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Old December 6, 2008, 08:26 AM   #1
Super-Dave
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Would you trust your life to #4 buck shot?

Suppose your house was being invaded, would you trust your life to using #4 buck shot?

At what distance is #4 buck shot unlikely to penetrate deep enough?
15, yards 20 yards?
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Old December 6, 2008, 08:30 AM   #2
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If I recall correctly, No. 4 buckshot is a .24 caliber pellet and each round contains about 27 pellets and they all leave the barrel at 1325fps. Yes, I'd trust it.
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Old December 6, 2008, 09:07 AM   #3
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If it patterned well in my shotgun and that was all I had avaliable...yes. My main problem is that I prefer low recoil buck and low recoil #4 buck is hard to find locally. My HD shotgun is loaded with fiocchi low recoil 00 buck.

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Old December 6, 2008, 09:31 AM   #4
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Yes
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Old December 6, 2008, 10:19 AM   #5
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I forgot the site but, I think I Googled Defence Shotshells. So, this guy claims only 00 buck has adequate penetration that satisfy's the FBI standards. He shows various loads shot into balistic geliten. Hope this helps.
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Old December 6, 2008, 11:44 AM   #6
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Lets remeber this is a shotgun we're talking about and at HD ranges any load should pattern well enough to be effective. I know I'm going to get flamed huge for this but I have no dedicated HD shotgun. My 16 ga sxs bird gun loaded with high brass #6 is all I've got in my closet. Having seen what the full choke barrel puts out for patterns at HD ranges I am more than satisfied that it will incapacitate any intruder in a hurry.
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Old December 6, 2008, 12:18 PM   #7
KD5NRH
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Quote:
At what distance is #4 buck shot unlikely to penetrate deep enough?
15, yards 20 yards?
Depends mostly on the gun; 18" cylinder bore, down the hall should be fine. In my 28" 835 with extra-full choke, it can reach out a lot farther.
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Old December 6, 2008, 12:27 PM   #8
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Borch I have a 16ga SxS w/ 18.5" barrels as well. I tried to use it as part of a trade a few years ago...and my wife told me absolutely not! Her position is that the SxS was "idiot proof" where as my maverick 88 required more thought/training. I have mine loaded with #1 buck. A dozen .30 cal pellets will get some goblins attention
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Old December 6, 2008, 02:23 PM   #9
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I'd prefer #1 buckshot, but #4 will certainly work well for home defense. In a standard shell you get 27 pellets and you get 41 in a 3-inch shell. Your choice.
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Old December 6, 2008, 04:13 PM   #10
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That is exactly what I have in mine... #4
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Old December 6, 2008, 04:42 PM   #11
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Absolutely. My sd shotgun (A Benelli Nova with ghost ring sights and extended mag) is stuffed full with # 4 Buck.
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Old December 6, 2008, 05:26 PM   #12
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Nothing wrong with #4 buck I don't think the FBI tested at bedroom distance which in a standard house would be 20-25 feet.
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Old December 6, 2008, 06:34 PM   #13
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Sure I would and have a 4 rounder Saiga S12 mag loaded with the #4 buckshot.But I do prefer the Fiocchi low recoil 00 Buck for a good replacement.I have a mossberg 500a tactical and a Rem 870 loaded with these as a back up too.So the answer is yes to the original question and id trust it about 25 'in house'.
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Old December 6, 2008, 07:09 PM   #14
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Yes, that's what I use.
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Old December 6, 2008, 09:36 PM   #15
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Well, I always said any shotgun shell was good enough for across the room home defence. Now Gunsite is saying almost the same thing, the only difference is they say 7&1/2 is the smallest shot size to use.
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Old December 6, 2008, 10:07 PM   #16
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Quote:
Now Gunsite is saying almost the same thing,
Link?
Only an ignorant fool uses buckshot, I always say.
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Old December 6, 2008, 10:13 PM   #17
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Quote:
Only an ignorant fool uses buckshot, I always say.
Do you now.
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Old December 6, 2008, 11:23 PM   #18
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against an unarmored person at less than 30 feet you are going to mess them up with almost anything you can load. Even nickels. I use a break action single shot for HD, so I use 00 buck to be sure, but I am thinking about switching to my 11-87 which I think I could throw sporting clay shells out of it and still disable one or two people without any problem. It would probably also look better in court.

What I am going to start working on is patterning OO buck out of a rifled choke to look at riot control. Centrifuge those things out into a large patters and that would really be a crowd stopper.
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Old December 7, 2008, 12:07 AM   #19
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My Winchester 1400 has 3 rounds of 2 3/4 number 4 turkey loads. There is no where in my house that I would have shoot more than 12 feet. I have killed turkeys at 55 yards, 12 foot should be no problem.
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Old December 7, 2008, 01:57 AM   #20
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It wouldn't be my first choice, but if that is what I had, yes I would trust my life with it. Especially in the circumstances you give: inside my home.
I wouldn't trust my life to birdshot.

