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Old December 27, 2008, 02:51 PM   #26
Brian Pfleuger
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So, everyone agrees then that there is a logical limit to preparing for a SD situation.


The next question becomes "Where is that logical line drawn?"
The exact line will be different for each of us, that difference is based almost entirely on the likelihood and type of trouble in the areas we frequent. I'll go back to the odds. None of us knows exactly what those odds are, but I'll give it a shot.

Needing to draw CCW in a lifetime- 1:1000
Needing to fire the weapon- 1:10,000
Needing to fire more than 1 or 2 roounds- 1:100,000
Needing to fire more rounds than are in the smallest of typical weapons (I'll say 5)- 1:1,000,000
Needing to fire more rounds than are afforded by a single reload- 1:10,000,000

Let's just say, for the sake of discussion, that these numbers are close to right. How far down that list to YOU logically need to be? I'm gonna say 3rd on the list covers my entire life span and then some. Like I said before, you all do what you want.
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Old December 27, 2008, 02:52 PM   #27
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I think you guys should stop focusing on carrying rifles in your cars and spare mags and simply focus on your speed and accuracy.

Look at this guy with the six shot 38 special. Wildalaska can carry as many assault rifles in his truck as he wants. The point is that he wont get within a foot of his truck if he is gunned down. All it takes is a fast draw and an accurate shot.

1 Ole Guy from Mississippi able to hit 4 targets reload and hit the 4 targets again in 3 seconds with a wheelgun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Og9ccsb1v6o

10-15 Sheriff officers with assault weapons firing off multiple rounds and could only hit the suspect's arm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ummnOoSfd54


I think we just need the ole guy from Mississippi. Thats why they always made that guy the Sheriff in all those western movies.
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Old December 27, 2008, 03:00 PM   #28
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Wildalaska can carry as many assault rifles in his truck as he wants.
Wildalaska doesnt want to be stuck someplace in the middle of winter after a devastating 9.0 earthquake without one

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Old December 27, 2008, 03:00 PM   #29
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So, everyone agrees then that there is a logical limit to preparing for a SD situation.
No..not really. I dont.

There is no logic when it comes to a SD situation, so how can one logically prepare for that entirely singular and unique occurance? You would know this if you had ever been in one.

My point is that I am not willing to gamble my life on your one in ten million chance occurrence and have prepared for the occurrence as if it will happen today by carrying a reload.
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Old December 27, 2008, 03:03 PM   #30
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well that depends....

today my off-duty carry is a RIA 1911A1 .38 Super. 9+1 in the gun and two 9 round magazines. If I'm carrying my Colt Cobra I'll carry one speed loader and one Bianchi strip for two reloads. If its the Glock 29 one spare magazine. I don't feel "right" without at least one reload.

I read a fast food shoot out report a few years ago that involved an off-duty officer who had his young daughter with him. They walked into a fast food restaurant and yes, into the middle of an armed robbery; 2 perps. He had a semi-auto with one 12 round magazine and 1 in the chamber and no reloads. In the ensuing gun battle the officer emptied his gun - without knowing if both bad actors were down. Fortunately it worked out ok - one bad guy down, a worker shot (not fatally and by a bad guy not the cop), and the 2nd perp out the door and caught a block or two away...with a loaded gun.

The off-duty officer's biggest fear was that without any more ammo there was not a thing he could do to protect his daughter (and himself) if the other bad guy came at him with a gun....

My off-duty plan is a defensive posture; shoot my way out of trouble; but if for some reason I have to defend myself and not be able to get to safety I want to make sure I have enought ammo to hold out until help arrives.
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Old December 27, 2008, 03:05 PM   #31
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No..not really. I dont.

There is no logic when it comes to a SD situation
I didn't say the situation was logical. It is not. It can't be. Logical people don't attack other people for money or drugs or anger or fun.

