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Old January 8, 2009, 12:44 AM   #1
danweasel
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"I'd rather be caught with it than caught without it."

I realize that this is going to be a can of worms. I'll post it anyways.

So, I have a buddy who lives in a really bad neighborhood. He is not eligible for a CCP where he lives (due to stuff that he was semi-involved with 12 or so years ago). He also carries a concealed pistol and has for many years. He is a decent family man and a good guy (for the sake of this post it would be nice if you could just trust me on this but it's not neccessary I suppose) and he has never got into any trouble over the gun although he told me he has had to draw it at least 10 times. At least twice was in his home. I don't know if he can own no pistols or just not get a CCP. Anyways, I don't really have a question I just was wondering what to make of this and would like to hear some opinions on it. I guess one question would be what can I say to make him even consider the consequences of carrying illegally?

By the way, the title of this post is what he says is an unoffical motto of sorts where he lives.

EDIT: This question is most likely out of line... If it was you, If tommorow your permit got revoked would you stop carrying if you felt you where in danger? By revoked, I mean possibly for getting into a bar fight and having a bad lawyer or something along those lines. This is incidentally NOT the case with my friend. I don't expect anyone to put an answer ti this out there on the internet. Just something to think about I guess.

Thanks,

Dan
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Last edited by danweasel; January 8, 2009 at 12:48 AM. Reason: added the last part.
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Old January 8, 2009, 01:20 AM   #2
troy_mclure
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better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

i WILL do WHATEVER it takes to protect myself/family.
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Old January 8, 2009, 01:39 AM   #3
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Hmm, I'd probably go with no... I know your family is the biggest priority but you're not gonna do your kids any good in jail/prison, (yes i know that not having a gun could potentially eliminate that issue but...) there are other non lethal alternatives (yes i know they suck, but you'll be legal and it'll drastically increase your survival for MOST situations) So i'd say, Screw the felony.... Swallow your pride and buy a Kick-ass Tazer gun that has some range on it. (Assuming that's not illegal too)

Just my 2 cents. But then again i'm not married, I have no kids, and I am totally allowed to have a CPL so i can't say for sure. I don't want to sound like a dandy but if it was my friend i'd tell him that i care about him and don't want him to go to the hot house, and i'd encourage him to check his options.
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Old January 8, 2009, 02:08 AM   #4
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Well, it is our right to bear arms peroid. That was before the ATF and state laws requiring Conceal Pistol License. All the RED tape is for the birds and we have to abide by it while criminals don't and if cought the criminal gets a slap on the hand, and trust me the BG will still carry.

So bottom line CARRY IT and screw the RED tape reverse protection. If you had to pull it out then you must carry it. I would only pull it for one reason and that is to put someone down and i don't shoot legs and arms.
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Old January 8, 2009, 02:36 AM   #5
AZAK
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Dan you are talking interior Alaska at this time of year?

Get the man a squirt gun. Super Soaker for the home, something smaller for CC. A couple of shots of H20 to the eyes, -50 F first blink eyelids/lashes stuck together, BG is effectively blinded.

That will get him by until break up, and then it's a whole nother ball of wax!

Good Luck! I can understand your concern. Didn't realize that Fairbanks was that dangerous!
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Old January 8, 2009, 02:53 AM   #6
Sixer
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AZAK, thats life on the streets in Juno... kill or be killed, lol.

Seriously though, I have to agree with JESUS. I mean I literally HAVE to agree with him because he's JESUS. I see his point.

On the other hand, this guy has been in 10 situations that already required him to pull his gun, and he's still around to tell about it. If it was me in his shoes, I wouldnt carry A gun... I'd be carrying TWO.

For better or worse, I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
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Old January 8, 2009, 07:14 AM   #7
alloy
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some penalties and the crimes/charges associated with gun violations are more severe with a permit than they are without.
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Old January 8, 2009, 08:45 AM   #8
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Honestly, if what you presented here is all you know, I'm not sure you know *enough* about the situation to give him any sort of counsel. But from what you did describe, it certainly sounds like your buddy figures he's already got his own situation all worked out and that he's not likely to do anything differently. I'd suggest that the best thing for you to do might just be to keep your mouth shut.
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Old January 8, 2009, 08:58 AM   #9
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You could tell him that he won't be able to protect his family from a prison cell. In response to your second question, I would not carry if my permit was revoked for some reason.
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Old January 8, 2009, 10:02 AM   #10
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Not being eligible to Conceal Carry is very different in many places from not being allowed to own.

1. Having to draw 10 times in recent memory as a civilian means one should be more aware of their surroundings and practice avoidance much better.

2. If he can own there is no reason he cannot defend his family in his home.

3. You have no RIGHT to carry. You think you do but the SCOTUS does not and their answer goes with regards to the COTUS no matter how we feel on the matter. The law is clear on the matter and your refusing to acknowledge the facts of the matter are irrelevant.

4. How well will he be able to protect his family from a jail cell?

5. The odds of having the weapon be found are far greater than having to use it. Car Accident, Heart Attack, Flashing in front of the wrong people, telling people you carry illegally who then post it on the internet or tell others or sell the information to get themselves out of deeper personal trouble to them... All of these mean the odds of being found out are far greater than really needing it if you behave accordingly. If found out then refer back to point 4.
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Old January 8, 2009, 10:21 AM   #11
zxcvbob
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What's the penalty there for concealed weapon w/o a license? In Minnesota, it's just a gross misdemeanor. That'll mess up your life if caught and convicted, but not permanently like a felony.

(I thought Alaska didn't require a permit -- almost like Vermont)
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Old January 8, 2009, 10:31 AM   #12
big_bang
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Does your friend live in AK, and if so why would he need a CCP? If not, ignore my post.
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Old January 8, 2009, 10:32 AM   #13
SoldiersSon
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My train of thought was that since Alaska doesn't require a license to conceal, that what we were actually talking about was that he isn't eligible to own a firearm.

