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Old December 29, 2008, 03:11 AM   #76
3 gun
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Just one unless I'll be in the middle of nowhere then I'll add a couple to the belt.
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Old December 29, 2008, 03:46 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Creature
Do you keep a spare tire in your car?
How many spare tires do you keep in your car?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WildAlaska
I will use my civilian piece to fight my way to the M1A in the truck.
If I can get to my truck, I'm probably just going to leave if the situation is so bad as to require an M1A. Unless I can't get out, in which case the M1A is a good idea. I only don't carry a rifle in my truck at all times because I would constantly worry about theft and concealing it within the truck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peetzakilla
Needing to draw CCW in a lifetime- 1:1000
Needing to fire the weapon- 1:10,000
Needing to fire more than 1 or 2 roounds- 1:100,000
Needing to fire more rounds than are in the smallest of typical weapons (I'll say 5)- 1:1,000,000
Needing to fire more rounds than are afforded by a single reload- 1:10,000,000
Those numbers are going to be different for every single member of this forum. Therefore, I consider your estimate irrelevant to everyone but yourself.

Back to the OP, when my paperwork finally goes through, I plan to only carry what the gun's magazine will hold. That's because I can't imagine a shootout going down in Evansville, Indiana. Therefore, I don't feel the need to prepare for one. The only scenarios I have ever come across (the ones that almost happened, I mean) where I would have needed a spare mag, I wouldn't have had time to reload, anyway.

In summary, to me, the primary logic in limiting your preparedness for anything is what you are willing to tolerate. "Am I willing to tolerate the extra weight and bulk of those spare mags?" "Do I want to take up all that bed space for four spare tires?" "Should I wear a jacket? It might get cold." Logic applies to all preparations. Logic is leading you to prepare, and the same logic leads you to the limitations on the preparations. Not only does this apply to carrying a concealed weapon, it applies to almost everything you do. The logic for each person is different, and that's fine. What you do and how you rationalize it is your business. Like many people often say about many things, "There is no wrong answer." Every person is different, and you must find what is right for yourself.
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Old December 29, 2008, 07:06 AM   #78
jughead2
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extra mags

i am with Curt.45. p12-45 2 mags balances the weight with shoulder holster.
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Old December 29, 2008, 04:02 PM   #79
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Just one unless I'll be in the middle of nowhere then I'll add a couple to the belt.
Why would being "in the middle of nowhere" make you less safe than in a people rich environment? Seems like adding "a couple to the belt" makes good sense either way.

Of course, the definition of "nowhere" can vary a lot from one from one person to the next. I travel alone in the wide open spaces of Nevada, and am well armed. Not sure I'm any safer in town.
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Old December 29, 2008, 04:08 PM   #80
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I just carry my gun loaded with the one mag in the well. Way I see it is that if I cant take out at least 4 guys with 15 rounds of JHP 9mm then I have no business carrying a gun. And the chances that im going to face anything over 1 or 2 is just astronomical. But I keep an extra mag in the glove box, just in case.
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Old December 29, 2008, 04:43 PM   #81
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Those numbers are going to be different for every single member of this forum. Therefore, I consider your estimate irrelevant to everyone but yourself.
So then, what ARE the odds? For how small a probability do we prepare?
I do have some numbers provided by a person who teaches and examines these things for a living. They were provided to me in a private conversation, as such I'll not post them here without permission. That person is more than capable of providing that information to this thread if he so desires. The point being that there ARE facts and figures indicating how many rounds are needed in REAL SD situations. Some people either choose not to look, choose to ignore people who actually know or choose to believe and do what they want regardless.
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Old December 29, 2008, 07:55 PM   #82
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One extra mag in your pocket is enough my friend if that gives you a peace of mind but i doubt if you can use it though. In gun plays with one adversary to neutralize three rounds to six at most is all you need. Besides, it will be over in thirty seconds at most, unless your fond of watching this Hollywood movies (no offense, im just sharing my experience with you in the Philippine Marines).
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Old December 29, 2008, 08:07 PM   #83
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One spare magazine, mostly in the rare case of magazine failure, since the probability of a civilian needing more rounds is unlikely. Some advocate ball ammo for penetration through cover if things get that far. Some carry a spare magazine or two in the car if far away from help.
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Old December 29, 2008, 08:34 PM   #84
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sheesh...