I said our preparation for it has to be logical. It HAS TO BE. If it's not we'll have the scenario I outlined above with armored cars and body armor.
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Old December 27, 2008, 03:06 PM   #32
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geez Louise...

...if I have to think about whether I'm armed enough to go somewhere, I just don't go...
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Old December 27, 2008, 03:08 PM   #33
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I said our preparation for it has to be logical. It HAS TO BE. If it's not we'll have the scenario I outlined above with armored cars and body armor.
Okay, then why do you say that my reasoning for choosing to carry a reload is illogical and fanatical? Have there NOT been church, mall and school shootings in the US in recent memory?
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Old December 27, 2008, 03:08 PM   #34
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.if I have to think about whether I'm armed enough to go somewhere, I just don't go...
Yeah, that's kind of my point.
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Old December 27, 2008, 03:11 PM   #35
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i got the pistol. mags at the house, mags on the desk at work, and mags in the console if i need to score on crack street....otherwise i usually leave the mags in the car when i want moon pies and dog biscuits.

if i was an off duty police...maybe id have a different way of looking at percentages.
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Old December 27, 2008, 03:11 PM   #36
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Quote:
.if I have to think about whether I'm armed enough to go somewhere, I just don't go...
Yeah, that's kind of my point.
I'll bet that isn't what those church-goers in Colorado or the teachers at Columbine were thinking...

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Old December 27, 2008, 03:15 PM   #37
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I'll bet that isn't what those church-goers in Colorado or the teachers at Columbine were thinking...

The church situation was resolved by 1 guy who fired less than a full mag of rounds. Columbine could have easily been the same. I'm not advocating NO guns. I've advocating logic.
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Old December 27, 2008, 03:17 PM   #38
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Do you keep a spare tire in your car?
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Old December 27, 2008, 04:02 PM   #39
gyp_c2
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well...

...actually, it was one woman...let's just say one shooter...
And OBTW...you can't carry anything on most school grounds here...No,
They weren't thinking OMG I shoulda' had a spare mag...
I think the point is that you have to decide for yourself what you need...
I don't need anymore weight than one mag for the places I go...YMMV...
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Old December 27, 2008, 04:09 PM   #40
Creature
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And OBTW...you can't carry anything on most school grounds here
And is that logical?

Quote:
They weren't thinking OMG I shoulda' had a spare mag...
My guess is that some were. I bet that at least some VT students where wondering that very thought as well as why they aren't allowed to carry a legal CCW on campus.

But getting back to that spare tire issue...
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Old December 27, 2008, 04:22 PM   #41
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hmmm...

...and your point is?
You equate your spare tire with your carry ammo?
Look dude, do what you want...there were no guns available at Columbine. The one person that had a weapon handy at the church stopped it...No shooters cried and died because of lack of ammo...
If you wanna' climb the box about why...go for it...
We were talking about spare ammo and now you're off into disasters that it didn't apply ...have fun...
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Old December 27, 2008, 04:33 PM   #42
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And is that logical?
No. It's also irrelevant. The logic of satellite arguments does not affect the logic of the central question.

Here's what you're saying, in essence:

"Criminals are illogical, guns laws are illogical, therefore I must carry an extra magazine."

It's like saying "Dogs don't like cats therefore I must go fishing."

The logic of the situation doesn't dictate the NEEDS within that situation. The guy in those church shootings was clearly an illogical psychopath yet he was stopped with less than 1 mag worth of bullets, as are most situations.
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Old December 27, 2008, 04:47 PM   #43
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I must be a skitzod then...

for carrying 2 spare mags. I don't expect to need them, but mags get dented, ect. I like having a couple extra, and if you wind up being that 1 in 1 billion that happens to need it...well better to have it already. Just part of being prepared IMO.
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Old December 27, 2008, 06:05 PM   #44
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yet he was stopped with less than 1 mag worth of bullets, as are most situations.
By your statement, are you are saying that you actively and consciously choose not to be more fully prepared...because you didnt write "ALL situations"?

