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Old December 15, 2008, 07:44 PM   #1
nate45
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The .375 H&H far out classes lesser deer cartridges.

I've seen couple of threads lately about what is best all around cartridge or what bullet makes the better wound channel on deer, well for my money it is the .375 H&H Magnum. If you can shoot it well and take the recoil, lesser rounds don't even come close.

Ha you say, you don't need a .375 H&H to kill deer, elk or even bears here in N. America. Thats very true you most certainly do not, all I'm saying is that if you want superior penetration and wound channel, the ability to reach the heart/lung area from any angle, to shoot through light cover, brush, etc without deflection, then the .375 H&H will do all that and more, all with less meat destruction than the high velocity .30 calibers.

Over the years I haven't limited myself to hunting with one or just a few calibers, I've killed big game with many different cartridges from the high powered .22s to the .458 Winchester and my thoughts on the .375 H&H are from actual experience and the writings of the greatest rifle hunters of modern times.

Let me give you a few examples white tail deer, I'm not sure exactly how many white tails I've killed, but the number exceeds 100. Three of those I shot with the .375 H&H and the performance was terrific on them all. The largest one I shot with it was approximately 110-120 yards. It was an 8 point that field dressed at 240+ pounds, I got him through and through both shoulders, and he traveled less than 5 yards before he went down. It made a terrific wound channel and although I could not recover the bullet expansion had to be good.

Elk, I'm no great authority on elk hunting and have only killed four, two with a .338 Winchester Magnum, one with a .300 Weatherby and one with the .375 H&H. Let me tell you that although they all worked well the .375 did an excellent job. Like on the deer I used a 270 grain Hornaday spire point and it worked great.


from the left... .375 H&H, .338 Winchester Magnum, .300 Wea Mag, 7 mm Rem Mag, .270 Wea Mag, .257 Wea Mag.

I hand loaded all of the above cartridges and have used them on big game, they are all terrific rounds, I didn't picture any lesser rounds, because anything say for example that a .270 Win can do, a .270 Wea can do better. Of the above rounds the superior one is the .375 H&H, for ranges out to 300 yards, of the others only the .338 comes close and you really don't get the same kind of expansion with it on deer till you drop down to the 200/210 grain bullet.

So all in all in my opinion for deer to elephants, the 'best' all around cartridge is the .375 H&H, none of the lesser rounds offer anywhere near the same versatility.

Whether it's plowing through the thick hide of a russian boar, taking a shot at the buck or bull elk of a lifetime, or facing down a brown bear you will never have to worry about the .375 H&H doing its part, if you do yours.

Think I'm all wet and your favorite cartridge is the 'best' or most versatile for big game? Consider these quotes from Jack O'Connor the famous proponent of the .270 Winchester.

"THE .375 H&H MAGNUM
But the queen of the medium bores is the .375 H&H Magnum, one of the world's most useful and widely distributed cartridges, and probably the best all-around cartridge ever devised." -- Jack O'Connor


"And there isn't any doubt that a good big gun is better than a good little gun - if it's properly handled." -- Jack O'Connor

You can read a lot more quotes, made by famous rifle experts, about the .375 here...

The All Around Rifle

So the next time someone asks you what the best all around big game rifle cartridge is, don't tell them the same old tired bs about the .30-06 or .308, tell them the truth that it's the awesome .375 H&H Magnum.
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Old December 15, 2008, 08:09 PM   #2
Jseime
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I am not going to deny that the .375H&H is a great round... it is a great round. The thing is that it is really overkill for deer.

.270 is a fast, flat shooter that can be used on game larger than deer including Elk and Moose and even some things bigger. The round has all kinds of flat trajectory, tons of speed and hits hard enough to knock down the biggest of the big deer with a single round.

A .375H&H is not, in my opinion a good deer round... it is too big and does a lot of damage, its not available most places, and the rifles chambered in it are too high-end for joe average to afford.


The .270 Winchester, if not the best deer rifle in NA is pretty close, A .375 is just way too much.

If you want the most versatile round in NA go around the country to the little backwoods hardware stores and small town gunshops... look on the shelves and see what the easiest caliber to find is at every place you go... thats right .30-06 Springfield.