...I can't believe this is still going...
Of course you can carry as many mags as you want...I can tell you in courses I carry as many as possible...If I was going into a fight for sure, same thing...On the way to work...nope...
I do have more mags in my vehicles......I do have more mags around the house...and by far and away, if I could get away with it, I'd carry an AR...everywhere...
I don't go where I once did...
I do practice reloads, failure drills, and try to maintain some sort of practice schedule...
I do have everything I can think of on my side, as often as is humanly possible...and ok...
I do like the balance of one extra mag on the off-side!
What I like even better is a flashlight...If you don't, and don't have any means of indexing your firearm in low-light, well that...is silly... and extra ammo won't help because holes are what stops fights...accurate, well-placed, blood-gushing, h-o-l-e-s...So yes...take the kitchen sink if it makes you better!
There is nothing wrong with carrying everything if you practice with it...
If you don't, well that's pretty silly too...IMHO and YMMV...
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Old December 29, 2008, 09:09 PM   #85
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if a guy wants to carry just whats in his gun then let him, i bet good money he will never use any of them in his lifetime let alone one.

if a guy wants to carry 17 extra mags then let him. its his comfort level.

i just want to know how many of you WELL armed people are counting on self defense as in defending your life, and how many of you seen to many john wayne movies and are looking to be a hero, looking to get involved just because you are armed.
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Old December 29, 2008, 10:57 PM   #86
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Creature
Do you keep a spare tire in your car?
How many spare tires do you keep in your car?
I keep a spare tire in all of my vehicles. Just in case I might need it. Much like I carry a spare magazine....just in case.

Thanks for asking.

Quote:
i just want to know how many of you WELL armed people are counting on self defense as in defending your life, and how many of you seen to many john wayne movies and are looking to be a hero, looking to get involved just because you are armed.
Just because I carry a spare mag doesnt mean I want to be a John Wayne. I carry a spare mag because I believe it to be prudent to do so. Nor does carrying a spare mag make one "WELL armed" as you put it. "Well armed" is sitting behind a tomahawk console in a CIC on a ship 800 nautical miles out to sea.

Last edited by Creature; December 29, 2008 at 11:04 PM.
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Old December 29, 2008, 11:09 PM   #87
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One.
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Old December 30, 2008, 12:17 AM   #88
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Sometimes I carry one spare, sometimes just the mag in the gun. I haven't felt the need for a back up gun, or another weapon in the vehicle, yet. But, times, they are a changin.
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Old December 30, 2008, 08:50 AM   #89
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Most of the time, I carry a spare for my EDC and the BUG. If going to a bad part of town, I carry two spares for my EDC and a spare for the bug. Paranoia? Not really...just being prepared for the just in case.
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Old December 30, 2008, 09:39 AM   #90
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So then, what ARE the odds? For how small a probability do we prepare?
Again, its not the probability that we are preparing for, its for what is at stake that we choose to carry a gun. Yes, the chance is small that a gun is needed in the first place, but the consequences for not carrying a gun are HUGE. Far more than what I am willing to gamble on. I carry gun as insurance. I carry a spare mag as extra insurance.

Quote:
I do have some numbers provided by a person who teaches and examines these things for a living. They were provided to me in a private conversation, as such I'll not post them here without permission. That person is more than capable of providing that information to this thread if he so desires.
Well the bring that person in to the loop. I am sure it will be enlightening.

Have you considered though that perhaps that person, with his or her intimate knowledge of "the facts" may not agree with your position? This person probably gets that while lightning rarely strikes, it still take lives every year. And that many times, the death it inflicts could have been easily prevented with a modicum of forethought?

Quote:
The point being that there ARE facts and figures indicating how many rounds are needed in REAL SD situations.
Those facts are moot when you planned for something and then you come up short when ol' Murphy strikes.
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Old December 30, 2008, 09:56 AM   #91
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Generally, I'll carry one extra magazine or one speedloader with me.

Extra ammo is nice to have, but the extra magazine is primarily due to the chance of malfunction.
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Old December 30, 2008, 10:00 AM   #92
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I usually carry one spare mag with my semi-autos. I usually stager the spare mag with hollow points and FMJs.

If I carry my snubnose, I usually carry a speed strip or dump pouch with one reload. The reloads are FMJs.
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Old December 30, 2008, 10:21 AM   #93
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If you have the need to draw your firearm in self-defense, you are in what is clearly an exceedingly rare statistical event. If you have to actually discharge the firearm, you are in an even rarer situation. Plan accordingly.

If you want to plan based solely on statistics, there is no reason to have ammunition or a firearm.
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Old December 30, 2008, 10:26 AM   #94
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Your whole statement hit the nail right on the head, buzz knox...
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Old December 30, 2008, 10:58 AM   #95
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Your whole statement hit the nail right on the head, buzz knox...
I've refined it over the 101 threads that have occured this year alone on this issue.

Carry what you want. If it works out for you, great. If it doesn't, we can learn from your mistakes (assuming that either you survive to recount your tale or the authorities locate the body and can reconstruct the situation).

