop to purchase a 308 rifle. I received a "non approval" on the NICS check. I did submit my SSN for NICS check.
The FDLE Appeal Non-Approval Form looks to me like they only want to confirm I am the guy that is being non-approved; anyway, I will do that of course.

I plan to apply for the UPIN this week too and I called the telephone number and a recording told me the average disposition for the UPIN Application is 124 days.
Also, the average FBI Appeal is also 124 days in another recorded phone call.

Another bad part of this is: I paid $1,200 for the rifle and FFL Dealer Form
says that if I am "non-approved" status for 30 days, then he keeps a 20%
restocking fee on the rifle I cannot have.
I know now that I am looking at 5+ months for this to work out with associated bureaucratic databases.
When the FDLE denies me again, I will lose $240 to the FFL Dealer.

I am also wondering will the FDLE cancel my CCW and come to the house to remove the firearms purchased in my name?
On my FDLE Appeal, should I even show them receipts for the Florida purchased
handguns and a copy of my CCW? (will this make it go from bad to worse?)

Also, where does one get FD-258 Fingerprint Cards for the UPIN Application?
[My county, Collier County, in Florida, all police websites and calls to them made it clear that they will NOT supply me with one for the fingerprinting.]
(I saw someone selling the cards from a website; $50 for 25 cards.)

I wish this non-approval-problem happened earlier in my life when I purchased a cheaper firearm. ): Today, I even thought about going to WalMart to purchase (and be denied approval) a Ruger 22 Rifle just to see how the FDLE responds to me owning two 9mm pistols and a CCW, and then denying me a 22 rifle. And I do want a Ruger 22 Rifle too, but even if this works out in the end, then I worry I will be entered into a WalMart Firearms Database for permanent non-approvals. Maybe I just cannot have a 308 rifle. I don't know.

Anyway, if anyone has good and reasonable suggestions, I will try them; and, I will let this forum know of the final disposition of my situation for it's knowledge-based archive for future searches on similar conditions -- that is how I found this forum. (:
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Old November 23, 2009, 12:12 AM   #11
Atroxus
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Quote:
Another bad part of this is: I paid $1,200 for the rifle and FFL Dealer Form
says that if I am "non-approved" status for 30 days, then he keeps a 20%
restocking fee on the rifle I cannot have.
I know now that I am looking at 5+ months for this to work out with associated bureaucratic databases.
When the FDLE denies me again, I will lose $240 to the FFL Dealer.
This seems pretty sketchy to me. How can they justify charging a re-stocking fee for an item that never left the store? It's not like he can't sell it to someone else for the same price.
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Old November 23, 2009, 12:32 AM   #12
RonaldHQ
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The non-local FFL Dealer and I attempted to transfer the rifle through an FFL Shop in my location. The FFL Shop does not want to hold the rifle for many months.
The FFL Dealer will want money from me for making the rifle non-available to potential buyers -- I understand that too. It's the bitter-icing on this bitter-cake.
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Old December 1, 2009, 04:40 PM   #13
diveflyfun
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Your FFL is doing you wrong!

They (FBI/NICS) have 3 working days to approve or deny a "non-approval".

If the 3 working days pass without a decision it is then up to the FFL dealer to make the "yes" or "no" call on the transfer.

This is chiseled in stone so, in short, your FFL is lying to you (big surprise there)

Also, don't take it personal that you received a "non-approval" on the initial background. There intentionally doing that a lot now, even to those with perfect records. The reasons are varied, from "common names", "extending the cooling off period", "being extra cautious" to "the system being slow or down".

The fact is, the NICS has everything right there to make the decision...I think the problem is that like most government systems it just doesn't always work.
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Old December 1, 2009, 04:54 PM   #14
jg0001
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Quote:
and also for CCW applications recently
I know someone in New Jersey (*wink*) that got their Florida concealed permit inside of 3 weeks in Nov '09 -- regular citizen, plain paper documents, etc. Seemed pretty quick to me, almost surprisingly so.
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Old December 1, 2009, 10:33 PM   #15
RonaldHQ
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November 23rd 2009, I mailed in a completed Non-Approval Appeal Form to the FDLE (Florida Department of Law Enforcement); the Form says they've 21 days to respond with another non-approval or approval. I mailed them certified mail with return receipt. Today is December 1 2009 and I still have not received the return receipt back. Now I wish I used Priority Mail with tracking.

