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Old January 7, 2009, 12:34 AM   #1
Yellowfin
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Want a 10mm: Glock 20 vs S&W 1006

I've been rolling this around in my head for a couple years now and saw a couple offers that got the fires stoked again. I would like a good fishing and woods gun, nice for dealing with mountain lions (where I am it's actually a concern) , bears on a rare occasion, hogs with an attitude, and of course the 2 legged vermin like meth heads--put those together and the fact that I am not a revolver man and that pretty much spells out 10mm. Ok, yeah yeah yeah it's gotta be a .44 for grizzlies... .30-06 is for that when I'm near enough to that, thank you very much. 10mm with the hot stuff is close to a .41, and when it all comes down to it I'm less of a goof with an autoloader than a wheelgun. Dunno why, but inches matter more than ft/lbs when it comes to taking care of business.

Ordinarily I'm not a Glock fan: I shoot them well but just never have liked how they look and how blocky across the top they are. No sexy curves, no attractive finish, no rarity, no mystique, just a monkey wrench that spits out bullets. But considering this is a pure function gun it seems a Glock 20 would do the job just nice and I got a good look at one in the shop today. And for $525 used that just ain't a bad deal no matter how you slice it and my favorite store has one under the glass I ogled at for 20 minutes today. Somehow the G20 seems sexier to me than any of its siblings--maybe it's the power, the proportions, or both. It won't rust easy, carries light, and if I'm dealing with 2 legged problems having 15 in the mag (ok, 10 since I'm in the PRK, but I won't be here forever and even 10 is nice) gives a touch extra confidence when faced with that matter. I'd probably work it into the regular carry lineup if I had it since it's light and...and...it's a freakin pocket howitzer.

Now in the blue corner is the S&W 1006. It's sexy. I shoot 3rd Gen Smiths well too, and been lusting after this gun for a while as well. Slightly more expensive, gotta wait a month or so for some things to straighten out so I can get my hands on one where I live, heavier by far, and maybe a slight touch less friendly to water which is only an issue because I'd fish with it from time to time. Given that I'm primarily getting this for its ability to launch the hot stuff I'm wondering if the Smith's beefiness is an edge for it. It's not an ugly plastic gun so it appeals to my taste for fine metallurgy like a stainless Rolex or nice forged Titleist or Mizuno irons. It would be my personal lightning bolt.

Man, what to do?! Who's got some hands on experience with these two? Thoughts on the super duty loads out of them like Buffalo Bore?
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Old January 7, 2009, 09:10 AM   #2
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I've been runnin this one through my head as well. I am set on the G20.

The reasons:

I might hunt with it. Being military I move around a bit. I might need to get a longer barrel to hunt with (state laws etc...)
15rds. I mean really!? 15!!
It is Not fine wood and steel. I currently carry a Colt Lightweight Commander into the woods as my sidearm. It is scratched up up and dinged up etc... Some people would have my head... Wouldn't have to worry about a glock though.
Finally, I can get a mechtech ccu for How cool would that be! 15rd 10mm Glock Carbine.

EDIT: Sorry, I have no experience with either one....
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Old January 7, 2009, 10:07 AM   #3
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I have a shiny EAA 10mm Elite Stock (da/sa, bull barrel, and other upgrades). I like it quite a bit, but it wouldn't be my gun of choice for taking it into the woods or wilderness. Glock all the way for that.
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Old January 7, 2009, 10:18 AM   #4
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I'd go for the Smith. The 10mm is really a reloaders cartridge and the Smith is more reloader friendly. The Glock cannot use cast bullets because of it's polygonal rifling but the Smith can. Glock chambers have a habit of leaving little smiley faces on the brass of high pressure cartridges like 10mm wheras the S&W won't. The S&W's extra weight also goes a long way in soaking up the recoil of a full-power 10mm, my 1076 with 180grn Double Taps has no more recoil than my CZ-75 9mm with 127grn Winchester Rangers and less than my 1911 with standard 230grn hardball. The Smith will also be pretty tolerant of water as it's entirely stainless with plastic grips. Since you're in Cali, you'd only be giving up one round of capacity with the Smith (it's 9 +1 as opposed to the Glock's 10 +1).
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Old January 7, 2009, 02:45 PM   #5
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I own a G20 but have also shot a Colt 10mm (lots more $$$). I would not feel "undergunned" in very many situations with the Glock. Put a little heavier recoil spring in it for the max loads and you're GTG.

