The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: General

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 9, 2008, 08:47 AM   #1
bryceh12321
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 9, 2008
Posts: 136
Looking for Velocity AND Power

Hey, I've been looking around all morning for a round that suits my needs. The only one that has come even close to my liking was ridiculously priced as far as ammo goes. I like the speed of the 22-250, but it doesn't quite have the energy that I am looking for. I like the power of other rounds, but the lower velocity turns me off. Looking for a powerful round that has an extremely FLAT trajectory. Any recommendations?

And a common round would be best, because I'm not interested into dropping 50$ for a box of ammo.

Thanks alot.
bryceh12321 is offline  
Old December 9, 2008, 09:11 AM   #2
j.chappell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2008
Posts: 1,125
What shooting are you doing that you need that "Next County Cannon"?

Velocity is not all that it is cracked up to be. I too, when I was younger, wanted the fastest and flattest cartridge in all calibers but then a funny thing happened. I became ballistically educated.

Don’t get me wrong, I still like speed but no longer find it at the top of my list. I have come to realize that accuracy and consistency is key and most calibers kill exceptionally well, and even better, at medium velocities.

I am now way fonder of the medium to large bore calibers in medium to low range velocities. They impart less damage not only to the game animal but also to me.

I like fast flat cartridges, but rarely grab for one unless my shots are going to be at varmints or a possible shot at a game animal at 300+ yards.

This of course is just my opinion.

J.
j.chappell is offline  
Old December 9, 2008, 09:31 AM   #3
texfar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 27, 2004
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 404
j.chappell echoed my sentiments pretty much exactly lately. Although I have some high speed cannons, with my situation currently, they have seen limited action back home. Same question as j.chappell, what is your intended use? Specific or one kinda general all round?
Ken
texfar is offline  
Old December 9, 2008, 09:51 AM   #4
taylorce1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2005
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 5,285
+1 to the above comment. I find you don't really need a 4000 fps capable rifle for a hunting or long range target shooting rig. Even then it will be tough to reach the 3000 fps with any cartridge you will deem affordable. Your best bet would be a .243 Win, .25-06, .270 Win, and 7mm Rem Mag if you want to push bullets a little ways past 3000 fps that has more power than the .22-250 that are affordable.

Quote:
I'm not interested into dropping 50$ for a box of ammo.
You had better learn to hand load if you really have to have it all (speed and power) then you better be prepared to spend a lot of money to get it. You are going to be looking at cartridges like the .30-378 & .338-378 Weatherby and 7mm, .300, & .338 RUM if you are going to be working with commercial ammunition. Again some of these are capable of getting over 3000 fps by quite a bit but are very expensive to feed.
taylorce1 is offline  
Old December 9, 2008, 09:52 AM   #5
Bitmap
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 12, 2001
Posts: 388
Quote:
I've been looking around all morning for a round that suits my needs.
We aren't sure exactly what your needs are.

Are you looking for a long range rifle for varmints? A long range rifle for big game, and if so, how big? How about long range target competition? Maybe you just want bragging rights? I'm not knocking any of these motivations, but you're asking for advice without telling us what you are really trying to accomplish.

Quote:
And a common round would be best, because I'm not interested into dropping 50$ for a box of ammo.
This pretty much takes the .338 Lapua, .416 Barrett, and .50 BMG off the list. The problem here is that performance has costs associated with it. Money for the firearm, ammunition, and optics is a big cost. Recoil, noise, and barrel wear are other costs.

If you really need or really want high performance then you will probably have to pay more for the ammo and the rifle and the scope.
Bitmap is offline  
Old December 9, 2008, 09:57 AM   #6
Sportdog
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 28, 2006
Location: Southwestern Michigan
Posts: 369
.243 Winchester, 6mm Remington, 25-06 I believe are very good cartridges and the ammo is decent priced. Check out the ballistic tables and you will see for yourself. You will find that the heavier bullets of these cartridges have higher ballistic coefficients and they may not start out with the speed of the 22-250, they come close and the extra weight bullet gives you the extra power you are after.
Sportdog is offline  
Old December 9, 2008, 09:53 PM   #7
MaxHeadSpace
Junior member
 
Join Date: December 8, 2008
Posts: 129
Get yourself a .458 Win. Mag. or .458 Lott. Learn how to reload it because a box of 20 runs about $120.

Plenty of power, not half bad velocity for a nearly half inch diameter, 500 gr. bullet -- about 2,200 fps.

