The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > General Discussion Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 5, 2009, 06:48 PM   #1
sig1
Member
 
Join Date: January 5, 2009
Posts: 64
What is double tap ammo

This might be a stupid question, but can someone tell me what Double Tap ammo is?
sig1 is offline  
Old January 5, 2009, 06:51 PM   #2
hoytinak
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 5, 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,719
www.doubletapammo.com
__________________
"Four wheels move the body. Two wheels move the soul."
hoytinak is offline  
Old January 5, 2009, 07:06 PM   #3
PetahW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 19, 2008
Posts: 4,679
They have one of those jerkwater websites you can't return here from, if you use the above hyperlink to browse their ammo.

They're a small ammo maker who took their name (Double Tap) from a reference used by high capacity firearm (usually, but not limited to, 9mm) shooters to put two bullets into each adversary, before moving on to the next adversary, when facing multiple adversaries.

JMO, but if a shooter uses enough gun, there's no need for a double tap.

.
PetahW is offline  
Old January 5, 2009, 07:25 PM   #4
sig1
Member
 
Join Date: January 5, 2009
Posts: 64
Thanks guys, interesting thoughts
sig1 is offline  
Old January 5, 2009, 08:01 PM   #5
Sevens
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 28, 2007
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 9,195
Double Tap ammo is pretty much a guy named Mike McNett who was tired of the very few choices of crappy, watered down 10mm ammo from the big ammo makers, so he started blending powders and working with proprietary powders to make hard core, kickass 10mm, the way it was originally intended.

10mm is an interesting caliber with a history, and there's a reason (not a good one) why most factory ammo in this caliber sucks. One of the worst is the Federal Hydra-Shok. Good ammo in most caliber, schitty in 10mm.

Double Tap has done well with 10mm ammo, so he makes hot stuff in other calibers. Of course, you can aregue that his stuff is not "hot", rather, it's ammo to SAAMI specs, and not even a little bit less.
__________________
Attention Brass rats and other reloaders: I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.
Sevens is offline  
Old January 5, 2009, 08:16 PM   #6
Jim March
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 14, 1999
Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA
Posts: 7,329
There are three small ammo houses that make some of the most potent ammo you'd ever want WITHOUT verging over into blowing people's guns up.

Doubletap is one, Buffalo Bore is another, and Grizzly Ammo does the same but hardcast only. DT and Buffbore tend to load both hardcast choices and various personal defense hollowpoints, depending on caliber.

Tim Sundles at BuffBore is probably doing the biggest volume and seems to have the "edgiest" stuff. But Doubletap is good stuff and less money than BuffBore.

I took a shot at a bowling ball once with a Doubletap 357Magnum full house. This was a 125gr Gold Dot slug loaded to near 1,600fps, shot from my Ruger New Vaquero 357 with a 4.68" barrel. At 20 paces I got lucky, hit it dead on, split the ball in half and sent pieces of the concrete core (at least one fist-sized) back past my feet. Turns out a bowling ball is about 1" of hard plastic shell with concrete poured in. The guy whose backyard range this was said he'd never seen a handgun to that to a ball - he claimed he'd seen 7.62x39 from an AK do similar.

So yeah, this stuff is FOR REAL. Not for use in low-quality guns, and in some calibers/types you see special warnings (like the BuffBore 44Spl says "NOT FOR CHARTER ARMS!") but for the right gun, these guys are good. I would buy DT ammo again. My CCW gun is loaded with the first two rounds as quality 38+P (Speer 135gr) and the next four with those same DT125s as executed that ball .

NOTE: one major trick is that they have pressure test gear on hand to make sure their loads reach SAAMI pressure levels quickly and then "hold there" for a while. If we're dealing with 357Maggie, a load that jumps fast to 35,000psi and holds it there for, say, 2 milliseconds (that's an example, not an exact figure!) will put as much heat on the bullet as a load that goes to 70,000 for 1ms, except that the latter could blow the gun up. Both give you the same bullet at the same speed. Obviously these ammo houses can't get it quite dialed in like that but they can come a damned sight closer than handloaders can, because handloaders don't have access to pressure test gear.

That's how these guys are avoiding blowing guns up.
__________________
Jim March
Jim March is offline  
Old January 5, 2009, 08:21 PM   #7
sig1
Member
 
Join Date: January 5, 2009
Posts: 64
How is the 357 sig in double tap?
sig1 is offline  
Old January 5, 2009, 08:42 PM   #8
Keltyke
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 6, 2008
Location: Spartanburg, SC
Posts: 2,933
Quote:
Turns out a bowling ball is about 1" of hard plastic shell with concrete poured in.
Hijack!

Interesting story. I've bowled with several leagues through the years, beginning in high school, and I never knew that. In fact, a quick Google of 10 different sites concerning "what are bowling balls made of" did not turn up the word "concrete". Can you provide additional information?

