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Old December 27, 2008, 09:33 PM   #1
etothepowerofx
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9mm suppresssor on a .357 carbine rifle

I have a fox problem but don't wish to disturb the neighbors with my marlin 1894c (.357 carbine). I've heard of people using 9mm suppressors on a .357 rifle. Can this work? Even if it's possible, how can I fit my rifle with the threading to accommodate a suppressor?
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Old December 29, 2008, 11:47 AM   #2
schutzen
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Diameter

I'm not a suppressor guru, but I am an old time reloader. A .357 Mag is .357 in diameter and usually reloaded with .358 diameter bullets. A 9MM is .355 in diameter and usually reloaded with .356 bullets. I don't believe it would be a good idea to try to force .358/.357 bullets through a .356/.355 suppressor. Yes, I realize suppressors are oversized to the bore. Still if the suppressor is sized for .355, I would not try to shoot .357's through it.
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Old December 29, 2008, 12:57 PM   #3
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1. Is it legal to shoot fox in your backyard where you live? If you have neighbors that are close enough you are worried about disturbing them with the already quiet .357 out of a rifle, then I cannot help but suspect you are asking for help in doing something that is illegal.

2. Are silencers allowed by the State you live in? Many States prohibit them.

3. Do you have any felony convictions? That will prohibit you from buying a suppressor. If not are you prepared to pay for the silencer, then fill out the paperwork, including a signature by your local Chief Law Enforcement Officer and two fingerprint cards, and then mail that off with check for $200 to the BATFE and wait a couple of months for them to send you back your tax stamp so you can go pick up the silencer? Do you live in a state that allows silencers? You'll also have to pay a gunsmith to thread your barrel. You'll be into this operation for about $1000 by the time you are done.

It would have to be quite a fox problem to make this a good path to take in solving it.

Most states allow trapping of fox. That's quite and you can dispatch them with a club or a .22

States that allow suppressors: AL, AR, AK, AZ, CO, CT, FL, GA, ID, IN, KY, LA, ME, MD,MS, MT, ND, NE, NV, NH, NM, NC, OH, OK, OR, PA, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VA, WA,WV, WI, and WY.

Last edited by Wuchak; December 30, 2008 at 12:22 AM.
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Old December 29, 2008, 04:10 PM   #4
Beretta686
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Quote:
how can I fit my rifle with the threading to accommodate a suppressor
Most any NFA gunsmith will be able to help you with that. Expect to pay $100-150.

Quote:
Do you already have the Federal Tax stamp required to purchase a silencer?
Not to be nit-picky, but there are tons of people who have misconceptions about getting our NFA goodies, so I just wanted to clarify that you don't get the Tax stamp until AFTER the suppressor is transfered to you via a Form 4 (and presumably you've paid for it).
There is nothing you need to have before you purchase a suppressor.


I've never seen a lever-gun with a suppressor, but it sounds like a really kewl toy...
If a 9mm suppressor won't work, you can always get someone to make a custom suppressor for you or probably even make a integral suppressor for the thing if you have the $$$. An integrally suppressed 357 Carbine would certainly turn some heads.
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Old December 29, 2008, 05:17 PM   #5
aroundlsu
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It seems like we go through people everyday posting with NFA misconceptions. If you don't actually have a tax stamp in your safe it's probably not a good idea to offer any kind of advice in this forum.

To get to your question, you'll need a suppressor without a booster to use on a rifle. Most 9mm pistol suppressors have a device that helps cycle the action. You don't want to use that device on a rifle. You could get a silencer with multiple mounts. Gemtech makes one.

One last note, if you've never heard a supersonic suppressed bullet, you might be disappointed by the very loud sonic crack. Eventually you're neighbors will start to wonder what that noise is and come to investigate. Might you consider a subsonic round like .45ACP or even subsonic .22LR?
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Old December 29, 2008, 06:34 PM   #6
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If you already have a 9mm suppressor, you might consider getting a 9mm upper for your AR-15 (provided you have one of those too).
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Old December 29, 2008, 10:54 PM   #7
etothepowerofx
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My neighbors have no problem with my shooting during daylight, but it's in the dead of night when my birds killed-- come to think of it, trapping DOES sound like a good idea... but a suppressed carbine for any occasion would be, how you say, kewl.
The local sheriff a friend of mine, so I wouldn't do anything illegal, but I don't know any gun smiths either. Because most .357 firearms are revolvers, there aren't any suppressors on the market that I can find, hence the very close approximation, 9mm.
Actually, I plan on firing subsonic .38s which cycle well in my lever action without much TLC. The issue is that the tube below the barrel which stacks the rounds terminates a quarter inch shy of the barrel, and leaves a very small gap along the length. Without extending the barrel or shortening the tube, I don't see how any attachment could fit.
I like the integrated suppressor idea though. I have some money in my gun-fund, and I love shooting my marlin... does swapping out the whole barrel seems like the best way to go?
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Old December 29, 2008, 11:47 PM   #8
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I want to know what you decide to go with and what the cost is. I may follow in your footsteps.
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Old December 30, 2008, 12:26 AM   #9
Wuchak
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Amended my previous post to correct the order of purchase: pay for suppressor, get LEO signatures and fingerprints, then send paperwork and $200 to BATFE and wait two months to get tax stamp.