What I am saying, for the umpteenth time, is that when one plans for a situation, which we are doing when we choose to arm ourselves, we should plan for any as many situations as possible...and needing a reload, while more remote than actually needing a gun in the first place, is STILL a very real possibility. Do the benefits of carrying a spare mag outweigh the risks of not carrying one?

And yes, I do equate carrying a spare magazine the same as keeping a spare tire in the car. I just might need it. Not having it could potentially make a annoying situation a life threatening one.

Last edited by Creature; December 27, 2008 at 06:15 PM.
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Old December 27, 2008, 06:13 PM   #45
Brian Pfleuger
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What I am saying, for the umpteenth time,...

What I'm saying is that there has to be a limit to that preparation. Otherwise, we're all driving armored cars and wearing kevlar. Since we're not, pretty much everyone agrees with me, including you, unless you ARE driving an armored car.


On the spare tire issue? Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. I have a car that I use for drag racing that I don't keep a spare tire in, even when I drive on the street. Am I concerned that I don't have enough tires with me when I drive? No.
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Old December 27, 2008, 06:20 PM   #46
Creature
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What I'm saying is that there has to be a limit to that preparation.
We got that the first time. I am waiting on why you consider carrying a spare mag beyond the limits of what you consider proper preparation.

Quote:
I have a car that I use for drag racing that I don't keep a spare tire in, even when I drive on the street. Am I concerned that I don't have enough tires with me when I drive? No.
That proves nothing because you still run the risk of being stranded by the side of the road with a flat tire whether you're concerned or not.
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Old December 27, 2008, 08:15 PM   #47
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Carry one spare mag, with FMJ. Gun is loaded with JHP. Don't have a BUG, yet. Don't have anymore mags, yet. Prepare how you want, I know if I draw my weapon and fire I want as many rounds as possible with me. As soon as I get more mags I'll load another and carry it. I'll be getting a back up revolver as soon as I can afford it. Ideal carry would be my 870 with plenty of amo, but that's hard to conceal, and impractical to open carry everywhere-I don't like cops pointing guns at me, the guy with the shotgun buying groceries at the city market. Bad guys and cops prepare for how much amo they think they'll need, usually a lot is better than a little. I feel it's prudent to do the same myself. If my neighbor carries one six shooter with no reloads that doesn't bother me, I'm bothered if I don't have my spare mag on me.
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Old December 27, 2008, 08:52 PM   #48
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Peetzkilla its a little hard to follow your logic, if the SHTF I would rather have Creature with his extra mags near me. That is my logic.
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Old December 27, 2008, 09:09 PM   #49
Brian Pfleuger
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Peetzkilla its a little hard to follow your logic, if the SHTF...

Yep, so would I. However, I'm willing to bet that the S will not hit the F to that degree. I'm not saying that you shouldn't carry spare mags. In fact, I've said do whatever you want. What I'm also saying is that the odds of ever needing them are vanishing small. So ridiculously vanishingly small that it makes me think people that are uncomfortable not having a spare mag are a bit paranoid. It's really simple. Carry your spare mags. Really, I don't care but if you go to dinner with your wife and find yourself thinking "Damn, I forgot my extra mag...damn, damn, damn I hope I don't need it." Well, then you might be a little paranoid.

I'm also trying to explain that we are all drawing a line in the sand somewhere. Some people think that simply carrying a gun is crazy. Some people think carrying a spare mag is unnecessary. Some people want to wear kevlar to go to the grocery store. SOMEWHERE before the kevlar vest (in America anyway) logic ends and paranoia begins. Now, I don't necessarily think a spare mag is paranoid but it crosses cleanly into the "I'll likely never ever need it in 3 lifetimes" category.
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-Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.

Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; December 27, 2008 at 09:14 PM.
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Old December 27, 2008, 10:15 PM   #50
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I carry one extra 17 round mag for my Glock 26. I also have 10+1 in the weapon.

I carry Federal Tactical HST HP.
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