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Old December 27, 2008, 10:42 PM   #51
orionengnr
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Quote:
The odds of my needing the first bullet in my CCW are probably .001%, the odds of needing the last one in the magazine are probably .000001%.
You need some more math. To wit: Statiscal Probability
While only one in one million may need that last round, that does not mean it won't be you.

As someone once said, it's not the odds, it's the stakes.

And yeah, it's your choice. Please choose wisely.
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Old December 27, 2008, 10:49 PM   #52
rantingredneck
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Typically one reload for whatever I'm carrying.

In my truck there is a P97 in a floor safe. There's often also an 870 in a locked case.

My truck door pockets are full of shotgun shells leftover from various hunts in the last year or so. I could hunt anything from doves to deer with whatever I find in there.

My truck console also tends to catch the spare mags and or speedstrips/speedloaders that I cast off in my daily travels.

My truck is well armed typically.......
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Old December 27, 2008, 10:55 PM   #53
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My .02:

If you carry a gun you should carry a reload for the same reason as you should carry magazines topped off-----Why wouldn't you? I agree you can take this to the nth degree and my perspective is skewed by being a cop and having a different outlook than a CCW holder. I "look" for trouble always and if I should find it I will handle it, even off-duty, although the ROE change.

Carry what you want. YMMV
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Old December 27, 2008, 11:39 PM   #54
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for the record I usually carry 1 reload and my truck has a spare tire but the Bronco dosen't.
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Old December 28, 2008, 12:11 AM   #55
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Sorry, temporary thread diversion but...

Quote:
1 Ole Guy from Mississippi able to hit 4 targets reload and hit the 4 targets again in 3 seconds with a wheelgun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Og9ccsb1v6o
HOLY CRAP! It's like he's using a machine gun pistol. 6 rounds on target in 1 second.
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Old December 28, 2008, 12:59 AM   #56
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i dont carry a spare mag on me, but theres a 12rd of jhp in the truck.
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Old December 28, 2008, 09:24 AM   #57
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Quote:
it's not the odds, it's the stakes.
That right there sums up the whole argument about carrying a gun....and carrying a reload.
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Old December 28, 2008, 09:43 AM   #58
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Spares

I carry Hydra Shok or Gold Saber in my primary CCWs and carry a spare magazine of Gold Dots. If it comes to the reload, I want a bonded bullet to penetrate more in case I need it. I typically carry a BUG, Kel Tec P32, with Cor Bon and no spares unless it's my primary for some reason. In that case I'll add a 10 Round KT mag of Cor Bon.
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Old December 28, 2008, 10:01 AM   #59
David Armstrong
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For CCW I'll usually just carry whatever is in the gun, and use all the same ammo, no mix. I don't worry too much about getting attacked by a tiger, so I don't carry around a .416 Rigby. The chance of needing the spare mag is less than getting attacked by a tiger, so I don't carry around one of those either. It is not a big deal either way, IMO. Carry one if it makes you feel good, don't worry about it if it is a hassle. Either way works out.
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Old December 28, 2008, 10:26 AM   #60
tshadow6
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spare mags

The Police Officer that stopped the Utah mall shooter was carrying a .45 pistol downloaded to six rounds. I believe he fired at least 2 rounds at the bad guy. Since he did not have any spare magazines, he started to worry about stopping the bad guy. During a post incident interview with "Law Enforcement" magazine, he stated every one should carry spare ammo. I carry one spare magazine. When I'm on an overnight trip, several spare mags along with an extra weapon. Call me paranoid, but when seconds count, the police are minutes away.
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Old December 28, 2008, 10:41 AM   #61
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It is not a big deal either way, IMO.
Then you too are missing the whole point of the discussion.
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Old December 28, 2008, 10:55 AM   #62
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I carry as many spare magazines as I can, loaded with the same ammunition. What I wear to the local grocery store is vastly different than what I wear when I'm walking or hiking inside and outside of my small town.
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Old December 28, 2008, 11:01 AM   #63
Ruthless4christ
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two mags. i feel it should get me to my truck to my long gun.
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Old December 28, 2008, 11:21 AM   #64
Glenn E. Meyer
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I don't worry too much about getting attacked by a tiger
Dave, long before that tiger jumped out of the cage and ate up those jerks who taunted it, a friend of mine was (is) a comparative psychologist and zoo consultant - expert on big cats. She was examining a zoo pit and it had a moat of X feet. She looked at it and said tigers can leap x + y feat and said out of there!

Thus, tiger attacks happen. She also consulted on a cheetah in a game park that leaped through a partially opened back window grabbed a toddler and zapped off. Remember the gorilla that got out?

So big cat attacks happen!! I would be prepared for such. Of course, having the rifle in the truck - so what.

Anyway - The probability/stat game is misunderstood. The naive use of stats indicated that most of us will never needa loaded gun on an 'average' day. So let's fold up our tents.

Most model their actions on the 'single BG/mugger incident'. No shots fired or just a few and the BG is removed as a threat thru fleeing or being hurt. If Kleck is correct (debated in the literature) then there are lots of DGUs - most with no shots fired.

However, there are a few extremes of high intense gun fights where a CCW type might be involved. A "Black Swan" incident so to speak - so do you prepare for them? A mall, a school rampage, etc.

The Tyler courthouse and Tacoma mall didn't go well for the good samaritarians - unfortunately due to them having a gun and not being tactically sensible (so is training more important than the gun capacity?). The Colorado church ended well but the shooter was a trained ex-LEO and the BG actually killed himself when wounded - probably his plan all along.

