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Old February 27, 2009, 03:29 AM   #51
cold dead hands
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Any entity not included in that list can still prohibit concealed carry by posting a sign, or signs- as specified in Act 419 of 1995. So, if churches were removed from the list, they would fall under that provision by default.
Dang. I was hoping we could get something like Texas has. Signage letters of a minimum size and font with Act 419 wording...or something to that effect.

These **** ant little stickers with a slash through a gun within ten feet of an entrance being legal here really **** me off.

You have no idea how many times I have carried into a place because I didn't see that tiny sticker until I have been there a few times.

Act 419 needs lots of work.
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Old February 27, 2009, 06:56 AM   #52
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Church guns could be the next barbeque rigs if people would open their minds a bit, just look at womens church hats...its anything goes. Have never understood the church prohibitions.
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Old February 27, 2009, 12:01 PM   #53
RevNate
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HB1237: Still going...

A few people have contacted me over the last couple of days asking about the status of HB1237. I just want to reassure you all that it is not dead- but the hill may now be a bit steeper to climb thanks in part to a single religious group. More details below- but I have had new people calling, e-mailing, and messaging me over the last couple of days. They were expressing shock that the bill was not passed. If we can get together better next time, I think we can overcome this.

I'll start with the general info:
The bill was not passed by the Senate Judiciary Committee, but it has a second chance. With an amendment, this bill can be presented again. An amendment has been drafted which I believe will satisfy some concerns without compromising the rights of any church or CHCL holder. I will provide the specifics of this amendment when it is made public, as I do not want to do so before it is appropriate.

Now, to the specifics. Whitaker, Taylor, and Thompson supported the bill. Johnson was not present, but he is a strong opponent. Luker and Wilkins are also probably hopeless but we don’t need to letup on them. The remaining members, Chairman Wilkinson and Sue Madison are the ones we hope will help tip the scales on the next vote.

Chairman Wilkinson made a point of recognizing his pastor and a colleague who was there to speak in opposition to the bill as "special guests." When debate for the bill came up, he noted that he was a Presbyterian and he had checked and found that four other members of the committee were Presbyterian, too. Religious liberty died right there.

The Presbyterian group opposing the bill is PC USA (READ THIS) . They are not mainstream Presbyterians and certainly do not speak for all Presbyterians, as I was assured by a very vocal supporter who is a Presbyterian.

I am personally troubled that the influence of a single religious group had that much power in swaying the decision of the panel. The only way to counter this will be with a room full of supporters when this comes up again. I was the only pastor there to speak in support of the bill. One other came in, but arrived too late to testify due to work obligations. Others had planned to attend, but were prevented from doing so for various reasons. It happens. Our schedules are very unpredictable, but next time around we need everyone who can to make a point of being there so that if we do lose a few, we won't be left in the same situation again.

Again, thank you all for your support. By the way- most of the pastors supporting this are not CHCL holders, but they do believe in the right of a church to make its own decision on this matter.

Nathan Petty
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Old March 2, 2009, 05:22 PM   #54
JasonW
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Hey guys, I am an instructor here in Arkansas and with ARCCA. I was reading the posts and wanted to clarify the current sign issue because I read that someone was obeying the ghostbuster sign. Current law states that the sign per 5-73-306 (19)(A) must be "clearly readable at a distance of not less than ten feet that "carrying a handgun is prohibited"." Since there are quotes around the verbage, the sign must say exactly that. The Arkansas State Police and ARCCA's legal counsel both agree to that interpretation. Therefore, ghostbuster signs and other "no weapons allowed" signs are invalid in Arkansas. Just remember concealed means concealed.
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Old March 4, 2009, 11:51 PM   #55
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It looks like a majority of the Senate Judiciary committee members have banded together to kill this bill.
This is a good time for them to hear from the citizens of Arkansas. The only reason churches are on the list of prohibited places is because the state made a religious judgment call in behalf of all the churches of Arkansas- assuming that a church was no place for a firearm. There is no public safety concern applicable to churches which is not also applicable to other places which are not on the list- such as daycares, nursing homes, hospitals, banks, or funeral homes.
The only reason this has stalled is because some liberal lawmakers have branded it a gun issue rather than a private property rights issue. It is troubling enough that calling it a "gun issue" somehow makes it okay to kill the bill- as if the Second Amendment was in some way a less than desireable law- but to see them deny the rights of private property owners (churches) just because they want to restrict law-abiding gun owners is outright shameful.
Yes, I am mad. I wish I could tell the whole story here and you would understand why I am angry. These anti-gun members of the Senate Judiciary Committee have failed the people of Arkansas, failed the US Constitution, and failed to keep their oath to uphold the Constitution. I hope those who have stalled it find themselves looking for work after the next election.
Taylor, Whitaker, and Thompson are your friends, citizens of Arkansas.
Wilkinson, Wilkins, Luker, Madison, and Johnson would rather see you unarmed and defenseless in a place where only criminals will carry guns.
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Old March 8, 2009, 02:05 PM   #56
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I would like to urge every arkansas resident to let the Senate Judiciary committee know about the following incidents:

