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Old January 3, 2009, 10:26 AM   #1
Mausberg
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Sawed off shotgun inccident, What would be the case?

Lets say As An Example, A Guy Keeps An Illegal Shotgun( Sawn off under 18 inches) in his close reach at home for protection, if someone where to break in and he used this shotgun on them, and he explains to the authoritys that this guy broke in and you felt your life was in danger, but when it comes time to prove this and they need your wepon for anyreason, then what? is he now going to prison for protecting his property and life? or would it be thrown out in court? or should the gun just be stashed and not even mentioned or explained, keep it nice n simple he broke in and you defended and just stick to that
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Old January 3, 2009, 10:35 AM   #2
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If you produce the weapon and it's checked 10 years and 250.000 fine IIRC.
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Old January 3, 2009, 10:39 AM   #3
SavageMOA
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The police would definitely confiscate the weapon no matter what it was. If the weapon was an illegally owned shotgun, then the owner would definitely end up with some federal charges.

My suggestion would be to get the $200 stamp from the ATF so it is legal.

Also, hiding the shotgun from the police would be a VERY bad idea because they WILL find it, and then in addition to the federal charges, you will have to deal with charges of lying to the police.
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Old January 3, 2009, 10:43 AM   #4
Brian Pfleuger
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What is the advantage of having an illegally short shotgun? The only difference is more noise and flash. Keep the barrel a legal length and save yourself the $200 stamp or the $250,000 fine.
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Old January 3, 2009, 10:57 AM   #5
hogdogs
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I know of 2 cases where a short shotgun was used for HD. In one the, the gun was handed to the investigating officer and after some discussion, the LEO made it a point to help pass the case thru the system and the shooter was never charged.
In the second, the shooter handed a full length single shot to the responding officer and was never confronted further, he actually kept the short gun.
In both cases, laws were broken and I do not condone it and their results could have gone south in a hurry! I will stick to my 18 inch pump with full stock!
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Old January 3, 2009, 11:06 AM   #6
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The BATF, for God only knows why, seems to think this is a sin worth helping people commit. Suffice to say, they tried to frame a gunsmith I know on this issue. His instincts, combined with a notary, and pictures of the gun, ended up in Federal Court, with the result of a VERY angry Federal Judge, and, the case being thrown out.

Most people that go into Federal Court are not so lucky, and, get the book thrown at them.

The local agencies above did the right thing, actually concealing an illegal weapon from Federal enforcement agencies. If it was in San Francisco, I really don't think you'd be that lucky.

The good news is the BATF can't be everywhere, and, in a few places, police are the good guys, and, are protecting and serving the people they are supposed to...
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Old January 3, 2009, 11:29 AM   #7
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You may go to jail for the illegal weapon but not even be charged for the shooting. Of course the way investigations go once one thing is dirty every other item is looked at three times over with no benefit of a doubt.

Keep it legal.
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Old January 3, 2009, 11:51 AM   #8
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Felony weapons charges! Could make your little SD shooting look very bad.
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Old January 3, 2009, 01:28 PM   #9
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The ATF has been known to use "informants"-who are trying to keep themselves out of jail. They will set someone up in an instant. I have seen this happen.
In Memphis, it seems you can have an illegal weapon if you are a common street thug. At most, these thugs get state weapons charges. ATF is not interested in them.
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Old January 3, 2009, 03:34 PM   #10
.351winchester
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Quote:
What is the advantage of having an illegally short shotgun
Concealment. Real manstopping power in handgun environments. Marshalls with 12.5 pistol grip 870's in a shoulder rig, Russian SWAT entry teams with folding 8" Saiga 20's, Clyde Barrow with Remington 11s and 17 and Pardner style single shot- cut down on both ends as a quick drawing, serious PDW, the weary traveler of old with Ithaca Auto & Burglar 10" SxS 20 ga. as carjacker repellant spray...Those who need more power than a handgun offers but in a discreet package, and/or those fighting in ECQ distance where 18" would actually be too long to maneuver, such as inside a vehicle, or doorways high speed (and note short length of most designated breaching guns).
20 gauge is preferable due to temporary debilitating recoil of a 12 ga AOW/SBS, with the 20 offering a contollable hail of 3 Buck, effective on human targets at close range as any 'Tactical' 12 gauge shell.

For Home defense? Not as compact as above examples, but 18" and full stock (or better, youth stock) usually is around 38" OAL. With the right techniques, still very portable even in a home. Don't get railed like Weaver, over 26" min AOL either (though supposedly his pal's custom crackhead cannon was indeed 26/18 when taken into fed evidence, few seconds on a belt sander and viola, beseiged, dead wife, son and dog)
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Old January 3, 2009, 06:50 PM   #11
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s&w 500