I also completed and mailed (return receipt) an FBI Background Check (costing $18) to the FBI on the same day (23 NOV 2009). I have not received the return receipt mail yet on that too.

Yesterday, November 30 2009, I mailed (Priority with Tracking) a completed VAF (Voluntary Appeal File) Application with supporting evidence and a completed FD-258 Fingerprint Card, etc..
The FBI telephone recording says they average a 124 day processing time from when they receive the Application.

BTW, I called the FBI at 304-625-5590 and requested the FD-258 Fingerprint Card. I asked for 10 cards. They mailed 2. I received them on 30 NOV 2009; hence, I immediately completed the VAF Application.

The FFL Dealer holding the rifle told me he will hold it for 30 days or until the FDLE Appeal Process completes. If the FDLE non-approves me again, then I will have to offer the FFL Dealer holding-the-rifle money to continue to hold it or start buying stuff in his store and hope he will hold the rifle; he sells archery equipment mostly.

Since my non-approval, I spent many evenings reviewing my 1988 possession charge (of the drug called "ecstasy"). In 1991, a Harris County (Texas) judge signed paperwork dismissing the charge and withdrawing my guilty plea upon my successfully completing my probation (called deferred adjudication).
I have also reviewed laws in both states and federal law and I am confident that I am now good to go.
I have also read many forums for intel too.

The above paragraph is more information than I publically want to part with, but I am almost anonymous here and I will release that information so others can learn from it. Anyway, that said, in 1988, I was about a year out of the Army (11B-C2); Light Infantry Dragon Gunner -- no combat during those Reagan years. I had no education and was still as dumb as when I joined.
Anyway, I got a lot smarter during my probation years. I went to a university and completed two degrees, and then later, I felt (as I do now) that I had something (hard earned) to lose from my bad behavior. Before I got married, I told my wife of my naughty-past because I knew it would surface at times and she is as straight as an arrow.
Also, I have always felt grateful for the 2nd chance (the probation) I was given.
I have read many stories of less fortunate persons screwed for life over less. I know it is not a fair system, and in 1988, I witnessed Blacks and Hispanics in the Harris County Jail not getting such a deal as this. I am white. I also witnessed other whites getting this deal. Anyway, I know it is not fair. Also, I did have a Black lawyer; no kidding. LOL. He did zero; the DA immediately offered this deal and I accepted it and transferred the probation to another state where I went to college. "Thank you" to the Americans who gave me another opportunity to walk to the good path.

Replying to the CCW comment, my wife (now a US Citizen) had a greencard during our Florida CCW applications. She got hers in a few weeks. I got mine about 7 months later and a few telephone calls from the FDLE. LOL.
During the time, I was kind of surprised that greencard holders could purchase firearms in the US. I always wondered why those crazy muslims didn't buy their weapons here.

Oh, BTW, while my wife knows my past, but my children do not. I have read opinions and thought it best to raise them to follow a good path in life as I want them to 'know' that I have done. I have really good kids.
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Old December 2, 2009, 07:28 AM   #16
blume357
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You are not alone...

10 years before you got caught being stupid... I was in pretty much the same boat. I got convicted but only had to pay a fine.... but was convicted of manufacturing Marijuana... which I am sure was a felony in S.C. in 1978.

Seems somewhere later the state law changed this to a misdemeanor.... I always considered my self a convicted felon, still do. A lawyer has told me I was, so has a judge who dismissed me from jury duty. The organization that decided I wasn't was the S.C. state police, S.L.E.D. when I applied for a concealed weapons permit. When I applied for a Florida Permit I listed the conviction and included a letter explaining that according to S.C. I could own and carry concealed a gun. Florida requested certified paper work from the court stating this was now a misdemeanor. Lucky the court was in the next county over and it only cost me about 4 hours to get this.

The good thing about having a CWP in S.C. is it bypasses the NICS back ground check. I'd bet anybody a couple dollars that if a FFL had to call my information in I'd get denied.