I do believe that Glock is going to release it in the SF version early in '09. That'll make it easier to wrap your hands around the grip. Regards,


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Old January 7, 2009, 02:45 PM   #6
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Get the 1006 and don't look back.

Since you live in CA, there is only 1 round advantage for the Glocks mag capacity. I don't know anyone that shoots 10mm that keeps a Glock 20 if they are serious 10mm shooters. Most of them switch to CZ75 clones or stick with 3rd Gen Smiths.

The 1006 has a longer sight radius, is stainless steel and somewhat heavier than the Glock, the added weight makes it really nice to shoot for those nuke loads.

Shooting a Glock 20 would be fine if you had cheap access to plated bullets or had a conversion barrel to allow the use of lead bullets. Once you get a conversion barrel for your Glock to shoot lead bullets well then your in the same $$$ price range as a Smith 1006.
Some of the best bullets that I've found to shoot in my 10mm have been lead cast semi-wadcutters. They would be a no go in a stock Glock. Some of Buffalo Bores hottest loads are LEAD Bullets that are a no go for the stock Glocks.

Save some more $$$ and get a better 10mm platform than the Glock 20 is my free advice.

ETA: Just had a buddy/fellow 10mm shooter that runs a Delta Elite and a Glock 20. His Glock 20 just KB'd last weekend. He is now in the market for a SW 10XX Series, either a 1076 or 1006.
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Old January 7, 2009, 02:47 PM   #7
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I'm saving for a EAA Witness Match in 10mm.. The S&W and glock are both good choices too but there's just something about the Witness...
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Old January 7, 2009, 02:59 PM   #8
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Having owned the Glock, EAA and 1006 I can honestly say the 1006 is my favorite followed closely by the EAA. I sold the Glock, it just didn't fit right in my hand. I still have the other two.
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Old January 7, 2009, 04:06 PM   #9
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They're both great guns, and either would serve you well.

I see you're "Temporarily Held Hostage" If you plan on leaving Kommiefornia anytime soon the ability to add an aftermarket bbl or jump up to 15rnd mags are a big plus for the Glock 20. On the other hand if Glocks don't fit you and you don't shoot them as well as the S&W's that trumps accessories every time.
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Old January 7, 2009, 07:53 PM   #10
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I've had a Kimber Eclipse Custom in 10mm for about four years and have shot about 2500 rounds through it with no problems. They are a bit expensive but I love it. I've shot a S & W 1076 and liked it, too. As far as the Glock goes, they are very reliable and hard to beat. They just don't fit my hand. Even though you don't like revolvers, the S & W 610 would be my pick to go out in the woods with. You can also shoot 40 S & W in it for practice.
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Old January 7, 2009, 07:53 PM   #11
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I've got a Glock 20 that I use as a woods gun when I'm working in the field. It's pretty accurate with a Storm Lake barrel, plus I can shoot lead if I wanted too. I really don't have any experience with the S&W 10's... I do have a Dan Wesson PM-7 in 10mm that should be arriving in the next day or two. You mightcheck out the 1911 10mm's. There are some pretty nice ones.
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Old January 7, 2009, 09:30 PM   #12
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I have a G20 and a S&W 1006. Both are great shooters, and I've carried both quite a bit. But they're radically different platforms for housing the 10mm AUTO - the most versatile cartridge of the so-called "service cartridges" chambered in autoloaders.

You might want to consider an upcoming option: Vltor's 10mm Fortis pistol. Currently I'm saving up coin and keeping an eye on developments with this gun. It's asserted to be a substantially redesigned (at least internally) and much improved Bren Ten, which was the first production 10mm pistol and which exhibited a blend of genes from the CZ 75 and the Sig 210.

Unlike the BT, Fortis mag capacity is said to be 15-rounds; however, it supposedly will retain the same slim and very ergonomic external grip dimensions of the Bren.

These pics should look somewhat familiar to those who've actually seen, held or owned a BT:




Last I read, the release date for the Fortis is first quarter 09. Check Vltor's website for details, as they maintain a specific web blog on the gun and intermitently post "updates."

