The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The North Corral > Black Powder and Cowboy Action Shooting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 28, 2008, 10:09 AM   #1
triggerhappy2006
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 19, 2006
Location: peoples republic of new york
Posts: 451
First Black powder!

I am completely new to black powder but I have decided to buy one(or two or three by the time I'm done) I can't decide whether to go with a TC Omega style rifle, traditional flintlock rifle, or go with a US Marshal .44 pistol.
BTW its for poops and giggles not for hunting, target or anything in particular, just to shoot. I found a flintlock synth. stock for 89$ but I left it, TC goes for 599$ and the US Marshal .44 goes for about 545$. Good and the bad of each please
__________________
"We make the voices go away"
triggerhappy2006 is offline  
Old December 28, 2008, 11:25 AM   #2
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 11,862
Get whatever floats your boat. Might want to check availability of real bp in your area before buying a flintlock. Flinters don't work well with subs. I'm not the best one for giving advice because I'm more of a traditionalist and don't like inlines or synthetic.
Hawg is offline  
Old December 28, 2008, 11:46 AM   #3
hillbille
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 4, 2008
Location: west virginia
Posts: 220
if not for hunting, you can get a cheap sidelock nowdays used from either a pawn shop or local paper used, gun shows around here even have decent prices on used sidelocks just because no one wants one, every one is going to inlines to hunt with. pistol will be more fun but they are harder to find used, me and my son take ours out just to knock golf balls around the range, you should see the looks from some of the diehard glockers when they see a bp pistol bouncing a golf ball around the range, while they try to hit a lifesize target at 25ft.
hillbille is offline  
Old December 28, 2008, 04:04 PM   #4
arcticap
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 15, 2005
Location: Central Connecticut
Posts: 2,973
Traditional percussion rifles are probably the most fun to load and shoot. Patched round balls are easier to load and require the least amount of powder for .50 yard target shooting and plinking. Plus round balls are more affordable to shoot than saboted bullets.
But quite honestly, they're all good but everyone needs to start somewhere.
arcticap is offline  
Old December 28, 2008, 07:18 PM   #5
kirpi97
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 236
Is it is fun you seek, then I would say a nice 1858 Remmy is great for plinking. And you can get one reasonable. I even find joy taking my Lyman Plains out for a bit of shooting. To me the fun is the smoke. The smell of the powder and just enjoying the simple pleasures. So if it were me, I would choose a percussion cap pistol/revolver or a long rifle.

I own a CVA in-line. I shoot it, but it is for hunting. Seems to have too much of the new world comforts. Don't get me wrong, it is fun to shoot. But the joy in just going out and shooting isn't there like there is for the revolvers and the Plains.

The Plains is easy to load and quick to clean up as compared to my Kentucky long rifle. And the revolver allows for more shots between reloads.

Now each of mine are percussion caps. I am looking for a cheap flintlock to try out. Before I invest heavily, I want to see if it is fun to cock and re-cock and re-cock before I get a flash in the pan. So I want a cheap answer before I get frustrated.
__________________
The parting shot...
"Those who hammer their guns into plows, will plow for those who do not." Thomas Jefferson
kirpi97 is offline  
Old December 28, 2008, 09:18 PM   #6
mykeal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 8, 2006
Location: Northern Michigan
Posts: 2,765
Quote:
I am looking for a cheap flintlock to try out. Before I invest heavily, I want to see if it is fun to cock and re-cock and re-cock before I get a flash in the pan. So I want a cheap answer before I get frustrated.
A cheap flintlock will guarantee you will experience what you seek.
mykeal is offline  
Old December 28, 2008, 11:46 PM   #7
kirpi97
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 236
Cool. Being retired, time is what I have on my hands. After hearing others, I believe I am going to risk the investment and get at least one flintlock. But I believe my first one will be a pistol. Unless that would be unwise.

Let me ask. If you had it to start over, what would your first flintlock purchase knowing what you know today? This will help me and maybe the original PMer.

Looking to hear from the experts.
__________________
The parting shot...
"Those who hammer their guns into plows, will plow for those who do not." Thomas Jefferson
kirpi97 is offline  
Old December 29, 2008, 12:25 AM   #8
Smokin_Gun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 4, 2005
Location: Mojave Desert, CA
Posts: 1,195
It would b a 1728 Fusil De Grenadier, but I would still buy another Hawken Percussion in .50 cal along with a percussion Pistol of the same caliber... then try a flintrock sell the lock and buy more precussion...and a safe full a C&B Revolvers....all over again I would.
Still wantin' a 1777 Charleville Carbine though...