I mistakenly had it that you had to have the tax stamp before making the purchase. You have to have it before taking possession but you have to buy the item first. In my book that's worse since I have to lay out the cash for something I cannot take home.
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Old December 30, 2008, 01:16 AM   #10
Beretta686
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Quote:
does swapping out the whole barrel seems like the best way to go?
It really just depends on how Hooah you want your toy to be.
A screw on suppressor will be much simpler and allow you to float the suppressor between mulitiple toys.
But a integral suppressed weapon will be quiter and you won't have to worry about your POI shifting with it on (of course this is assuming the project is doable, since with a lever gun you do have the magazine below the barrel).
There is an outfit that makes a suppressed Ruger 44 Magnum bolt-gun (another possible option for the OP) that offers custom suppressor stuff, who would be able to give you some guidance. I don't know the name of the company, but I'm sure someone here does. I nothing else, if would be interesting to see if the project is even doable.

Quote:
since I have to lay out the cash for something I cannot take home.
haha! Wait 'till you send some dude you've never met (except over the internet), several thousand dollars for him to start the paperwork on a Machine Gun that you won't even see for a few months, than when you can finally hold it and play with it, you have to wait another few weeks until you can finally bring in home and worship it in the comfort of your own home.
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Old December 30, 2008, 01:43 AM   #11
Powderman
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One small clarification:

In WA State, you MAY own a suppressor.
You may TRANSFER and RECEIVE suppressors.
However, you may NOT USE the suppressor. To do so is a violation of State Law (RCW 9.41).

Yes, I know that it's retarded--but that's the way it is.
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Old December 31, 2008, 02:50 PM   #12
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The 0.002 inch size increase on the 357 is not going to make any difference when the typical bore size of a 9mm silencer is 0.400" or greater. What can be a problem is the powder charge. As far as I know. most 9mm silencers are made of aluminum and thin tubing which may not stand up to the heavier (2x)powder charge of the 357 mag.

Another problem is the barrel. The front sight it at the muzzle right? A gunsmith will need to move the sight back and reduce the length of the mag tube in order to thread the barrel for the silencer.

I think you would be better off using an accurate 22 rimfire rifle and making head shots. A 22 with subsonic ammo will be much less noisy than a 357 magnum even if you use 38 special ammo in your 1984.

Ranb

Edited to add; I forgot about the 9mm silencers out there made for machine guns. The only 9mm silencers I have personally seen were made for pistols, some of which were used on semi-auto rifles.

Last edited by RAnb; January 1, 2009 at 06:24 PM.
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Old December 31, 2008, 03:41 PM   #13
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that is a point... the pressure generated by the .357 is a bit more than a 9mm
puts through a "can", and not all 9mm cans are created equil in toughness. Some are made for light use on 9mm pistols, others are rated for full auto fire and are correspondingly built tougher. With .38 special you would be safe either way, and you avoid the supersonic crack that a .357 bullet is going to produce( which is as loud as a unsuppressed shot from a regular .22Lr 10/22 rifle its self)

Keep your loads under 1050fps out of that suppressed Marlin and it will be quiet.(though not as quiet as a good suppressed .22LR) Likely that you will have to mount a dot scope of some sort on it as well...as those regular sights will be obscured.
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Old January 1, 2009, 11:27 AM   #14
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I think that any cartridge that gives you more than zero fps is going to cause hearing damage if fired without a silencer or hearing protection. In my opinion, the sonic boom is insignificant compared to the muzzle blast.

Ranb
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Old January 1, 2009, 12:43 PM   #15
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It looks like some are trying to help and others have no idea what they are talking about.