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Old January 8, 2009, 10:07 AM   #13
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Considering the envisioned prospective uses of the pistol, then, of course, the G20 is the better choice. The "added weight, blah, blah, blah" regarding recoil mitigation is not reflective of my experience in shooting Glocks vs. heavier, 1911-style handguns. The Glock's low bore axis and wide, poly frame make my G20 and G21s pretty soft-shooting pistols, in my perception.

Surely, a 15-rd mag or two could be rounded up, even in Kalifornia?? Since mags aren't registered, and there are no serial numbers, why couldn't a Kalifornian just buy a pre-ban mag from some of us guys who live in the U.S.??

Pretty easy to improve the Glock's trigger with a little consumer parts polishing and the consumer-installed addition of a 3.5# connector.

Shooting hard-cast bullets in a G20, in a time of emergency, won't result in a nuclear disaster. Buying an aftermarket barrel for the G20 is less than $100 for me. Just not shooting cast bullets is also just fine for me. I shoot nothing but reloads through my Glocks and reload nothing but jacketed or plated bullets...with the exception of the excellent, coated Precision Bullets that I'm currently using.
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Old January 8, 2009, 10:13 AM   #14
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I've heard of the Smith's breaking etc... this is second hand so I don't know if it's true or not, but, who knows.

I'm currently CCW'ing a G-20 and I love it. 165 grain DoubleTap GD's at 1400 FPS or so make me really happy.

Where I'm at you can get a brand new G-20 for $539.00, so I'm not too kean on that $525 used price.
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Old January 8, 2009, 01:38 PM   #15
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I paid $425 for my lnib G20, which came with Heinie sights, 6, 10-rd. mags, two 15-rd. mags, a holster and some ammo.
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Old January 8, 2009, 03:15 PM   #16
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Quote:
I've heard of the Smith's breaking etc... this is second hand so I don't know if it's true or not, but, who knows.
Seems I recall hearing this when the FBI adopted the round. The guns were getting battered pretty badly and the agents couldn't control the recoil.

A lot of folks claim the 1006 is built like a tank, but I disagree. The Smith semi-autos were very popular when I broke into law enforcement and many agencies issued them during the pre-Glock days. I have seen examples from the 6906 9mm up to the 4506 45acp worn out or broken prematurely, this included a 1076 with a cracked frame. I have also seen the way these guns choke and bobble during inclement weather and when exposed to the elements.

IMO the Smith is desirable because it is no longer made. They were not fabulous or overly desirable when they were new. While the G20 is far from perfect, it is a better choice than the Smith IMO.
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Old January 8, 2009, 07:42 PM   #17
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My regular forest gun is a Colt Delta Elite. That changed at Christmas when I received a Glock 29. The 29 is a little more packable than the 20, and I might carry it a little more than just in the woods. I haven't tried it out yet, but like the reviews I get from the guys here. I won't get to it til February, but I can't wait. Having a new gun without shooting it is a crime in my book, not to mention that it's simply driving me nuts. As you can see, I'd go with the Glock, albeit a little smaller one. My new 29 was $539 here.
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Old January 8, 2009, 07:48 PM   #18
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or

[IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0ZgBMG7YgjbZ4bQ7W60bmpZ5s*Hy!z6972Rh7etp6yj2oZXlTV7lu3RhMq3vE!UP03uUi4r9PyzGKm0S*501xYrvC8N5MbbXDLYeTqA!Wc17ii20p4yyXgYcnIXAeAeTowKOkbKkc1F5QMs0d3*G77w/Nicks%20pictures%20041.jpg?dc=4675705191042762820]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0ZgBMG7YgjbZ4bQ7W60bmpZ5s*Hy!z6972Rh7etp6yj2oZXlTV7lu3RhMq3vE!UP03uUi4r9PyzGKm0S*501xYrvC8N5MbbXDLYeTqA!Wc17ii20p4yyXgYcnIXAeAeTowKOkbKkc1F5QMs0d3*G77w/Nicks%20pictures%20041.jpg?dc=4675705191042762820[/IMG]

[IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0ZgBtD7cg3LZ4bQ7W60bmpZ5s*Hy!z697ES00d6I*zgYzZpzcBP12paOVmoBsfptU9twrUWnRX43!EnwuWPUZRcfhaM9i*b0Lc8eYVt9abX1seJbgBytw*kP6V0cBp0qRG2bycoADf8esfyM0p3KLgA/Nicks%20pictures%20042.jpg?dc=4675705191044751230]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0ZgBtD7cg3LZ4bQ7W60bmpZ5s*Hy!z697ES00d6I*zgYzZpzcBP12paOVmoBsfptU9twrUWnRX43!EnwuWPUZRcfhaM9i*b0Lc8eYVt9abX1seJbgBytw*kP6V0cBp0qRG2bycoADf8esfyM0p3KLgA/Nicks%20pictures%20042.jpg?dc=4675705191044751230[/IMG]

Both Glock 20's firing factory ammo, read not lead or reloads. These were both posted on gun boards in this last week, so this is fresh info.

I've never heard of 1006's kb'ing like this, ever. Fully supported chambers are nice when shooting max psi loads.

The FBI moved away from the 1076 because the grip was too large and the gun was overall to big for an entire government entities employees (read women and men with small hands who are not shooters). They didn't drop the 1076 because it wore out quickly

I enjoy/own Glocks and other "tupperware" pistols. In my opinion, the 10mm is best suited to larger framed semi autos like 1911s and 3rd Gen Smiths.

As for carrying an all S.S. Smith 3rd gen that weighs more than a Glock 20, I carry for my lifes comfort, not comfortable carry.
"Comfort Carry" isn't the first criteria in my choosing a carry gun, thus I carry a 1006 and not a kel tec P3At in .380 auto.
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Old January 8, 2009, 09:34 PM   #19
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There is always a picture of a blown up Glock posted somewhere, originating from a handful of guns and the true story is never known. Glock is the gun that folks love to hate. I'll venture to say that there is some underlying factor in the case of that destruction: factory doublecharge, bullet setback, prior lead buildup, reload with a weak case, or other barrel obstruction. I'll also tell you that G20 chamber support on guns made within the past year (I have never checked a gun made prior to that) is very good.

Despite seeing over 1,000,000 rounds fired through everything from 9mm-45ACP Glocks, I have never seen one blown up, I have never met anyone who saw one blown up first hand, and I have only seen a handful broken despite being abused, skidding across parking lots, being submerged in water, and being cleaned "sporadically" at best.

I'll rely on firsthand knowledge, not something I read or see on the www. The Glock is not my favorite handgun, but I will give credit where credit is due.
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Old January 8, 2009, 10:07 PM   #20
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Quote:
Seems I recall hearing this when the FBI adopted the round. The guns were getting battered pretty badly and the agents couldn't control the recoil.
You heard a myth and a mixup. The FBI never issued full power 10mm ammo, it was tested but it was determined during testing that the recoil was too severe and thusly the 'FBI Lite' load was developed. That's what the agents were acutally issued. The .40 was adopted because the Feds figured out that they could get the same performance as the light 10mm in a smaller frame gun. The gun battering was an issue with some Bren Tens but mainly with Colt Delta Elites, not S&W's.

Quote:
I've heard of the Smith's breaking etc... this is second hand so I don't know if it's true or not, but, who knows.
The were only two common issues with S&W 10mm pistols. The early grips, if dropped at the right angle, could break and tie up the mainspring rendering the pistol inoperable. Also, small parts could break in the frame mounted decocker models thusly rendering that mechanism inoperable (this wouldn't be an issue with a 1006 as it has the slide mounted decocker/safety). Both of these issues were rectified by factory recalls. A frame mounted decocker gun will have had two small dimples made in the frame to denote that the gun has been service under warranty and a gun with either the straight backstrap or the palmswell grips will not have the other issue. If your gun has the old style grips (curved backstrap, no palmswell) you can obtain new grips from S&W and the slide decocker/safety and DAO guns have aftermarket grips available from Hogue (the aftermarket ones won't fit a frame decock model).
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Old June 4, 2009, 08:58 PM   #21
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Why I have a simple solution just buy both make your own decision. I currently own a Smith 1006 I love it the extra heft doesn't bother me it rides in a Bianchi. I wasn't fond of Glocks until I saw my first G 20 and I put a used 3rd gen one on layaway at a local Dallas pawnshop in dallas $399.00 + tax with tru glo night sights 2 -15rd mags I couldn't pass a deal like that.
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Old June 4, 2009, 10:40 PM   #22
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Give your written parameters I would say seriously consider the Glock.