I am certainly no expert on the subject but unlike most who discuss this subject online, I have seen several people who have been shot with shotguns. Both bird and buckshot.
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Old December 7, 2008, 03:58 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armsmaster270
Nothing wrong with #4 buck I don't think the FBI tested at bedroom distance which in a standard house would be 20-25 feet.
I have no argument with his evaluation of #4 buck; however, IMHO his estimation of the size of a "standard house" bedroom is excessive. As a licensed architect, of armsmaster270's generation, his numbers set up a flare. Think about it for a moment, how many of you live in a "standard house" with bedrooms the size a of 2-car garage?
In reality, the typical bedroom has a maximum minor dimension of 12-ft. (This may sound bizarre, but the 12-ft rule of thumb is based on a standard roll of carpet.). For example, given a 12 x 14-ft master bedroom, the longest distance would be a diagonal of about 18.5 ft. Subtract 3.5' for the length of a short barrel shotgun w/ shooter and another foot for the BG and you get a maximum range of something like 14-feet. This is significantly less than Super-Dave's original estimate of 15 - 20 yards. At less than 5-yards, I suspect #4 buck would be devastating.
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Old December 7, 2008, 04:14 AM   #22
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OK BACK TO BASICS>

a cylinder bore shotgun on average, will spread 1 inch per yard, after about the the third yard.

A full choke shot gun, will spread about 1 inch per yard, after about the 10 yard.


We are talking about using a weapon for defense INSIDE your home, after a break in. We are not talking about assaulting a barricaded crack house, breaking motor blocks at road blocks or stopping a PRC assault on a hill in Korea. WE are talking about defending your and yours against a common burglar/crackhead/banger coming into your home with bad intents.

NOW lets look at houses, a smaller starter home is going to run about 800 square foot, a big house is about 1500 square foot on the foundation. A really nice house is going to run 2000 square foot on the foundation. Thats 40 feet by 50 feet. Now doing the math we find out the diagonal on that house is 64 feet. thats corner to corner, the longest shot possible is 20 yards. Now that makes the assumption there are no internal walls, no furniture in the way, nothing, just a big open box. Which we know is not the way homes are built, but even if this were so, that means that a average shotgun, bored cylinder, is going to deliver a 17 inch spread. (20 yards, from muzzle to far corner, is the 3 + {17 x 1}. ) thats like getting hit with 27 .22 stingers all at the same time.

Now drop that down to a more reasonable distance, like say, the top of the steps to the bottom of the steps, lets say 4 yards if you have a "grand Staircase" thats like getting 27 hits to the chest with a .22 in a 1 1/2 to 2 inch circle. Do that once or twice more, and you have what"s called hamburger.


Now not making light of all sorts of gelatin testing and what have you, I have seen the results of a 12 gauge blast at close range with just #6 six shot, and i have been shot with 6 shot at fairly long distance, and a few #6 shot penetrated across my back several inches, and that was at well over 30 yards, and maybe closer to 45. The hunting accident I helped recover a body on was a hunter shot with 6 shot at about 3 yards, as far as we could tell, and there was a hole thru the victim, the entrance appeared to be golf ball sized, and the exit was much larger. Clearly at that range penetration was complete on a human body.

Now for the do it yourself tests. get a tshirt, pack it with wet newspaper, and stack it on a log, where you have a safe back ground. Now using a tape measure, measure inside your house what might be the longest practical shot you are going to have in a home invasion. At the test sight, measure that out, then aim and shoot that wet newsprint, and see what you get.

I think you will find that you answer is self evident.


So unless you live in Buckingham Palace or are a crown prince in Saudi Arabia where you use a golf car to get around your home, a twelve gauge with 4 buck is going to be darn near perfect.


One other point rarely thought about, is miss's. If you miss with a slug or 000 buck, that miss is going to travel on a good distance, and you MIGHT at the time of need, think about that, and say to yourself, I need to wait a second to shoot or I will hit "bill and alice" next door. Shooting 4 buck, after 60 yards of so, its not going to be as lethal as a slug or 000 buck. so don't worry, shoot when the shot is there, rather than worrying.
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Old December 7, 2008, 04:31 AM   #23
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I'd prefer #1 buckshot, but #4 will certainly work well for home defense. In a standard shell you get 27 pellets and you get 41 in a 3-inch shell. Your choice.
I agree, #4 Buck is acceptable, but it is as small a shot size as I would feel confident with. I would also prefer #1 or larger. Penetration tests aside, the 41 pellet, 3 inch 12 GA is a nice amount of 24 caliber holes.

Quote:
Having seen what the full choke barrel puts out for patterns at HD ranges I am more than satisfied that it will incapacitate any intruder in a hurry.
What is your sense of satisfaction based on? I'm fairly certain it can't be #6 shots woeful lack of penetration. What evidence do you have that it will in fact 'incapacitate someone in a hurry'?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nemoaz
Only an ignorant fool uses buckshot, I always say.
LOL wut? Is that a sick joke are do you actually believe that all the smart, well informed people are using birdshot for defense?
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Old December 7, 2008, 08:54 AM   #24
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Would you trust your life to #4 buck shot?

Absolutely, right up until I could get some 00.
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Old December 7, 2008, 09:01 AM   #25
Dave McC
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Keep it on the high road, guys.

One 870 here stays loaded with 4 buck, others with 00. The one with 4 buck, not 4 birdshot, will be used in very close quarters fired more or less horizontally at ground level if at all. The others are not on ground level and will more likely be fired down at an angle.

I doubt I'd have done this if someone hadn't given me a good supply of 4 buck that patterns nicely from that barrel and a Mod tube.
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