Sorry boss... the .375H&H is not practical in most parts of North America in my opinion, take it for what you will.
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Old December 15, 2008, 08:29 PM   #3
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Quote:
So the next time someone asks you what the best all around big game rifle cartridge is, don't tell them the same old tired bs about the .30-06 or .308, tell them the truth that it's the awesome .375 H&H Magnum.
And deer started growing to 2000 plus pounds when You are the FIRST person I've EVER heard consider deer a big game....

Problem is the 375 actions are big and heavy, and, if you can kill an elephant with a 286 grain, 9.3 x 62, or 9.3 x 74R, with no recoil, in a 6.5 pound double, why do I need a 10.5 pound CZ 550 in 375?

The best thing about the 375, in a long action, is it can be converted to actually use it's potential, AKA the .458 Lott, or .475 Ackley. 500 grains at 2400 fps IS a big game round, not the wimpy little penetrator 375 H&H....
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Old December 15, 2008, 08:30 PM   #4
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Buddy of mine had a .375 H&H and wanted me to shoot it. Course i was glad to. Got a little to tight on the old redfield wideveiw and i now proudly wear the half moon scar forever.

As for a deer round, i'm for anything that will put them down quick. I'm sure the .375 with a good hit will do that..J.R.
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Old December 15, 2008, 08:58 PM   #5
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At ranges of less than 200 yards I’d rather be using a 45-70 firing Garrett +Ps.
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Old December 15, 2008, 11:43 PM   #6
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You scoff at the 375 H&H as a deer rifle. I use to hunt on the coast of Alaska, Lots of little Sitka Black tails there. Yeah they are small but there are critters in the area that arn't. Those big bears like to steal you deer kills. Anyway the 375 zips right through those deer without doing a lot of damage. And you are ready to take on the critters that might want your deer. Beats carrying two rifles.

I still carry mine sometimes elk hunting when I'm backing up my grandkids with their smaller rifles. I make my own jacketed bullets for my 375, really cuts down of the cost. Just use 3/8s copper tubing. Place them in the mode and pour in the lead. I then run them through a 375 bullet sizer to make sure they are perfectly round. Suckers shoot pretty good.

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Old December 15, 2008, 11:50 PM   #7
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I've never shot one. That said, I know why I'll never use one for deer.

Too much recoil. Too much flinch. Recoil=flinch=missed deer.

I suppose that's a problem with the shooter, not the round, but it still means that....the .308 Winchester is a much better deer round than the .375 mag.
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Old December 15, 2008, 11:56 PM   #8
.300 Weatherby Mag
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.375's don't kick that bad... I've shot a 6.5#, 375 and it did not kick as bad as my 7# .300 weatherby... The .375 recoil is more of a push than the sharp bite of a .300 weatherby...
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Old December 15, 2008, 11:57 PM   #9
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Quote:
...to shoot through light cover, brush, etc without deflection...
This has been tested. The two variables that affect the amount of deflection most are:

How far the deflecting object is in front of the target. The farther it is from the target the more the deflection.

How the bullet hits the deflecting object. If it hits the object directly it will tend to cut through it with minimum deflection. If it grazes the object or hits it a glancing blow the deflection will be much greater.

Caliber had some effect, but these two factors were by far the most important.
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Old December 16, 2008, 12:09 AM   #10
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I'm just having a bit of trouble wrapping my feeble brain around the concept of the .375 as an all around deer rifle cartridge, at least here in the lower 48. I'm sure the .416 Rigby or .460 Wby Mag or .50 BMG would do the job as well. Why aren't they in the discussion?
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Old December 16, 2008, 12:23 AM   #11
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375 IS an excellent deer round. No question. So is my .475 Ackley, with a 325 grain bullet at 2900-3100 fps. So would be a 458 Lott, with a 300 grain bullet, at 2900 fps.

You may shoot deer with a 375, and it will work very well.
You may also shoot, and kill elephant with a 308, or 7.62 x 39. Probably more killed with those calibers then all others combined.

In a titanium action, or some sort of lightweight action, the 375 with a light bullet, at high velocity, would make an excellent deer round.

The 375 IS the most versatile medium-big bore, at the most reasonable cost. It is however, about twice the recoil of a .308, twice the cost, and, dead deer is dead deer.