Thus, this is a never ending argument. Most DGUs can end with the capacity of the gun - the vast majority of property crimes or sexual assaults. If you do hit a rampage (there have been only 14 college rampages) - then you might need more ammo. It's not hard to carry an extra mag - so it is little cost for a rare event.

To opine - if you are worrying about the gun equipment issue and you haven't had a modicum of trainig - then your priorities are a touch off, if you are worried about the rampage. For the single mugger - taking out the gun and waving around seems to work for most.

PS - I forgot to opine about this alternating of FMJ and JHP or carrying a mag of each. I do not know of an incident where a civilian had to worry about failure of penetration by JHP and then would have been saved by FMJ. If the BG had body armor - FMJ doesn't do it. The known risk of overpenetration is more than that of having to shoot the rampager through something that JHP wouldn't work for.
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Last edited by Glenn E. Meyer; December 28, 2008 at 11:26 AM. Reason: More genius babbling.
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Old December 28, 2008, 11:29 AM   #65
David Armstrong
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Then you too are missing the whole point of the discussion.
If the discussion is if there is a real need to carry a spare mag, it seems I'm right on track. Again, it is not a big deal either way. If one wants to carry a spare, fine, it makes you feel good and that is a good thing. If one does not want to carry a spare mag, fine, you're probably not going to need it and that is a good thing.

Last edited by David Armstrong; December 28, 2008 at 11:40 AM.
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Old December 28, 2008, 11:40 AM   #66
David Armstrong
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Thus, tiger attacks happen. She also consulted on a cheetah in a game park that leaped through a partially opened back window grabbed a toddler and zapped off. Remember the gorilla that got out?
So big cat attacks happen!! I would be prepared for such.
That's my point, Glenn. There are actual things that happen, but we don't even consider them and most people would think it rather unusual if one did worry about and plan for a tiger attack. Yet AFAIK more people have been killed/injured by big cat attacks in the U.S. than have been killed/injured because they did not have a spare magazine with them.
Quote:
Anyway - The probability/stat game is misunderstood.
I don't think anyone argues that more than I do!
Quote:
It's not hard to carry an extra mag - so it is little cost for a rare event.
Agreed. Little cost, but also little benefit. Of course, then there is the issue of who is better equipped, the CCW with a 7-round gun and a spare mag or the CCW with a 17-round gun and no spare mag.
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Old December 28, 2008, 11:44 AM   #67
Glenn E. Meyer
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Hey, I didn't know that a gun carrier had to know addition.

To be mildly serious, one argument for the extra mag is that your primary mag can go belly up. Esp. - if you carry the ultimate man stopping 1911! But I did have a Glock 27 mag fail in a match once.

And my cheap AR-15 mag has bellied up! Oh, wait - I didn't carry that to the mall.

I think I will go survey my dried food for the meteor strike.
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Old December 28, 2008, 02:26 PM   #68
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Quote:
"Usually, no spare mags until special circumstances."
Same here. I've got 6 mags for one, and 4 for another, but for the most part, I carry a revolver for HD. Don't get me wrong, I really like semi-auto pistols, but I'd rather put my faith in revolvers. I'm old-school, I guess.
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Old December 28, 2008, 03:01 PM   #69
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Quote:
it's not the odds, it's the stakes.
It's both. We all make provision for smaller and smaller odds as the stakes go higher and higher. You're still playing the odds. Otherwise, you'd be working to meteor proof your house because it's the stakes not the odds.

To borrow a phrase, I'll say it for the umpteenth time, you have to draw the line somewhere or you'll be driving around in armor cars and wearing kevlar. If you want to draw the line at an extra mag, go ahead. If your line is an extra mag and a bug, fine. My line is a single gun loaded with 10 Gold Dot .357 Sig, no reload. There hasn't been an armed robbery within 30 miles of my house this year. Maybe that's why my line is "lower", although I still think I'd be more than adequately equipped anywhere that a law abiding citizen has need to be.
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Old December 28, 2008, 07:16 PM   #70
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I carry 2 spare mags for my Ruger P90, it helps balance my weight.
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Old December 28, 2008, 08:42 PM   #71
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usually

just one spare. sometimes a 2nd with FMJ. The other 2 have Federal Hydrashoks.
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Old December 28, 2008, 08:57 PM   #72
Nnobby45
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Quote:
The odds of my needing the first bullet in my CCW are probably .001%, the odds of needing the last one in the magazine are probably .000001%.
Odds according to who? You?

For ordinary people who get murdered everyday, the odds were very much in favor of it not happening to them.

Clint Smith points out that some times Wolves travel in packs. Not that he needs to.

What ever the odds, it's a 100% certainly that I'll have better piece of mind carrying two spare mags for my P220.
Too bad Reginald Denny didn't have a pistol with a couple spare mags.
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Old December 28, 2008, 09:27 PM   #73
dabigguns357
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I started carrying not only the hi-cap mag in my .40 but also 2 extra mags in a mag holster.I didn't do this till my city went to heck and there were 5 shooting in less than 4 days with 5 blocks of where i live.
Yep i have found a house farther up the river and will be moved in by the middle of feb.Untill then i'm packin all i can,even my wife is packin now.So between the 2 of us we now have 46 rounds of max firepower,34 .40 cal rounds for me and 12 .357 rounds for her.
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Old December 29, 2008, 01:53 AM   #74
Kline605
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I never use to carry a spare magazine until I sat through the a briefing on the Von Maur and Trolley Square Mall shootings. Now I carry at least one, two if I'm wearing a jacket.
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Old December 29, 2008, 02:08 AM   #75
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I have skunks and sardines in my truck, it keeps the BG away
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