Ever seen an s&w 500 in a 2 1/2" barrel?
legal concealable power.
You would only need more power for a grizzly bear/burgaler hybred.
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Old January 3, 2009, 10:50 PM   #12
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It would depend a lot on the jurisdiction. I live in rural S. Georgia. Things are different here. I taught or coached the Sheriff, his Chief Deputy, and several of the other Deputies. I taught the Ch. of Police in one of the small towns in the county, and several of the officers in the other town. I am certain any of them would be on "my side" in such a scenario. I still won't take that chance, though. I'll keep mine legal.
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Old January 4, 2009, 01:25 PM   #13
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I have a friend that has a Remington super shorty 12 ga, it is punishment to shoot. I prefer my 500 12ga 20".
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Old January 4, 2009, 09:00 PM   #14
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Why in the world would you want a gun you KNOW to be illegal in the first place. You are guilty yourself of a crime from the git go. Killing anyone sure ain't gonna make it better for you.
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Old January 4, 2009, 11:35 PM   #15
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I agree, legal is the only way to go. You would face tons of scrutiny and charges and jailtime. Not a good idea. Oh, Plus a lawyer's dream to have you in court with a shorty! You may escape jail but the civil ruling would be financially disasterous.
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Old January 4, 2009, 11:55 PM   #16
Recon7
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Tell your "friend" to get rid of the illegal weapon.
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Old January 5, 2009, 12:08 AM   #17
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Yeah, I wouldnt even wanna fool with all the bad legal crap that comes along with that scenario. Inside a house with either buckshot or birdshot it's kinda hard to miss even with a legal lenghth shotgun to the supposed extra spread you get from a sawn off is pretty much gonna result in wasted shot, embedding itsself in your walls, tv, God knows what else. Go with a legal shotgun and maybe put a folding stock on it to get that compactness your looking for, sawn offs are, in my opinion, just stupid.
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Old January 5, 2009, 02:30 PM   #18
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I once had a single shot H&R that i sawed down, after facing it off it was too close to 18", sawzalled the chamber. A 60$ gun isn't worth ten years federal.
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Old January 5, 2009, 03:26 PM   #19
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QUOTE: Tell your "friend" to get rid of the illegal weapon.

It is legal, $745 for the gun plus the $200 tax stamp.
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Old January 5, 2009, 04:14 PM   #20
hogdogs
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To dispose of an illegal barrel simply toss it in the Inter-Coastal-waterway from a high bridge wrapped in the same rag you wiped your prints off with... Not that I know I just heard it from a friend of a friend of an ex-sister-in-law of a cousins friend...
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Old January 5, 2009, 06:35 PM   #21
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Still some issues even if it is legal

Ok, I'm glad we're talking about a legal firearm and not a felony waiting to happen, but that does not remove the liablity of using a class 3 weapon in self defense. Case in point:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m..._/ai_112685749

In summary, a guy works for a H&K, buys a AC556 (factory full auto Mini-14) for testing. Drunk biker gang members chase him down and try like hell to kill him with a knife, he uses the full auto to kill one and scare the other into giving up. Very clear case of self defense, but because Attonery General wants a new trophy on the wall, he puts him throught trial on the basis of gang members' testimony and the fact he used a scary evil rifle instead of a more civilized weapon. After $45,000 of legal debt, jury aquits said H&K employee, who is more or less fired for putting the company though the negative spotlight (went to Beretta USA). His resounding advice:

" 'Do not use a Class III weapon for personal defense.' Today, the guns Gary [the SD shooter from above] is likely to have in his car have neutral images: an M-1 .30 carbine, and a 10mm Glock 20 pistol."

I say heed the warning. If you really need a short shotgun, just try a 18" barrel with a pistol or folding stock. They're a bear to shoot well, but it's legal and "proper"; also with enough practice anything can be mastered. (Or better yet, learn where to conceal a shotgun with a youth size stock).
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Old January 5, 2009, 06:40 PM   #22
Ghost22
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Still some issues even if it is legal

Ok, I'm glad we're talking about a legal firearm and not a felony waiting to happen, but that does not remove the liablity of using a class 3 weapon in self defense. Case in point:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m..._/ai_112685749

In summary, a guy works for a H&K, buys a AC556 (factory full auto Mini-14) for testing. Drunk biker gang members chase him down and try like hell to kill him with a knife, he uses the full auto to kill one and scare the other into giving up. Very clear case of self defense, but because Attonery General wants a new trophy on the wall, he puts him throught trial on the basis of gang members' testimony and the fact he used a scary evil rifle instead of a more civilized weapon. After $45,000 of legal debt, jury aquits said H&K employee, who is more or less fired for putting the company though the negative spotlight (went to Beretta USA). His resounding advice:

" 'Do not use a Class III weapon for personal defense.' Today, the guns Gary [the SD shooter from above] is likely to have in his car have neutral images: an M-1 .30 carbine, and a 10mm Glock 20 pistol."

I say heed the warning. If you really need a short shotgun, just try a 18" barrel with a pistol or folding stock. They're a bear to shoot well, but it's legal and "proper"; also with enough practice anything can be mastered. (Or better yet, learn where to conceal a shotgun with a youth size stock).
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Old January 5, 2009, 06:45 PM   #23
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My appoligies, hit back instead of clicking on a new thread (not meant for enphasis)
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Old January 6, 2009, 02:02 PM   #24
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thanks for the article Ghost, very interesting reading.
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Old January 6, 2009, 02:10 PM   #25
Recon7
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Quote:
It is legal, $745 for the gun plus the $200 tax stamp.
You know what I meant. An object cannot commit a crime. A person can illegally posses an object. Let's not split hairs.
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