Also, 375 H&H DOES recoil, depending on the ammunition used. MY federal 270 grain stuff does kick, as does the Weatherby 300 grain softpoints...
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Old December 16, 2008, 12:36 AM   #12
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Its a good cartridge for deer and elk in grizzly country... If yogi wants to play, a .375 would nice to have....
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Old December 16, 2008, 01:37 AM   #13
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I don't know, my 9.3x62 will do everything the op listed....

But nothing wrong with the 375 H&H, it's been there and done that too.

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Old December 16, 2008, 04:25 AM   #14
nate45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jseime
The thing is that it is really overkill for deer.
I wasn't aware that it killed deer too dead. I know what you mean, but it is not 'too' powerful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jseime
The .270 Winchester, if not the best deer rifle in NA is pretty close, A .375 is just way too much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jseime
A .375H&H is not, in my opinion a good deer round... it is too big and does a lot of damage
I appreciate the fact that the .270 Win is your favorite cartridge, I have my favorites too. I think though if you do a little research you will find that the .375 H&H is less destructive on deer size game not more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socrates
You are the FIRST person I've EVER heard consider deer a big game....
I fairly certain, that if you do a little checking, you will find that white tail deer are considered big game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socrates
The best thing about the 375, in a long action, is it can be converted to actually use it's potential, AKA the .458 Lott, or .475 Ackley. 500 grains at 2400 fps IS a big game round, not the wimpy little penetrator 375 H&H....
I won my million dollar bet I made that Socrates would come along and say the .375 H&H was too small and start talking about .40 and .50 caliber rifles.

Here is a good quote I found for you to mull over from the Hodgdon reloading manual...

Some say the .375 Holland & Holland Magnum is our all time greatest big game cartridge. Others say it is neither fish nor fowl, too big for deer and too little for really big stuff. But one indisputable fact remains; The .375 H&H will drop a deer with less meat damage than a .270 and has probably accounted for more dangerous game up to the size of Cape Buffalo and elephant than any other large caliber cartridge.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fremmer
Too much recoil. Too much flinch. Recoil=flinch=missed deer.

I suppose that's a problem with the shooter, not the round, but it still means that....the .308 Winchester is a much better deer round than the .375 mag.
You are correct about the recoil, that is one of the .375 H&Hs biggest detriments. Since you have never fired one, to give you an idea of the recoil, it recoils more than twice as much as the .30-06 with 180 grain bullets. Not intolerable, but more than most people want to endure.

I like the .308 Winchester as well, if I could only keep one rifle, it would probably be my Winchester pre 64 Model 70 Featherweight in .308. I don't think, I know that I could kill any game in North America with it. I prefer the .308 to the .30-06 as the all around cartridge over the .30-06, because the .308 is a more inherently accurate cartridge. Both are fine cartridges though, but they are not in the same class as or kill with the devastating power that the .375 H&H does and is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnKSa
This has been tested. The two variables that affect the amount of deflection most are:

How far the deflecting object is in front of the target. The farther it is from the target the more the deflection.

How the bullet hits the deflecting object. If it hits the object directly it will tend to cut through it with minimum deflection. If it grazes the object or hits it a glancing blow the deflection will be much greater.

Caliber had some effect, but these two factors were by far the most important.
You are 100% correct John, and when I said light cover, I meant very light. Twigs, etc that would deflect smaller caliber high velocity rounds like the .270 Wea, etc.

I'm not sure of the test you are referring to, but I saw one test in which they used wooden dowels of various diameters and the .50 BMG was the only round that got through on a regular basis.

The myth of the woods rifle that shoots through limbs, branches, etc (and I've even heard some claim trees) is just that a myth.

"As much as I like the .375, I have never seen much use for it in North America, except for hunting the big Alaskan brown bear. However, if anyone wants to use it on elk, moose or grizzly, I am not going to take exception. It is a hard-hitting, flat-shooting cartridge, for which I have scored a higher percentage of one-shot, in-the-tracks kills on medium to large soft-skinned game than with any other cartridge." -- Jack O'Connor

Listen everyone I'm not suggesting that everyone run out and buy a .375 H&H for deer hunting, but facts are facts and the fact is that calibers less than .375 can't do the things it does as well as it does them. Larger? Now thats a different story, a .416 Weatherby Magnum with 350 grain bullets @ 2900 fps would take everything in the world with behind or through the shoulder heart lung shots and that includes elephants.
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Old December 16, 2008, 05:09 AM   #15
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Just an educated guess, but, I'd say that the commercial factory rounds for the 375 suffer from the same high pressure, max loads that the 454 Casull does.
I think if loaded to 40k, or really, 9.3 X 62 specs, or just a bit faster, that big case would give you the same thing the Nitro Expresses do, low pressure, and, longer recoil, with a relatively mild push.