http://wjz.com/local/police.church.s....2.941531.html

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2...-st-louis.html

Two church shootings in the past three Sundays. And one occurred while off-duty police officers were on guard.
Tragic stories. Both victims dead. But at least someone was there to catch the bad guys after they had murdered.

For your conveneince:
whitakerr@arkleg.state.ar.us, hwilkins@arkleg.state.ar.us, lukerj@arkleg.state.ar.us, madisons@arkleg.state.ar.us, taylorj@arkleg.state.ar.us, thompsonr@arkleg.state.ar.us, johnsond@arkleg.state.ar.us

Thanks,
Nate
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Old March 10, 2009, 08:28 AM   #57
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Rep. Pyle will be running HB1237 again. This means this is our LAST chance to get our voices heard on this. I will let you know as soon as I find out when this will happen.

Please see the story here. Some good details:
http://www.todaysthv.com/news/local/...=81421&catid=2

This is obviously a response to the murder of Pastor Fred Winters in Illinois
this past Sunday. That makes two church murders in the U.S. since this bill was sent to the Senate (the other, Patricia Ann Kelly, was murdered by her estranged husband at a church where three off-duty police officers were on guard on Feb. 22 in Maryland).
It is a shame that something less than dead bodies would not catch the attention of the Judiciary Committee members.

Thanks,
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Old March 10, 2009, 09:10 AM   #58
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Rev nate, I continue to follow your plight on Ark. Carry. It is unfortunate that this continues to be an issue, and that the killings are the only way to further this issue. I will continue to monitor the situation and wish you luck.
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Old March 10, 2009, 05:59 PM   #59
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HB1237, the “church carry bill” is on the agenda for the Senate Judiciary Committee TOMORROW, Wednesday, March 11. Right now I am waiting on a confirmation as to whether or not the bill will actually be run tomorrow. But, since it is such short notice, I wanted to give everyone a big heads up on this. I will send out another message later this evening to confirm this agenda, but right now it looks like 10 am tomorrow.
Please do not think that HB1237 is going to pass easily. We still need your physical presence and your vocal support in this meeting. It will still be very close.
Thank you,
Nathan Petty
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Old March 11, 2009, 09:38 AM   #60
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HB1237: The last stand

The Senate Judiciary Committee will hear HB1237 on Wednesday, March 18 at 10am- that is one week from today.
I think we were all caught off guard when HB1237 was not passed by this committee last time. But this is our second chance- a chance to do it right. The sentiment of some committee members is beginning to sway towards supporting this bill. A strong show of support next Wednesday will undoubtedly help tip the scales in our favor.
The Senate Judiciary Committee will meet in room 171. Enter the Capitol building on either the east or west side. If entering the east, go under the stairs and enter through the glass doors. Room 171 is in the south wing of the Capitol. When you reach the stairs on the south end, look to your left and there you will see room 171.
I have found that some folks have been reluctant to attend these meetings because it sounds intimidating: big granite building filled with worsted wool and super-egos. But don’t be intimidated. That’s your building and those people are there to listen to you.
Please let me know if you plan to attend so that we can get an idea on where we will stand with supporters. Regardless of which way this goes, this will be the last chance any of us have to make our voices heard on HB1237. I am optimistic, but cautiously so.
Thanks,
Nathan
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Old March 11, 2009, 02:52 PM   #61
RevNate
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Amendendment filed to the bill.
As amended, it would now read:
"(16) Any church or place of worship unless otherwise permitted
by the church or place of worship;"
This will completely remove the debate over signs and will allow each church to set its own policy.
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Old March 17, 2009, 04:48 PM   #62
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HB1237 has been amended again and as it now stands would read, “"(16) Any church or place of worship except that this subdivision (16) does not apply to a church or place of worship if the church or place of worship has specifically authorized a licensee to carry a concealed handgun into the church or place of worship;”
I will be honest and say that I am not totally happy with this wording, but I will still support it. The bill’s sponsor, Rep. Pyle, has tried every imaginable option to formulate wording that will get this bill out of this committee. As it stands now, this wording should pass.
I am very unhappy about the letter of the law in this bill, but I support it because in the end it will allow a church to make its own decision. As it was explained to me, a church would simply have to say “we will not prosecute anyone who lawfully carries or uses a concealed weapon” without actually authorizing anyone to carry.
This bill will go before the Senate Judiciary Committee again tomorrow (March 18th) at 10 am in room 171.
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Old March 17, 2009, 10:02 PM   #63
RevNate
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Change of plans. Rep. Pyle has decided NOT to run the bill on Wednesday due to an unavoidable circumstance. I apologize for the late notice.
I will post an update when something changes.
Nathan
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Old March 17, 2009, 11:05 PM   #64
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Should this not pass, would having a state senator friendly to the idea ask for an AG opinion as to the constitutionality of the existing law be a good idea? This must be given if requested by a legislator. In the past, AG opinions where statute was opined as unconstitutional resulted in swift action.
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Old March 18, 2009, 09:34 PM   #65
arktravler
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Rev. thanks for the updates....
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Old March 18, 2009, 10:37 PM   #66
RevNate
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I think an AG opinion would be the next logical step. I do not know if it would do us any good, but I believe it would be illogical not to try.
And I don't think we would have a problem finding a Senator who would do that.
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Old March 19, 2009, 04:08 AM   #67
roach4047
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I'll bet that the pastor that was recently shot and killed would have liked to had the opportunity to defend himself with a handgun. It's too bad that some stupid law forbids such a logical thing from occuring legally. Again... only the criminal can prevail in such a situation. What good is such a limited right to a law abiding citizen?

