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Old December 3, 2008, 10:42 PM   #26
bigalshootmupper
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I am pretty sure any one that says the AR will gunk up and not work (personally, I have never known someone to say this) must be using very old crappy ammo and haven't cleaned their rifle in about 1000 rounds. Just use decent ammo. And I mean decent, not the most expensive, just decent ammo you can get at Walmart. I am pretty sure ammo such as Federal or Sellier and Bellot can go 1000 rounds no problem.

Personally, I shoot 100 rounds in my AR at a time and the rifle is still pretty clean and thats with the cheapest brass ammo I can find.
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Old December 3, 2008, 11:02 PM   #27
EEL92fs
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ThreeStepsAhead

You know they are talking about a Mini14 and not an M14 right... Not the same gun...
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Old December 3, 2008, 11:12 PM   #28
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Damnit

YES.
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Old December 4, 2008, 01:25 AM   #29
TPAW
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I've put over 750 rounds of cheap wolf .223 ploymer coated rounds through my AR and not a problem. Today I reached over 1,000 rounds and still no problem. I'll clean it anyway...........
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Old December 4, 2008, 01:52 AM   #30
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My main purpose will be Appleseed, ie target shooting.
Then you better get an AR. The words "target" and "Mini-14" should never be used in the same sentence. They are notorious for being inaccurate.


Quote:
Still a dirty weapon and if you got a choice for some target competition I'd take the mini-
Target competition and Mini-14...

lol...good one.
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Old December 4, 2008, 05:46 AM   #31
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I remember vividly being afflicted with the m-16 in '71, while in basic training at Fort Polk, LA. Our instructors appologized to us for being burdened with this"weapon". In every instance where we were training in simulated combat conditions, having to low crawl through the sand and mud and then upon reaching our objective, being required to fire live rounds, this"weapon" would discharge once and jam. This wasn't just my "weapon", but every soldier involved in this training had the same experience. If it wasn't for it not being reliable, it was a fun toy. I will say it is more accurate than my mini-14, but I can count on the Mini-14 to fire everytime I pull the trigger. I first fired the M-16 when I was about 12. My father, was career military and did 3 tours in Viet Nam, the first in '64. He, having the keys to the arms room would bring home service weapons on the weekends and we would go out to the bivoac area, near PoInt Magu and waste government ammo. I thought then that the M-16 was a hoot to shoot. My father said that was true, but as far as a combat arm this was a criminal POS! My father was KIA in '67, on his third tour in Viet Nam. This "weapon" was selected by a committee that was clueless about what was really required of a combat arm. I think they should all be placed in front of a firing squad equiped with M-16's. The odds of survival would be excellent, though. As long as this piece was clean and no foreign material had invaded the action, it was a fun rifle to play with. I leaned to shoot it quite well, qualifying expert. More important than accuracy or rate of fire though is reliability. I wonder if my father would still be alive today if he were better armed.
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Old December 4, 2008, 07:03 AM   #32
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The AR15/M4/M16 of today is not the same as the M16 of '67, my friend. All those little things like the chrome lined chamber that McNamara's cronies cheaped out on have been re-added to the design. And if you really think quality ARs are unreliable, you should go through a carbine course where they fire 1000+ rounds in a day or two. An AR will get dirty but if you keep it lubed it will not stop running. If a modern AR jams and there's nothing physically wrong with the rifle, ammo, or magazines, the user is doing something wrong.
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Old December 4, 2008, 10:07 AM   #33
Bartholomew Roberts
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In my experience, the Mini-14 hasn't been as reliable, durable or as accurate as the AR15; but it costs the same as one these days. I'm sure other people have had different experiences (at least as to reliability) but durability and accuracy still seem to be an issue.