Another alternative is just to move to a lighter bullet: say an Impala 220 grain spire point, or something that is light and expands. It doesn't have to go 3200 fps, 2400 fps is just fine, at least for white tail deer. I've heard the same Nate45 is saying, that the light fast rounds are TOO fast, damaging too much meat.

The bottom line is the 375 H&H case is a great case to handload, and, can be adapted easily to take any big game animal. Stop is another matter.

Also, 375 is avaliable around here in far greater quantity then 9.3 x 62, but, the 9.3 recoils like a 22 in comparision, and, a dead deer is a dead deer. Also, since it's slower then the 375, yet flat to 200 yards, it's going to damage even less meat, but, it's still a dead deer. Two of my gunsmiths are taking doubles, 9.3 x 74R to Africa, as their primary hunting rifles. It is a low pressure round, 286 grain bullet, at about 2200-2400 fps. The guns weigh nothing, recoil nothing, yet kill like the 375 H&H.

I'm not real sure about the 375 as the most killing big game cartridge. First, it's not, really. Second, it was a rich mans cartridge for a long time, and, smaller military calibers, with percise shot placement, 7x57 and .303, not to mention the 9.3's, were much more plentiful, and, in Africa a much better option for the common man then a fancy 375.

I think K. Bell killed something like 500k elephants with the lighter cartridges, and, percise accuracy. That's a big lead for the smaller cartridges.

MY point is, just as advertized, the 375 is an excellent cartridge, for an all around, non-handloader, for just about anything. It is matched, pretty much, by the 9.3's, however, they cannot move 350 grain bullets at adequate velocity.

Also, .375 is the minimum bullet size for some countries for hunting dangerous game, in Africa. Having bought one, with some fantasy about Africa, I still think I made a good choice. If I had it to do over, I would have bought both of the display CZ 550's in .375, and converted one to 475 Ackley, 500 grain bullet, 2400 fps, or, 600 grain bullet
at 2150 fps, all I really ever want to shoot, and, the other as a 375.

Second option is a 458 lott, or .475 Ackley, since both can do anything the 375 H&H can do, at lower capacity, with pretty much the same mag capacity.

Combine either of the big guns with the 9.3's, and the combination is better then one 375. However, for a handloader, with a pro-hunter backing him, in a 9.5 pound CZ 550 one could easily load elephant capable rounds that would recoil considerably less then factory ammo, or, at least that's my theory, yet still penetrate sideways on elephants...

There is another argument that the .404/375, .375 RUM, etc. 300 grains at 2700 fps, with soft points, or Barnes X bullets kill like a 458 Lott on buffalo sized animals, down, and, elephants still die as well, with great shot placement.
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Old December 16, 2008, 05:15 AM   #16
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Quote:
I'm not sure of the test you are referring to, but I saw one test in which they used wooden dowels of various diameters and the .50 BMG was the only round that got through on a regular basis.
I read that one. There was another one where they used some bushes/brush to try to get a more realistic test.

Even the lightest cover would result in deflection with the amount of deflection dependent mostly on the two factors I mentioned above.

Boddington writes about a Cape Buffalo hunt in his book "Safari Rifles". He was using a rifle in .470 caliber and got a shot at a Buff. The critter departed at the shot and Boddington was dismayed to find no blood trail. He was mystified until he found a "pencil-like vine" (his description) that his bullet had clipped on the way to the target. The small vine had deflected the large, heavy bullet enough that it had missed the Buff cleanly.

Shooting through any kind of cover with any caliber is very risky unless the cover is right on top of the target. There are no practical calibers that will give you enough of an edge to make it an ethical shot.
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Old December 16, 2008, 05:48 AM   #17
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Why use a cartridge rated for elephant if you are mainly hunting deer? Winchester even puts little drawings on the boxes of ammunition so people wont get confused.
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Old December 16, 2008, 06:09 AM   #18
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I wasn't aware that it killed deer too dead.
Ahh, but this could be turned around to say that since there are no degrees of dead a 375 H&H does not kill a deer any deader than a 308. LOL!!