If you are going to purchase a suppressor (Form 4) I would first contact the various manufactures and ask them your question as many repairs to damaged suppressors now require another $200 tax stamp. The “sonic crack” is quite noticeable and no matter how good the suppressor is the rifle still sounds like a regular .22lr for all practical purposes.

If you want to hear the difference http://s121.photobucket.com/albums/o...rrismetal/can/ has some videos of a 9mm shooting subsonic and a .223 that is super sonic. The target is a steel plate at 50yds in the first two and 300 in the last. In the 300yd video, note the crack follows the path of the bullet past the row of trees, when you are standing beside the rifle being fired it sounds like the shot is taking place down range.

There are also some photos of a Form 1 (home made) suppressor I built for the 9mm AR. I used a steel blast baffle and 6061T6 for the K baffles. If a suppressor will stand up to a mag dump of 9mm it shouldn’t have a problem with a round of 357. Most suppressors are more than strong enough to handle the pressure, heat is what kills them.

I was unable to get the CLEO signature where I live so I formed a living trust, the document is 12 pages and two notarized copies were sent with my other paper work to the NFA branch, no photo or fingerprints required. Once you get everything sent in it takes around 3-4 months to get the approved form (with tax stamp attached) back. You can not begin building until you have the approved form 1. Most dealers will make you purchase or at least 50% down on a suppressor. You can not have possession until they have your approved form 4, then you take both home.

Hunting with a suppressor is a different story I would look into the laws of your state. In Texas for example, it is against the law to hunt game animals with a suppressor but ok for varmints and other non game animals.

Last edited by jmorris; January 1, 2009 at 12:56 PM.
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Old January 1, 2009, 12:49 PM   #16
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RNab, when you have taken away the muzzle blast with a good sound suppressor, the sonic crack of a bullet is as loud as a regular shot from a 22 rifle. its significant. So anything one can do to eleliminate that as well when using a suppressor, all the better

I have 2 suppressed Rugers( a 22/45 and 10/22) and a AWC Optima for My AR15. While the AR15 doesnt ring your ears with a suppressor on and using regular service ammo, you darn sure can't fire it in the back yard and not bother the next door neibor because the sonic crack is darn loud.

My dad still has the M11/9 submachinegun and suppressor I sold him when I was a Class III dealer, so i still get to play with 9mm supersonic and subsonic
ammo though his on the farm, and well aware of the sound levels for both.
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Old January 1, 2009, 06:20 PM   #17
RAnb
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I guess I should qualify my answer a bit. I did say in comparison to the muzzle blast, the sonic boom was not significant. The boom from the fast bullet is greatly magnified when shooting indoors or under weather protection. I shoot 223, 9mm, 458 socom, 22lr, 300 whisper and 510 whisper suppressed. I do not see much difference between the subsonic and supersonic 9mm. I have not tried supersonic 300 whisper or subsonic 223 suppressed yet.

It is my subjective opinion that the supersonic crack from the 223 moving at 2900 fps is not as noisy as an unsuppressed 22lr, especially short barreled pistols. But my experience is limited as I can only shoot suppressed when I travel out of WA State. Opinions of course may vary.

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Old January 1, 2009, 07:55 PM   #18
aroundlsu
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I shot my suppressed .223 side by side with my dads unsuppressed .22LR revolver. Without hearing protection, the revolver definitely stung my ears but the .223 was comfortable.
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Old January 1, 2009, 08:48 PM   #19
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In a .38 Colt case (Cowboy action load)try 1.9 grains of bulls eye under a deep seated 148 grain hollowbase wadcutter. Sight the gun in for 25 yards and enjoy! Will kill a 50 pound critter nicely and not to much louder than a supressed rifle in a 18" or longer barrel.
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Old January 12, 2009, 12:11 AM   #20
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I own the same rifle you are thinking about suppressing. It is currently at Tornado Technologies being threaded for a suppressor. http://www.tornado-technologies.com/ Mike has threaded probably a dozen rifles for me and I can't recommend him highly enough. He is one of the good guys.
I don't think you will need to move the front sight or shorten the magazine tube. Here is a picture from the Marlin website showing that the front sight is not at the end of the barrel and the magazine tube doesn't go to the end of the barrel either. http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firear...fire/1894C.asp
As you say, there is 1/4 or so there to play with. In addition, the barrel doesn't screw into the suppresor with the suppressor flat against the magazine tube. The suppressor also has another 1/4" to play with. Here is a picture of the suppressor I am going to use: an AAC Evo-9. In the picture is a threaded Glock barrel just to show you how much threading you need for the can. You actually only need like 1/4"
Shoot subsonic loads and the 9mm can will be fine and it will be quiet. I am thinking 180 grain bullets. A subsonic .357 bullet is no different than a subsonic 9mm bullet. One will not put any more wear or stress on the suppressor than the other.