Durability may not be all that bad either; but as someone else mentioned, when a Mini-14 breaks a part it is back to Ruger and you get to hear the owner complain about it for weeks. When an AR15 breaks, usually the owner (or someone else nearby) already has a spare on hand and can be back shooting in 5 minutes; or worst case scenario, they order it online and drop it in themselves for a week's worth of downtime. So AR parts breakage may be underreported because it is so easy to fix and Ruger may be overreported because the guy has nothing else to do but talk about his broken rifle for a month and a half while he waits for it to get fixed.
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Old December 4, 2008, 01:34 PM   #34
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I'll put my Mini against an AR in a reliability test any day, providing you buy the ammo. I have neither the funds nor the desire to prove the point. My 580 series will shoot about 2" at 100 yards with good ammo. That's plenty for it's intended purpose and there are no small parts inside of it to break.
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Old December 4, 2008, 01:50 PM   #35
TheManHimself
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I'll put my Mini against an AR in a reliability test any day
Again, try out one of the more intense carbine courses. Word from the armorers at Gunsite is that they've never seen a Mini-14 make it through a class without choking. Quality ARs like Colts and LMTs do so regularly.
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Old December 4, 2008, 05:00 PM   #36
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Well gentlemen, thank you all very much for replying. You all know your stuff... I'm 16 and still learning. Handlerer, I would think you of all people should know it's called Vietnam... not Viet Nam. To the rest... I think it's pretty clear the AR wins the forum. I went to the local gunshop last night... only to hear the same stuff from an elderly gentleman there as well. So I think the AR wins... and I will surely be packing some CLP. I hope we all make it through the next 4 years lol.
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Old December 5, 2008, 12:09 AM   #37
radom
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The proper term is Viet Nam and not Vietnam. I guess you could say Indo China too but in Viet Nam its Viet Nam.
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Old December 5, 2008, 06:01 AM   #38
handlerer
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Well, Jinx, I I guess I'm old and we all know that age is a mind killer, and anyone over 40 doesn't have the sense that God gave a radish, but I know how to spell Viet Nam. I also know that wanting a weapon to be reliable and it actually being reliable are separate matters. In my experience with the M-16, I never had a failure on the firing line, and never had two shots fire in row under simulated battle conditions. There is a great deal of difference between powder residue and sand and dust. Take any M-16 oil it well, and allow sand into the action, and see what happens. In combat, when there are bullets flying all around you, the safest place you can find is on your belly in the mud, try to remember is the bolt cover on this M-16 open. If you have fired it the bolt cover is open. I know that I'm not alone in my opinions about the M-16, I know many veterans of the sandbox, that have no particular love for for the M-16. It may be much improved over the '67 version, but I was trained with the M-16A2, and it was totally unreliable. Now as far as the M-16, Ar-15, as a fun gun, hey great piece! I enjoy shooting it. But as an serious combat arm, it is flawed. I sincerely believe that the American soldier deserved better. As an assault rifle it was engineered to very close tolerances, much closer than an AK, or M-14. The idea of the bolt cover was a serious brain cramp, for an assault rifle, which needs to function in the worst conditions imaginable. If all battles were fought standing up in dry weather, it would be fine. It's fine toy for civilians to take to the range and burn a 1000 rounds with. I may be a little vituperative about this, but I happen to feel very strongly that the American troops deserve the best and they didn't get it. I have considerable resentment still over the Viet Nam war, it cost me my father. If we were not going to be allowed to win this war, we should have never gone!
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Old December 5, 2008, 06:50 AM   #39
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handlerer,

Welcome to my buddy list

I'll have more on this topic later, provided that it don't get locked first.
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Old December 5, 2008, 09:28 AM   #40
Art Eatman
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I've had four Minis, and am now on my fifth AR. They've all worked as I wanted, with no problems from either.

For hunting, I prefer the ergonomics of the Mini. It's certainly as reliably accurate as any AR for the first shot on a coyote. It's just not a benchrest paper puncher. So?

The AR can be set up as a tack-driving target rifle, and is a better "social gun". However, the Minis will certainly hold minute of torso all day long.
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Old December 5, 2008, 10:49 AM   #41
kraigwy
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I know many veterans of the sandbox, that have no particular love for for the M-16.
True there are some who want something other then the M16/M4, I read that poll. Have it somewhere.

20% of the soldiers in Iraq want something else. HOWEVER 80% say they are satisified with the M16/M4.

You cant please everyone, so I would side with the 80% of the end user.