I have shot a 375 in a Ruger No 1 model rifle that a buddy had once and yeah recoil was pretty stout. I'm sure that I could have used it for deer if need be but I cannot see any reason that I would want to. There are no Brown bears here in Alabama to attack you as you stand over your deer. Also I like to shoot any gun I own a lot in order to be the best I can be with it and the prospect of 45 to 50 dollar a box ammo doesn't exactly thrill my soul. Not to mention that whole retinal detachment risk. Another downside is that most stores here "might" have one type of 375 H&H ammo in stock but they certainly will not have two.

About the only possitives I could say is that with those big heavy slow bullets, penetration would be total from any angle and it would probably be an eat right up to the hole type wound channel.
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Old December 16, 2008, 06:10 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnKSa
Shooting through any kind of cover with any caliber is very risky unless the cover is right on top of the target. There are no practical calibers that will give you enough of an edge to make it an ethical shot.
I'll go along with that, you have not posted any bad info that I have seen and I'm quite familiar with Craig Boddington and his vast experience with rifles. The next time someone asks me which big game cartridge is good for shooting through bushes, tree branches, etc I'll tell them 'none of them are'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socrates
The bottom line is the 375 H&H case is a great case to hand load, and, can be adapted easily to take any big game animal. Stop is another matter.
You bring up some really good points about .375 H&H factory ammo and the value of hand loading it.


For example on the left is a Winchester 270 grain factor load, to the right is my hand load with the Hornaday 270 grain spire point. Not only does the Hornaday bullet have a better ballistic shape to it, the structure of it also offers better expansion on smaller game. The versatility of the .375 H&H and hence its suitability for a wider range of game is greatly enhanced by hand loading.

I included a pic of my new toy the .300 Remington Ultra Mag and a .308 Winchester for comparision.

The .300 RUM has a very large case capacity and at least in the 700 BDL I have a seemingly tremendous amount of recoil. I'm not sure I would enjoy shooting the .375 RUM, but I would.

Since JohnKSa mentioned Craig Boddington, here is one of the many things he has to say about the great .375 H&H...

"[I]f I could have two cartridges to hunt the world, I'd be quite happy with the .30-06 and the .375 H&H. And if I could have just one cartridge to hunt the world over, my only answer is the .375." -- Craig Boddington



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Old December 16, 2008, 06:49 AM   #20
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And I thought Cervalces scotti was extinct!
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Old December 16, 2008, 08:01 AM   #21
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I've never shot anything bigger than the .375 Ruger and H&H to tell you the truth while the recoil is noticeable and neither are a pleasure to shoot from the bench, the impulse is pretty slow with both of them. So it feels more like a heavy push more than a rapid blow. The Ruger has slightly more recoil than the H&H but it is going 150-200 fps faster. If you can handle the recoil of an un-braked .300 Win Mag and up you can handle the recoil of a .375 H&H.

I've never killed anything with my Ruger yet but even on deer or smaller I really doubt it will do much meat damage. I shot my pronghorn this year with my .338-06 and a 200 grain bullet traveling nearly 2900 fps at the muzzle. I can tell you this there was far less meat damage than the ones I've shot with my .270 and .243 Win rifles. There wasn't nearly the trauma though either to the lungs as my doe went about 75 yards about twice the distance I've had a properly shot pronghorn run with a lighter caliber.

The 270 grain bullet just has too much mass for a little old deer to stop. You can recover a bullet from .30-06 with more frequency from a deer than you ever will with a .375 H&H. Is it too much overkill? There can only be one kind of dead so use the tool that gets it done for you.

There certainly are no fleas on a .375 H&H.
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Old December 16, 2008, 08:27 AM   #22
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1st off... I love the 375 H&H... mine is a Browning stainless stalker with a BOSS...

however, as "good as the 375 H&H can / could kill deer" I'd say it's far from the optimum cartridge for that game...