Any one ever heard of pastor Murry I believe his name is? I know my wife listens to him a lot and apparently he carries a gun and has been known to have it handy on several occasions. He's also a marine that served his active duty a good while back.


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Old March 24, 2009, 02:51 PM   #68
RevNate
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HB1237 is slated to be run before the Senate Judiciary Committee TOMORROW Wednesday March 25 at 10 am.
Here is the situation: We have 4 solid votes and one who is “iffy.” Five are needed to pass this bill. Discussions are taking place this afternoon to solidify the 5 needed votes. The one on the fence is Hank Wilkins. He has stated that his decision may come down to testimony offered in the meeting tomorrow.
The people behind this bill have contacted me and asked if we (pastors, supporters) could be on standby if we are needed tomorrow. I will know sometime this evening- though it may be late- if there is a need for us to be there.
I'm just giving everyone a heads-up. If you are able, please make tentative plans to attend this meeting and speak in support of HB1237. I will send out another update this evening as soon as I receive word on whether our presence will be necessary.
Again- the sponsor DOES plan to run the bill tomorrow, and it MAY come down to how many supporters vs. opponents are in the room.
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Old March 24, 2009, 04:04 PM   #69
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HB1237 will be run tomorrow and we DO need to be there. The final decision will likely come down to the testimony given during this meeting.
Sen. Hank Wilkins, the swing vote, is a minister. It would likely be helpful to address the issue of church rights and the state's error in overstepping its bounds to make a religious decision.
Meeting is 10 am in room 171. We especially need pastors who will support this to be present. All support is welcomed and will be beneficial, but in the end it will probably be the voice of the pastors which will speak most loudly to the committee.
Thanks,
Nathan
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Old March 25, 2009, 02:41 PM   #70
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Rev. , thanks for the updates.
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Old March 25, 2009, 02:55 PM   #71
RevNate
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FAILED

You can read the story here:
http://www.arkansascca.org/blog/?content=detail&id=322

Hopeully an AG opinion will fix this problem.
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Old March 25, 2009, 03:01 PM   #72
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Wow, the guy just walked out and skipped the whole thing? Methinks somebody is just begging not to get reelected.
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Old March 25, 2009, 07:47 PM   #73
RevNate
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Nah. He will get re-elected at least- if not also cheered by his constituents. But, the fact remains that he acted in a very unproffessional manner and did it without any regard to the citizens of Arkansas.
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Old March 30, 2009, 07:59 AM   #74
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This thread has a specific topic.

Personal rants about the subject State, and responses to that rant, are off topic and have been removed.
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Old March 30, 2009, 08:20 AM   #75
hogdogs
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Rev, I cannot fathom this bill dieing in lieu of the blatant stats on church shootings! I am appalled that it got so close with needed revisions etc. just to fail. How can those politicians sleep at night knowing they helped keep churches safe for the nut jobs and not the parishioners?
I hope ya'll finally get it thru!
Regards,
Brent
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