Before you ridicule or otherwise denigrate someone for carrying something that you don't, take a minute and figure out why they are doing so. In the last couple days, I drove by the likely location of one of the most notorious carjackings in recent memory just this weekend. I'm currently a brisk walk away from the scene where it ended in the torture and murder of two innocent people. The five two-legged fungi who perpertrated that crime were prison hardened and large than me. Events like that are rare, but the consequences are absolutely disastrous. Should I follow the statistics and not carry a weapon? Should I "prepare" for the unlikely event and carry a 5 shot revolver, knowing that the unlikely could involve multiple armed attackers and the 5 shots will likely not do that well in the stress of the situation? Should I carry matching Glock 17s with 26 backups? Or should I find a happy medium between unarmed and "excessivley" armed? That's up to me. I know from experience that asking the question on the internet will lead to about 10% real discussion and 90% derision from both sides, including those with agendas.
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Old December 30, 2008, 11:57 AM   #96
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One of the best reasons to carry a reload, atleast for an auto, is to clear jams or malfunctions. I see this as a better reason than for the extra ammo, but I am confident I can depend on the 5 or 6 rounds in my carry guns.

I do sometimes carry a reload, but its rare. What dictates whethere I do? Generally how I am dressed, not where I am going. I do have more ammo in my car, but that is only because I see no harm in it, and an extremely-unlikely chance it could help. It just stays there, getting swapped with fresh rounds every now and then, if I ever need it. Its not any inconvenience.

As far as preparing for the unexpected, which we've touched on here, I keep it simple. I have my hiking pack stored in my closet, still stuffed with anything I may want to have. All I have to do is grab it, fill some fresh water, prefferably some food, and head out with anything I may need to get by. Well, with the bag and my trusty side-arm, of course.
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Old December 30, 2008, 01:43 PM   #97
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Quote:
Should I follow the statistics and not carry a weapon?
There is the problem, IMO. Should one try to find out what the facts are and then make a decision, or try to make a decision based on no facts? There actually is a fairly good lifetime likelihood of being in a DGU situation, just how good depending on which set of numbers you want to trust and how you want to define a DGU. Using Kleck, for example, the lifetime probability is about 1 in 200. Then it starts getting into wilder numbers. Actually needing to shoot the gun is about 2% of 1 in 200. That not working and the BG presses on his attack and you need to shoot him goes to about a 6% of the 2% of the 1 in 200. Multiple shots being needed tosses it down to maybe 3% of the 6% of the 2% of the 1 in 200. Needing to reload then is about 2% of the 3% of the 6% of the 2% of the 1 in 200. So while the need for a firearm is not to unreasonable, most everything after that basic concept gets to be really rare or it can get more common based on you and your lifestyle. Understanding that, and how the odds affect YOUR lifestyle specifically, can help one accurately determine what they need and how much they need it.
Quote:
Or should I find a happy medium between unarmed and "excessivley" armed? That's up to me.
Exactly, and there is nothing wrong with being excessively armed if that is what you want. As you so aptly put it, "That's up to me." But finding the happy medium is best done by knowing what the facts are as they relate to you instead of just guessing based on nothing other than the 6:00 news. The problem comes, as in so many other internet discussions, when it becomes "if you don't do like I do obviously you can't survive/win/whatever and you you might as well not even consider defending yourself because you are not serious about it" or similar nonsense. My $.02.
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Old December 30, 2008, 01:52 PM   #98
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The problem comes, as in so many other internet discussions, when it becomes "if you don't do like I do obviously you can't survive/win/whatever and you you might as well not even consider defending yourself because you are not serious about it" or similar nonsense. My $.02.
Every such statement is matched by one on the other side along the lines of "if you can't do it in 5 you shouldn't be armed," "you are a rambo wannabe," "you're not a cop so carrying a spare mag is foolish," or "the odds of that happening are so rare that you are being ridiculous."

The happy middle ground is lost on both sides of this debate.
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Old December 30, 2008, 02:02 PM   #99
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Needing to reload then is about 2% of the 3% of the 6% of the 2% of the 1 in 200.

I'll save every one else the math... if I do it right.

That means a reload is necessary in 36 out of every 10,000,000,000 cases.

I believe I saw an estimate that there are 700,000 instances of firearms used in SD annually (fired or not). If both those numbers are correct, it would be an average of 396 years before ANY of those 700,000 individuals would need a reload in a SD situation. In other words, the odds that YOU will need a reload in your own personal case are 700,000 times less likely than 1:396 years.

Quote:
The happy middle ground is lost on both sides of this debate.
You're right about the ridiculous put-downs but the "middle ground" issue is different. That is partly the nature of debate. Middle ground is for compromises, not debates. If we all came into this thread with out a position to defend, where would this thread go?

Most of us have stated, more than once, that those we disagree with should do what they want to do.
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Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; December 30, 2008 at 02:09 PM.
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Old December 30, 2008, 02:05 PM   #100
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delete
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