SG

1728

1777
__________________
"I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington"
SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A.
SASS# 19634, ...
Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

Last edited by Smokin_Gun; December 29, 2008 at 12:39 AM.
Smokin_Gun is offline  
Old December 29, 2008, 03:11 AM   #9
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 11,862
Like I said before make sure you can get real black powder before you buy a flinter. You can buy it online but with the hazmat fees it's only feasible if you buy 25 lbs. at a time. You need 2F or 3F for the main charge and 4F for the pan.
Hawg is offline  
Old December 29, 2008, 04:18 AM   #10
Smokin_Gun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 4, 2005
Location: Mojave Desert, CA
Posts: 1,195
Quote:
You can buy it online but with the hazmat fees it's only feasible if you buy 25 lbs
Hawg go here good price on 5-10lbs. also KIK... http://www.powderinc.com/

SG
__________________
"I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington"
SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A.
SASS# 19634, ...
Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php
Smokin_Gun is offline  
Old December 29, 2008, 06:15 AM   #11
darkgael
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2006
Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania.
Posts: 4,356
1st

Knowing what I know now about BP guns (and I've been seriously considering going to BP guns exclusively. I shoot them more and more.) I'd buy a Lyman Great Plains Flintlock in 50 cal.
Great shooter. Good trigger. I have just acquired a Green Mt. .54 cal (28ga.) smoothbore barrel for it so that I can take it out for birds (though, honestly, it's a bit heavy for a lot of walking).
I own several BP rifles and shotguns but the Lyman would be the first buy if I had to do it again.
Pete
+1 about Powder Inc.
__________________
“Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ...
NRA Life Member

Last edited by darkgael; December 29, 2008 at 06:25 AM.
darkgael is offline  
Old December 29, 2008, 06:53 AM   #12
mykeal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 8, 2006
Location: Northern Michigan
Posts: 2,765
Quote:
Cool. Being retired, time is what I have on my hands. After hearing others, I believe I am going to risk the investment and get at least one flintlock. But I believe my first one will be a pistol. Unless that would be unwise.

Let me ask. If you had it to start over, what would your first flintlock purchase knowing what you know today? This will help me and maybe the original PMer.

Looking to hear from the experts.
My earlier comment about cheap flintlocks was meant to be sarcastic. A cheap flintlock will guarantee frustration.

Your first bp gun should not be a flintlock, even a high quality one. It's much better to start with percussion guns and learn about black powder first, then get the flintlock. They are special guns, needing special care and concentration to fully appreciate and shoot well. Taking on the task of learning both black powder and flintlocks is a road to frustration.

Having said that, I'll suggest the Lyman Great Plains Rifle or Thompson Center's Hawken, in percussion. Both Lyman and Thompson Center make those models in a choice of flintlock or percussion, so the transition to flintlock is pretty simple. You know the gun so all you have to learn is the flintlock.
mykeal is offline  
Old December 29, 2008, 07:04 AM   #13
lookylou
Member
 
Join Date: November 16, 2008
Location: Indy
Posts: 19
I agree with others, if you buy a flinter don't go cheap. A T/C or Lyman etc has a decent lock-one that will throw a good shower of sparks.
There are several forums where traditional front stuffers are discussed. You can learn alot from visiting one of them.
I own a shoot 3 different flinters, two rifled and one smoothbore.
I also own several percussion cap pistols and rifles.
Inlines have their place, just don't bring the subject of them up around die hard traditionalists.
lookylou is offline  
Old December 29, 2008, 09:42 AM   #14
shortwave
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2007
Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO
Posts: 5,936
All great advice so far but the best was Hawg Haggen`s. The availibility(or lack of) of B/P has switched alot of m/l shooters to substitutes and flinter`s just don`t do well with them. As others have suggested, a nice percussion rifle(to start) is hard to beat. Also when choosing caliber,a trip to your local gun shop may not be a bad idea to check availibility of possible`s. Most anything is possible to get but getting it local is easiest.
shortwave is offline  
Old December 29, 2008, 11:38 AM   #15
triggerhappy2006
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 19, 2006
Location: peoples republic of new york
Posts: 451
Are there any black powders out there that are "eat all" so to speak, one gun that can shoot, lead balls, sabots, shot, use BP, or any substitute?
__________________
"We make the voices go away"
triggerhappy2006 is offline  
Old December 29, 2008, 03:28 PM   #16
darkgael
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2006
Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania.
Posts: 4,356
do it all

"Are there any black powders out there that are "eat all" so to speak, one gun that can shoot, lead balls, sabots, shot, use BP, or any substitute?"
Almost all of that. The twitchy part is shooting shot loads. A percussion gun like the Lyman GPR with a "Hunter" barrel (1-48 rifling twist) or a T/C Hawken with a similar barrel will do everything else pretty well. Rifling spins the shot charge into a donut shape (a torus) in short order.
To use shot, you need a smoothbore. A good smoothbore, properly loaded, will shoot everything pretty well (or very well) except for the conicals. The .54 smoothie barrel for my GPR shoots RBs very nicely at 50 yards, the farthest that I have tested it. I know that some shooters over at http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/index.php have had good results out to 100 yards with tightly patched round balls.
Pete
__________________
“Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ...
NRA Life Member
darkgael is offline  
Old December 29, 2008, 06:37 PM   #17
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 11,862
Quote:
Are there any black powders out there that are "eat all" so to speak, one gun that can shoot, lead balls, sabots, shot, use BP, or any substitute?
Not shot and balls in the same barrel. Not well anyway. A 1:48 twist will let you shoot round balls and conicals well tho any particular gun may prefer one over the other and 1:48 is not ideal for either. Any percussion will handle the subs, flinters need real bp. I tried sabots when they first came out in my 1:48 twist but they were tumbling at 25 yds. Some people swear by them so it may be another individual rifle thing.

SG, that's still more powder than I can afford to buy at one time.
Hawg is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10162 seconds with 7 queries