Very popular elephant stopper in Africa.
MaxHeadSpace is offline  
Old December 9, 2008, 10:45 PM   #8
armedtotheteeth
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 3, 2005
Location: podunk, Texas
Posts: 1,610
300 Win Mag.
right now, a box of decent shells runs you about 26$. I load my own for about 60 cents a piece, that is with 180 Gn Hornday SSTs. They easily break the 3000 FPS line by 200 FPS . LOTS OF POWER!! It s worth a look.
Look at the Armalite Ar-30 .. if you dare.
armedtotheteeth is offline  
Old December 9, 2008, 11:43 PM   #9
danweasel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 26, 2008
Location: Fairbanks, AK
Posts: 191
Now that is a fairly good combination of speed and power. Do they mag 20rd mags for it? Hahaha.
__________________
When I came back to Dublin I was courtmartialed in my absence and sentenced to death in my absence, so I said they could shoot me in my absence.
- Brendan Behan
danweasel is offline  
Old December 10, 2008, 02:01 AM   #10
Scorch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2006
Location: Washington state
Posts: 11,340
Get a 243. It has speed, power, trajectory, accuracy, and is one of the cheaper rounds to shoot. Not cheap to shoot, just cheaper than some others.
__________________
Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs.
But what do I know?
Summit Arms Services
Taylor Machine
Scorch is offline  
Old December 10, 2008, 02:14 AM   #11
Socrates
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 5, 2005
Location: East Bay NorCal, People's Republik of Kalifornia
Posts: 5,866
.475 Ackley....
Socrates is offline  
Old December 10, 2008, 02:20 AM   #12
BobR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 4, 2000
Location: The Dry Side of WA
Posts: 561
Looking for speed and energy......

.416 Rigby

300gr Barnes x, 2970/5875 @ the muzzle.

bob
__________________
Sarcasm.....just one more service I offer.
BobR is offline  
Old December 10, 2008, 02:31 AM   #13
JohnnyCash1979
Member
 
Join Date: January 20, 2008
Posts: 21
Try a .225 Winchester or a .264 Winchester 2 of the greatest rounds ever made!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JohnnyCash1979 is offline  
Old December 10, 2008, 09:58 AM   #14
Art Eatman
Staff Lead
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX, USA
Posts: 22,043
Probably wouldn't hurt if the OP spoke of intended use.

Hard to compare, say, a .204 and a .300 RUM. They both have speed, but there's a wee tad of disparity in the power.
__________________
You're from BATFE? Come right in! I use all your fine products!
Art Eatman is offline  
Old December 10, 2008, 10:44 AM   #15
ZeroJunk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 14, 2006
Location: Browns Summit NC
Posts: 2,461
A 243 Win or 270 Win will be the cheapest and easiest to find. They are reasonably fast in the scheme of things. Any move up is going to run the price up a lot quicker than the velocity gained.
ZeroJunk is offline  
Old December 10, 2008, 02:45 PM   #16
speakerguy79
Member
 
Join Date: June 29, 2008
Posts: 80
.270 can do 3400fps in factory loadings (110gr), and 3600 in hand loads(90gr). Federal has the 110gr loading on its website.
speakerguy79 is offline  
Old December 10, 2008, 03:13 PM   #17
ken22250
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 26, 2008
Location: Pennsylvaina
Posts: 217
it has been said, but velocity is not much of a good judge oflong range performance, a .257 Wby Mag is extreemly flat shooting ( sighted in 3"high my 257 drops a 100gr. TSX bullet 4" below point of aim at 400yards, thats really, really flat. but if you load and dont want to spend that kind of $ for ammo/components, a 6.5/06 is very good, as is the 6.5-284 norma, the .264 win mag is good (ive never been a fan of the Winchester magnum cartridges, but the .264 seems good), if you are looking for a varmint/predator rifle, a .243, 6mm rem, 6mm Ackley Imp, .224 TTH, .220rocket, .220 swift, .22-250, .22-250 Ackley Imp, your choices are nearly endless, these are some long range rounds ive had success with.
ken
ken22250 is offline  
Old December 10, 2008, 11:35 PM   #18
ndking1126
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 26, 2008
Location: One house left of my neig
Posts: 1,624
I would recommend the .25-06. It seems to be what the .243 would be if it found some of the juice Barry Bonds took.

Some of the lighter bullet weights are pretty fast and have good energy and are pretty flat. The heavier bullets are roughly as fast as the .243 but offer considerably more energy.