I hate to step in it... but why not have your wife go over to the FFL and buy the rifle? (I bet that'll throw red flags up for the internet police to jump on.)
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Old December 2, 2009, 10:44 AM   #17
RonaldHQ
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I asked him that too (about wife purchase). He said that would be a "straw deal". I know on the ATF Form 4473 that you must state that you are not buying the firearm for another individual. As lawyers & DAs say, "they could make hay with that". I also have a receipt with my name on it and that 20% restocking fee term listed too. It also has the serial # of the rifle.
Remember, this FFL Dealer is a transaction party only; I bought the rifle from an internet dealer and he has the money now.

Anyway, I want to do this the correct paperwork-way and not drawl any problems to my household.

I have read in other forums that some people do not want their fingerprints listed with FBI or government and I totally understand that and agree with that. The VAF Application states that "I want" my information (such as fingerprints) in their database forever. I do not care because the Army and DEA and Harris County and I am sure many others already have mine forever; and I am closer to dead in this world than alive, so I do not care about that part for myself.
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Old December 4, 2009, 06:54 AM   #18
blume357
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I agree...

and also figured the FFL would not go for the wife buying the gun because of all the 'paper work' that has been done.

Same with the finger print thing.... in theory you don't want the gov. to know anymore than they already do... but in reality, if they want they can get all they need for what ever they want.... I'd do the paper work thing so that you don't have the same problem in the future... and so the gun cost a little more.. and took a lot more time to get.... it will just remind you of how difficult bureaucracy can be at times.
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Old January 28, 2010, 02:31 AM   #19
RonaldHQ
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I got the rifle (AR-10) yesterday.

I called the FDLE twice; the woman there was polite but not helpful.
She told me the FBI cleared me in two weeks. She told me that the FDLE
was doing their own investigation and the holidays delayed them.
Whatever.
The FBI -- two weeks.
The FDLE -- two months.

Anyway, the FDLE mailed me a letter that is good for one transaction only.
I am glad the transaction FFL Dealer did not scam me and return the rifle
to the original dealer. I looked the rifle over and it looks good; I won't get
a chance to shoot with it until Spring or Summer, but that's ok.

I have an AR-10; Yippie!
DPMS LR-308 Classic ($1,100 + tax)

Probably in Spring or Summer, I will go attempt to purchase that Ruger 22
Rifle from Wal-mart and see if I am approved or non-approved.
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Old January 28, 2010, 06:57 AM   #20
blume357
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Man when I first looked at this thread I thought it was new...

january 14th... then saw it was 2009....then revisted in November of last year...

Glad you got your rifle RonaldHQ.... even if it was one long wait....

I wonder what happened to the original poster Preston?
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Old January 31, 2010, 05:47 AM   #21
RonaldHQ
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Further inspection reveals that this rifle is not the one I purchased.

Further inspection reveals that this rifle is not the one I purchased.

I purchased the DPMS LR-308C (Model: RFLR-C). I specifically wanted the rifle chambered for 7.62 NATO as DPMS's website and agent communicated to me.

This rifle's barrel is clearly stamped that it is chambered for .308 only.
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Old January 31, 2010, 06:49 AM   #22
blume357
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In the words of Dino..."Ru-OH"

then again I always thought 308 was 7.62 nato...
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Old February 6, 2010, 11:19 AM   #23
HeyKalish
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I too got a Non-Approval status today.

I am a 20 year old Caucasian male with only two things on my record:

An old Petit Theft in 2009 worth less than $50.00. Case Closed, No Contest, Ajud. Withheld.

Speeding Ticket 9/22/09 pled not guilty, waiting on the court date.

I was trying to buy a WASR-10 and when I went to pick it up today, I was declined. I had purchased two firearms since both instances on my record with no issue; One was a Saiga 7.62 and a Mosin-Nagant.

I offered the FFL to pay for a second background check, because it could have been possible that the person on the other end of the phone might have entered the wrong SSN. They refused to re-run the background and gave me the non-approval appeal form and sent me on my merry way.

I am going to send it in overnight on Tuesday. Does anyone know how long it would take? What caused this to happen?
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Old February 6, 2010, 11:50 AM   #24
To3T@g
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I to have a "stupid" mark on my adolesent record for possetion of marijuana. every time i buy a gun i have to wait three to five days to pick it up,but have never actually been deny'd. its a pain in the @#$ but i guess there going to punish me for the rest of my life for my youthfull mistakes. I thought it was legal to buy a firearm for a relitive or family member as a gift! am i wrong?
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