Quote:
then the .375 H&H will do all that and more, all with less meat destruction than the high velocity .30 calibers.
maybe less damaged meat than a hyper velocity 30 caliber, but ( as the new guy in my father in laws deer camp ) many years ago, I did all the field dressing of the deer for several years, so I have a very good "eye deer" what you are talking about... one old hunter used a 300 Win Mag, & the blood shot areas on his deer were as large as anything I've ever seen on deer... however, the 30-30 at it's much lower velocity does a great job, yet had one of the smallest blood shot areas ( less wasted meat ) of the cartridges used, that I've field dressed the deer, as did ( suprisingly ) the 45-70

now niether of those cartridges are "typically" longer range cartridges, but I have seen the 45-70 drop them like rocks at 200 yards

Quote:
I got him through and through both shoulders, and he traveled less than 5 yards before he went down. It made a terrific wound channel and although I could not recover the bullet expansion had to be good.
a shot like that, would have wasted around 1/3 of the meat on a white tail deer... a through & through on the front rib cage would have wasted much much less meat, & required much less cartridge ( for example, a 44 mag through a handgun would through & through the rib cage on a deer, & kill the deer just as effectively... if I were hunting dangerous game, I want the abiliy to crush massive bone & muscle but if I'm hunting an animal that might have 60 lbs of meat on the carcass, I'm not willing to waste 1/3 of it...
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Old December 16, 2008, 08:41 AM   #23
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The .375 H&H is a great round. While the recoil is stout, I certainly don't find it "too much" recoil and it will certainly kill a deer. My buddy bought a Ruger No 1 in .375 a few years ago and shot a doe with it last year. The exit wound, a 270 gr softpoint, was the size of a half dollar.

But, just because it will kill a deer doesn't mean that its the best deer round. I think expensive ($50 a box for Remington), scarce ammo and the fact that the recoil is much more harsh than say a 30.06 makes it a poor choice for a deer rifle for the average hunter.

If you dream of going to Africa or Alaska one day, a .375 H&H could be a justified purchase. If you only plan on walking into the backwoods and shooting deer, a 30.06 or .308 is a much better choice.
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Old December 16, 2008, 10:00 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum Wheel Man
a shot like that, would have wasted around 1/3 of the meat on a white tail deer...
1/3 of the meat? There is really only one good strip of meat on a deer shoulder, but I guess if you like tough meat and gristle the rest of the shoulders are good too. I personally don't even bother gutting deer any more, I only save the hams and the back strap. You miss getting the tenderloins, but they aren't very big any way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum Wheel Man
for example, a 44 mag through a handgun would through & through the rib cage on a deer, & kill the deer just as effectively...
If you hit the main artery, it might not go to far, but a shot that only goes through both lungs, while fatal, is (other than missing the CNS or heart/lung area) is the main reason they sometimes run so far. A shot through the shoulder blade, will severely incapacitate them and is also covering the heart and a mass of main arteries.



Look at the above diagram it helps to better illustrate my point. It has been my experience that a shot high on the back that delivers good shock to the spine, or a shot low behind the point of the shoulder that solidly hits the heart and/or the major blood vessels; brings down a deer quicker than a shot in the middle of the lungs that misses the major artery. However a shot with a powerful rifle that goes through the shoulder blade and into the heart/lung area is very effective at limiting the distance a deer runs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreyzhorse
just because it will kill a deer doesn't mean that it's the best deer round. I think expensive ($50 a box for Remington), scarce ammo and the fact that the recoil is much more harsh than say a 30.06 makes it a poor choice for a deer rifle for the average hunter.
I never claim that it is the 'best' deer rifle or that the average person is better off with it, only that in the role of a deer rifle it outclasses lesser rounds and it does. Also only the hand loader will benefit from the better structured bullets that are more suitable for deer sized animals.
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Old December 16, 2008, 10:23 AM   #25
Magnum Wheel Man
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as a hunter I'm sure you'll agree... hunting wild animals you can see some crazy stuff...

I have a buddy I was hunting with in shot gun zone, that hit a deer broadside just beind the front shoulders with a 12 gauge slug, the slug hit a solid rib 3/4 up the side of the deer, on the way in, & litterally blew both lungs through a hole on the back side in size between a baseball & softball... showering a 10ft circle behind the deer with blood & lung pieces, yet the deer ran ( up hill ) almost a 1/4 mile before it stopped... that same shot with anything including a 50 BMG wouldn't have likely netted any better results...

I'm partial to venision jerky, & burger, we use all the meat on the animal, even the heart if it's undamaged
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