Buy a lever scout rail for it and a Leupold Scout Scope. http://www.xssights.com/store/scope.html I have that set-up on my 444 Marlin and it is just the ticket for the .357 too.

If it turns out that I am wrong and the magazine tube does need to be shortened, I will post that information to this thread. I have had Mike move the front sight on several guns he threaded for me including a couple Ruger Mk.IIs like the ones shown on his website. Point being, if it needs to be moved, Ok, he will do it. If the magazine tube needs trimmed back, again, it can be done. I dont' think it will be nessessary but I am not the gunsmith.

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You know the rest. In the books you have read
How the British Regulars fired and fled,
How the farmers gave them ball for ball,
From behind each fence and farmyard wall,
Chasing the redcoats down the lane,
Then crossing the fields to emerge again
Under the trees at the turn of the road,
And only pausing to fire and load.

Last edited by 444; January 12, 2009 at 12:34 AM.
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Old January 15, 2009, 12:18 AM   #21
444
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UPDATE:

I just got an email this evening from Tornado Tech. They have finished my rifle(s). I actually sent them two lever guns. The Marlin 1894C and a Marlin 39A .22.
He finished the job and is sending them back to me. When I get them back, I will let you know if there is any problem with the suppressor mounting on the 1894C and I will post pictures of the threading, the suppressor mounted, and the rifle with the thread protector.

The cost was $150 per rifle plus $19 for return shipping.


Having a tube fed .22 threaded for a suppressor is kind of a weird thing since you have to unscrew the suppressor from the barrel in order to load the rifle. However, if you don't plan on shooting up a lot of ammo, such as small game hunting or small varmint shooting, the Marlin 39A is a VERY accurate rifle that I really enjoy shooting. Plus, since the action doesn't open upon firing like a semi-auto, it will be as quiet as a bolt action rifle only it isn't a bolt action rifle.
I guess the bottom line is that I am slowly working toward getting all my guns threaded that are applicable to suppressor use. I have a pretty fair number of guns, so this is a big project. FWIW: this isn't like a concious goal, it is just sort of happening. I look at something I have in the safe and think, I bet that would be nice if it was suppressed. Or, I see someone posting a picture on-line of a suppressed gun and I think, hey I got one of those, I am getting it threaded.
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You know the rest. In the books you have read
How the British Regulars fired and fled,
How the farmers gave them ball for ball,
From behind each fence and farmyard wall,
Chasing the redcoats down the lane,
Then crossing the fields to emerge again
Under the trees at the turn of the road,
And only pausing to fire and load.

Last edited by 444; January 15, 2009 at 12:23 AM.
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Old January 21, 2009, 07:59 PM   #22
444
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I am not sure if there is any interest in this or not. I didn't get a reply to either of my last two posts.
We get a question, some speculation, then I say I am doing exactly what is being asked about and nothing.
If no one cares I won't bother posting the pictures. I already know what it looks like so I wouldn't be posting them for my own benefit.
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You know the rest. In the books you have read
How the British Regulars fired and fled,
How the farmers gave them ball for ball,
From behind each fence and farmyard wall,
Chasing the redcoats down the lane,
Then crossing the fields to emerge again
Under the trees at the turn of the road,
And only pausing to fire and load.
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Old January 23, 2009, 06:45 PM   #23
biere
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I would appreciate a picture or 10 please.

I am going to get something specifically to suppress and I keep winding up looking at marlin leverguns.
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Old January 23, 2009, 07:54 PM   #24
444
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You can see the iron sights without a problem.
The magazine tube didn't need shortened.
The suppressor isn't even close to the magazine tube.
The front sight didn't need to be moved.









__________________
You know the rest. In the books you have read
How the British Regulars fired and fled,
How the farmers gave them ball for ball,
From behind each fence and farmyard wall,
Chasing the redcoats down the lane,
Then crossing the fields to emerge again
Under the trees at the turn of the road,
And only pausing to fire and load.
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Old January 23, 2009, 09:15 PM   #25
Michael A. Le Lack
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Expensive Fox

All this to kill a fox?
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