Did I read too much into it?
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Old January 8, 2009, 10:33 AM   #14
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Dan is he in Alaska? If so:

Quote:
Legal Overview: Right-To-Carry Law Type: Shall Issue. No permit required carrying concealed in Alaska. HB 102, signed by the Governor on June 11, 2003 changes Alaska Statute 11.61.220 to allow anyone 21 or older, who may legally carry a firearm to also carry it concealed without having to obtain a special permit. The possession of a firearm at courthouses, schoolyards, bars and domestic violence shelters will continue to be prohibited. Alaskans may still obtain a concealed carry permit if they want reciprocity with other states or want to continue to be exempt from background checks when purchasing firearms.
Note "Legally Carry a firearm"

But to answer your question.........Yes
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Old January 8, 2009, 10:56 AM   #15
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I generally concur with Musketeer. I live in the People's Democratic Republic of Illinois, and apparently exist outside the protection of this Second Amendment thing I hear so much about from citizens of the United States , so I have no personal frame of reference on CC. If he is breaking the law by carrying, then that choice is personal, and he must weigh the consequences of that decision. Does he carry, potentially needing it to defend life/family and risking jail, or does he not carry? If I'm in urban Detroit or East St. Louis, I might risk the chance. If I'm in suburban Illinois, I might not.

He has other options: if he is legally able to own, but not carry, he might be able to transport legally in his vehicle and carry a Taser on his person. Any deterrence is better than none. It might be much slower for him to retrieve from a vehicle and engage in a SHTF scenario, but the likelihood of him needing that firearm is lower than the possibility of him getting a stay in the hoosegow for illegally carrying.

I appreciate the sentiment of "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6", but the odds of one are greater than the other. No option is perfect in this case, and discretion is typically the deciding factor. YMMV. I'm not a legal eagle.
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Last edited by Flyover Country; January 8, 2009 at 10:59 AM. Reason: Clarification
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Old January 8, 2009, 11:02 AM   #16
Brian Pfleuger
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If he has "had to" pull his gun 10 times, he is one of the following:

1) A bad judge of when he needs to pull a gun

2) NOT a decent family man and hanging in places he shouldn't, most likely for reasons he shouldn't

3) Terribly ignorant and unaware. His ignorance takes him to places he shouldn't be and his lack of awareness keeps him from avoiding bad situations in those places.
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Old January 8, 2009, 05:36 PM   #17
onthejon55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peetzakilla
If he has "had to" pull his gun 10 times, he is one of the following:

1) A bad judge of when he needs to pull a gun

2) NOT a decent family man and hanging in places he shouldn't, most likely for reasons he shouldn't

3) Terribly ignorant and unaware. His ignorance takes him to places he shouldn't be and his lack of awareness keeps him from avoiding bad situations in those places.
:barf:
just because he is willing to protect himself unlike you does NOT make him a bad person.
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Old January 8, 2009, 05:39 PM   #18
Rachen
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Just like:

It's better to have one and not need it, than needing it and not having one.

Period.
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Old January 8, 2009, 06:08 PM   #19
Wildalaska
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Quote:
He is a decent family man and a good guy
Not if he's carrying a gun he's not. Hope he gets locked up. I'm sick of the gun crime up here and if this guy has a prior felony, hope they lay a felon in possession charge on him.

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Old January 8, 2009, 06:28 PM   #20
Recon7
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Quote:
If he has "had to" pull his gun 10 times, he is one of the following:

1) A bad judge of when he needs to pull a gun
You don't understand man, sometimes somebody cuts you off and the middle finger just won't do.

Quote:
I have a buddy who lives in a really bad neighborhood.
He needs a ryder moving truck not a Ruger. I'm sure your felon pal was innocent, but maybe he should lay low and try the proper channels to get his rights back. There is a process in some states, dunno how it works though.

I have this strange prejudice against felons
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Old January 8, 2009, 06:39 PM   #21
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While i wont advocate breaking this law , I do understand the described fella's choice , and ill note that if your already a felon of any sort there is little incentive for you not to carry and protect yourself or your family . If i liked the fella he would stay my friend .... but i sure would not sell him a pistol lol .
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Old January 8, 2009, 07:44 PM   #22
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The law is the law, and your buddy is breaking it. Like you, I don't know if your friend is legally allowed to even possess a handgun, but he certainly shouldn't be carrying concealed.

You do realize that people who break gun laws are the ones who provoke more strict ones!
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Old January 8, 2009, 07:57 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Musketeer
3. You have no RIGHT to carry. You think you do but the SCOTUS does not and their answer goes with regards to the COTUS no matter how we feel on the matter. The law is clear on the matter and your refusing to acknowledge the facts of the matter are irrelevant.
The government doesn't grant rights, they are granted to men by God. The government can only unjustly remove them.
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Old January 8, 2009, 08:02 PM   #24
Wildalaska
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Quote:
The government doesn't grant rights, they are granted to men by God.
Pshaw. There is no God and thus there are no God given rights. Time to move this one to Law and Civil Rights if you want to discuss social contracts and the nature of government.

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Old January 8, 2009, 08:10 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildAlaska
Pshaw. There is no God and thus there are no God given rights. Time to move this one to Law and Civil Rights if you want to discuss social contracts and the nature of government.
Yeah, you're totally right. John Locke was a dumbass . So was Thomas Jefferson. In fact anyone who was influenced by him is, too (Founding Fathers). Oh hell, why do we need a constitution or a bill of rights, since the ones who made it were total idiots?

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Last edited by BuckHammer; January 8, 2009 at 08:31 PM.
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