Price is reasonable compared to other bullets.
__________________
The Jeep has been a lot of fun, but time to come back to my first hobby.. shooting.

Last edited by ndking1126; December 10, 2008 at 11:40 PM.
ndking1126 is offline  
Old December 10, 2008, 11:52 PM   #19
Swampghost
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2008
Location: Florida, east coast
Posts: 2,106
Not yet mentioned, the .300 Wby. Mag., a flat shooting, forceful rifle.
__________________
NRA Patron Member
Swampghost is offline  
Old December 10, 2008, 11:55 PM   #20
Jimro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 18, 2006
Posts: 5,288
I'm surprised someone didn't mention the 460 Weatherby Magnum.

Jimro
__________________
"Gorsh" said Goofy as secondary explosions racked the beaten zone, "Did I do that?"

http://randomthoughtsandguns.blogspot.com/
Jimro is offline  
Old December 11, 2008, 12:23 AM   #21
MTMilitiaman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2004
Location: NW Montana
Posts: 1,875
Cartridges exist which can give you what you need, but there is a price to be paid. First, you'll have to deal with the recoil and the blast. Some of the recoil can be dissipated by increasing rifle weight and using a muzzle brake, but this increases blast in most cases, and makes the rifle less handy and portable.

Next, you'll have to accept the prices associated with ammo. Even if you handload, the brass is going to cost more, more than likely have fewer cycles, and you're going to burn through a lot more powder. Eight pounds of powder goes twice as fast when you're dumping 100 grains as opposed to 50 grains. So either way, you're going to pay more for ammunition. There is no way around it.

Third, high velocities and large doses of powder means less barrel life. Again, you can keep the barrel as cool as possible, maintain a good cleaning regiment with proper technique, and do everything in your power to prolong the inevitable, but in the end, there's really not much you can do.

So in terms of trajectory, velocity, and downrange energy, you're probably looking for a 7mm, .30 cal, or .338 caliber magnum starting with the 7mm Rem Mag and going all the way up to the .338-378 Weatherby or the Lazzeroni magnums. Look into the 7mm STW. There's also the 7mm Rem Ultra Mag, but its really overbore and I think you'd be better off stepping up in diameter by that point. You can consider the .300 Win, .300 Weatherby, .300 RUM, .300-378 Weatherby, ect, with many of the same cases being adopted to .338 caliber magnums as well--.340 Weatherby, .338 RUM, .338-378 Weatherby.

You're probably going to be lucky to find a box of premium ammo that will take advantage of any of these cartridge's ballistics and allow you to achieve an appreciable advantage with them for $50. My dad manages to reload his .338 RUM for about $3 a round. That equates to $60 a box or just below in his case. But factory ammo loaded with similar components can easily cost much more. I reload my 7mm Rem Mag for less than $1.5 a round, last time I checked. Rising component prices may have increased that a bit.

You're not going to get cheap, high performance ammo from a high-velocity magnum. Sorry to burst your bubble...
__________________
"...nothing says 'I WILL shoot every last one of you before you have time to reconsider your poor choices in life' like an AK."
~Dave R.
MTMilitiaman is offline  
Old December 11, 2008, 01:00 AM   #22
Waterengineer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 7, 2006
Location: Aurora, CO and Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 861
As I was recently told on this board, you have to pay to play!
Waterengineer is offline  
Old December 11, 2008, 01:19 AM   #23
.300 Weatherby Mag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 6, 2008
Posts: 1,767
^^^^

I wonder who said that???
.300 Weatherby Mag is offline  
Old December 11, 2008, 08:11 AM   #24
ryalred
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 24, 2008
Location: SE Oklahoma
Posts: 491
I vote for the .257 Wby Mag, but you need to reload to be able to afford to shoot it. I love mine. It is extremely flat shooting and has lots of energy.
__________________
ryalred
rifle & muzzleloader -- exhilarating
bowhunting -- obsession
reloading -- addicted
ryalred is offline  
Old December 11, 2008, 08:53 AM   #25
sundog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 22, 1999
Location: Green Country, OK
Posts: 729
Looks to me like bryce wants everyone else to do his research for him. He still has said what he intends to do with it. That might help. Beyond that it's all speculation.
__________________
safety first
sundog is offline  
Reply

Tags
ammo , flat , powerful , rifle , trajectory

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2013 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.14562 seconds with 9 queries