As for the ammo, I'll fur sur look into that. Sounds like good stuff.
Keltyke is offline  
Old January 5, 2009, 09:36 PM   #9
wpcexpert
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 28, 2008
Location: Central Arkansas
Posts: 791
Brother in law bought a box of DT for his Win .308. Grouped right at an inch and could tell major difference in the bang from his maxed out handloads.
__________________
When once a republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.
- Thomas Jefferson
wpcexpert is offline  
Old January 5, 2009, 11:45 PM   #10
Jim March
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 14, 1999
Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA
Posts: 7,329
Swear to Dog, it looked like some kind of fine-grained concrete to me. I can't see how they could possibly have built it any other way. The shell had no mold line at all, and it was TOUGH plastic, more like nylon or a hard urethane. The core had been poured in, I'd swear to it. I examined my "kill" in detail .

Now, this was an OLD worn-out bowling ball from a bowling alley so, it may not have been state of the art...
__________________
Jim March
Jim March is offline  
Old January 5, 2009, 11:57 PM   #11
ljnowell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 5, 2009
Posts: 274
Quote:
Swear to Dog, it looked like some kind of fine-grained concrete to me. I can't see how they could possibly have built it any other way. The shell had no mold line at all, and it was TOUGH plastic, more like nylon or a hard urethane. The core had been poured in, I'd swear to it. I examined my "kill" in detail .

Now, this was an OLD worn-out bowling ball from a bowling alley so, it may not have been state of the art...
I would imagine that there are lots of different ways to make a bowling ball. Let me tell you my experience. I dont want to go into details, because I dont want to lower anyones opinion of me before you know me. Basically there were three drunk guys, a bowling ball, and a circular saw with a wood blade. Needless to say the only thing we found in the middle of that bowling ball was more bowling ball. We expected something, a frog to hop out, a puff of smoke, maybe even a piece of papaer saying congratulations. Nothing but more bowling ball. The irony was the next day I was talking to an uncle who lives in South Carolina (I live in the Peoples Republic of Illinois) who told me "I wish y'all would have called me, I could have saved you the trouble." Turns out a similar situation occured with him and another uncle years ago. Only they used a chainsaw.
ljnowell is offline  
Old January 6, 2009, 12:22 AM   #12
Don H
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 8, 2000
Location: SLC,Utah
Posts: 2,705
Quote:
Originally Posted by PetahW
JMO, but if a shooter uses enough gun, there's no need for a double tap.
Define "enough gun".
Don H is offline  
Old January 6, 2009, 10:11 AM   #13
PetahW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 19, 2008
Posts: 4,679
When it comes down to it, man is the most dangerous game, of all.

PetahW is offline  
Old January 6, 2009, 10:29 AM   #14
Wuchak
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 1, 2007
Location: Shawnee, KS
Posts: 1,093
Quote:
They're a small ammo maker who took their name (Double Tap) from a reference used by high capacity firearm (usually, but not limited to, 9mm) shooters to put two bullets into each adversary, before moving on to the next adversary, when facing multiple adversaries.

JMO, but if a shooter uses enough gun, there's no need for a double tap.
The origin of the double tap technique is credited to William Ewart Fairbairn and Eric Anthony Sykes, British Police chiefs in Shanghai during the 1930s to overcome the limitations of FMJ (Full Metal Jacketed) ammunition. FMJ ammunition is commonly used by the Military for feeding reliability, adherence to the Hague Convention regarding non-expanding ammunition and improved armor piercing qualities. Even in the larger calibers (.45 ACP for example) FMJ ammunition can fail to transfer sufficient energy into an opponent to take him out of the fight quickly. In Ian Dear’s book Sabotage and Subversion about British Special Operations Executive (SOE) and United States Office of Strategic Services (OSS) forces, Fairbairn is reported to have instructed SOE personnel in the double tap from 1944 to 1945 at the SOE training school directed by Fairbairn and Sykes near Arisaig in Scotland. The SAS method of double tapping is when the shooter fires one shot through the neck in order to sever the spinal cord and then another shot through the eyes and an inch up. This ensures that the signal from the brain cannot reach their trigger finger and they cannot pull the trigger. The term "Double-tap" is now used to describe the broader technique of firing two rounds quickly and accurately to disable an opponent. The tactic is still used today by firearms handlers, police tactical teams, U.S. Army and U.S. Marine infantrymen, counter-terrorist military units, and other special forces personnel.

[edit] Theory

In the Double-Tap technique, after the first round is fired, the trigger is quickly pulled again as the muzzle drops down out of recoil. Ideally, both rounds should strike anywhere within the center of the target, within a tenth of a second.[citation needed] The technique is meant to impose fire control with a semiautomatic pistol while maximizing the potential of incapacitating the target despite the semiautomatics relatively weaker ammunition.

Extensive testing shows that after the third round of rapid, sustained fire, accuracy drops off sharply. Therefore, the Double-Tap technique gives combat accuracy without wasting ammunition. Furthermore, since single FMJ rounds tend to have poor terminal ballistics characteristics, a pair of bullets traversing through a target in close track (eg. the double tap) increases the probability of incapacitating a target. Also, since the center of mass is the most desirable target for a sidearm, firing two rounds helps compensate for the possibility that the first round might be deflected by heavy bone or miss a vital organ.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_tap
Wuchak is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.08792 seconds with 7 queries