To me it is Vietnam, or SE Asia. But like in guns we all have opinions. Based on my experience using the M16 in combat, and LE, and compitition, I have no complaints.
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Old December 5, 2008, 11:08 AM   #42
Bartholomew Roberts
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Take any M16, oil it well, and allow sand into the action and see what happens
The U.S. Army did exactly that in 2007. In fact they did it twice in 2007. The worst result for the M4 after 60,000 total rounds through 10 rifles in simulated sandstorm conditions with 600 rounds between any kind of cleaning was a 1.4% stoppage rate. The M16 performed even better.

For comparison, new modern designs (SCAR, XM8, HK416) were able to improve on that an additional 0.8-1.0% (going from memory so numbers may be off a few tenths)
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Old December 5, 2008, 11:42 AM   #43
51colt
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I have a Bushmaster AR and a 197 Ranch rifle. I like them both out of the box my AR wins hands down. But after doing a few low cost DIY mods home made buffers, smaller gas port bushings, trigger job, home made barrel sturt, and muzzle break. These take care of the Minis short comings. Reducing the trigger pull to 4lb, the sturt and muzzle stiffen the barrel and work like a heat sink, the buffer sand smaller gas port bushing along with the muzzle break eliminates most of the recoil and almost all the the muzzle lift. It almost feels like a 1022 when you are shooting it. With hand loads it shoots 1 inch groups or better at a 100yds from a bench. I shoot with benchrest guys at our range and they can't believe how good my Mini shoots.
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Old December 5, 2008, 09:47 PM   #44
TPAW
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The proper term is Viet Nam and not Vietnam. I guess you could say Indo China too but in Viet Nam its Viet Nam.
I've always know it to be Vietnam. At least that's what it said on my orders when my Uncle Sam sent me there for a free years vacation, all expenses paid.......
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Old December 5, 2008, 11:00 PM   #45
armedtotheteeth
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Yeah. Ars keep on Tickin. Give them a drop or 2 of CLp every few hundred and the will go on and on. I ran over 3000 rounds through my Ar before i got tired of the 3 inch groups and cleaned it. It never Failed for me. It just shot like ,...well, a Mini by about 2000 rounds. Its a Bushmaster by the way. A MINI>>>>... FOR TaRget shooting?? WTHELL??
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Old December 5, 2008, 11:02 PM   #46
Moerlein
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put a frickin 50 Bmg upper on the AR and you can target shoot up to 1000 yards! lets see your mini do that!
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Old December 5, 2008, 11:07 PM   #47
armedtotheteeth
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Some guy on U tube shoot 760 yards witha Ar15. Plinkin steel. I wonder how many times a Mini would hit a 10 inch plate steel at 760 yards?
this guy missed 1 time out of like 15 shots. It was getting boring watching him...ding.........ding..........ding........ding.....
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Old December 5, 2008, 11:23 PM   #48
Alleykat
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Unless you're talking about very large targets, then the Mini is worthless as a "target rifle." Of course, one would have to be suspect of somebody who proclaims that an AR is "gunked up after 100 rounds." That's total b.s. and just plain ignorance.
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Old December 6, 2008, 04:09 AM   #49
Ignition Override
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Jynx 92.
I don't have any idea how much energy is lost by the .223 from a Mini 14 at 400 yards.
But an easy to find Youtube video shows a guy with a basic Mini 30 (7.62x39) at that distance, using a scope to hit close to a target with a dusty background, fairly consistently.

You might enjoy searching for "Mini 30 440 yards" etc and watching, maybe just for a decent video.

Minis, SKS, MNs: really fun guns.
Whether "Commie-designed" or the most accurate makes no difference (to me).
I can't imagine buying the expensive guns to shoot holes in grapefruits, but especially paper (unless sighting in for hunting). Life is too short.

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Old December 6, 2008, 07:57 AM   #50
blume357
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good lord! will this never end?

I love the mini-14 and think it is a fine rifle...but to answer the original poster's question.... if it really was a question...

AR15 for sure. did you actually say 500 rounds a day?

Actually, you would probably be better off with two Ak47s for what you plan to do with it.

What is Appleseed?
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