I have had third gen S&Ws, Glocks, and Colt in 10mm; this almost back to the beginning of the 10mm.

If looking for the "woods" gun, and able to take a rifle when you feel the need, I would look at the G29; that is what I settled on, and this after years of testing and numerous .44 mags in addition to the 10s.

Rain, snow, dirt, sweat don't seem to as much of an issue with the Glock. The fact that it has just under a 4" barrel can mean a lot compared to a 5 or 6 inch barrel, not much velocity loss but considering bush wacking and just plain old sitting down, this means a lot.

Being lighter can make the world of difference during a day/weekend/week/weeks of being out in the bush.

Of all of the above, the S&W was the worse for the wear after many "full house" rounds down range, in my person experience. Loosened up the slide to frame fit quite a bit (Baby rattle time.) My Delta Elite is still tight as a drum, as is my G29.

My favorite to shoot is the Colt. My favorite to carry is the G29. Old bar of soap that can have character added galore and I am not too concerned. My G29 has had some trigger/connector work and has a much better trigger than stock; helps a lot in my opinion. Very accurate out of the box. Recoil is very manageable after you get used to it.

I have not owned the G20, but have owned the G21; same size but in .45 auto. I did not care for it, I have other .45ACPs that I like a whole lot better. Now the SF Glock models may be better, I have handled them but for my hands were just marginally better.

For me, after decades of packing many different guns around the woods, I have been mainly carrying the G29, for the reasons listed above, for the last eight years since I bought it. I also carry bear spray (which I highly recommend in bear country as the primary deterrent) and sometimes a shotgun with slugs or a hunting rifle (depending on the season).

And the G20 mags do work in the G29, if you can get them into your country of California. Here in Alaska, no problem. Looks a bit silly, but carrying a back up with 15 works for me.
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Old June 5, 2009, 06:13 AM   #23
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Small hijack

Expanding on AZAK's discussion, regarding the velocity loss between the G20 amd G29......I have both and have run identical loads across my chronograph from each gun.

The shorter barrel loses roughly 150 fps in typical loads.

Specifics... averages of ten round chronographed sets
Double Tap 200 gr XTP...............G20 - 1150 fps --- G29 - 994 fps
Double Tap 165 gr GD.................G20 - 1442 fps --- G29 - 1268 fps
180 gr HAP over 11.0 gr AA#7......G20 - 1217 fps --- G29 - 1072 fps

Just some added data for the discussion.
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Old June 5, 2009, 05:08 PM   #24
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I've owned my 1076 since new. Not one complaint.
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Old June 5, 2009, 07:27 PM   #25
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While I love my 1006 more than all my other handguns, you are really talking about two completely different animals. I was raised on a 1911, so the S&W line was a natural path for me to take when I wanted to move into the double action mode. I installed Wolff springs and polished all the usual buffing places. I also put on Hogue grip panels, which change the backstrap configuration from straight to curved. Other than running low on ammo, I've never had a glitch in more than 15 years. Ammo velocity has run from 1050 fps to more than 1400 with no malfunctions.

I have shot a G20, and tried to make myself buy one for the last 20 years in most all of their caliber offerings. I just can't get over the butt ugly appearance, the trigger, no manual safety, nor the feel in my hand of the earlier versions. These are both very large handguns, and the grip frame will not suit lots of shooters. The single stack frame, factory grip panels, and straight backstrap on my 1006 suit smaller hands better. Mine are large, thus the switch to the Hogues. If I have to be 100% honest with you, I'll tell you that the Glock will probably be more accurate across the board. I still prefer the Novak fixed sights, a manual safety/decocker, and heavier weight for the 10mm. The Glock triggers aren't terrible, but won't compare to a traditional double action's pull after the first round is fired.

If I had to pick something else, it would probably be the Witness, then the original CZ. Triggers are excellent, accuracy great, and frames stiff, smooth, and tough. If I went back to my roots, then the Colt Delta Elite that I always wanted would have to be purchased. After I bought the Smith, I never did. Handguns are a very personal thing. I can't decide for you, but I will tell you that any full size 10mm with a full mag of 200 gr. loads is definitely going to pull your waders off if you wear it fishing! I'd pack the P22 instead.


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