The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old November 26, 2008, 11:57 PM   #26
BurkGlocker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 18, 2008
Location: Burkburnett, TX
Posts: 564
Glad it all worked out for the better. Situations like that can go sour rather quickly.

We have had a couple of incidents at our local Wally World, one was a stabbing, the other was shots fired, but not in the direction of people. We have a gang problem in that neighborhood, which is awful because the DPS isnt even 1/2 a mile down the freeway. I usually stop there a few times during the week to pick up odds and ends, and its always at night/early morning hours because of my work schedule. I unfortunately dont have my CCW, but do always carry a firearm in my vehicle (thank God and the State of Texas for HB 823). But when I am there at night, I still have my trusty AO knife. Better than nothing right?
__________________
Ammunition's no good if you don't have the guns and mags to load it up in...
BurkGlocker is offline  
Old November 26, 2008, 11:59 PM   #27
WVfishguy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 21, 2007
Location: Huntington, WV
Posts: 660
mstuhr wrote:
Quote:
I dont know what you did was right or wrong. I was not there.
I dont think I would have reacted in the same way from what you have told us.
Thanks
mstuhr, you are a textbook victim. Good luck to you, you will need it.

Sparks2112, thanks for the warning. I do business in the area you speak of, and I am now better informed.
WVfishguy is offline  
Old November 27, 2008, 12:12 AM   #28
Firepower!
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 3, 2008
Posts: 2,109
I am rather curious what the guy really had to ask.... May be he just wanted a beer!
Firepower! is offline  
Old November 27, 2008, 02:30 AM   #29
troy_mclure
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2008
Location: gulf of mexico
Posts: 2,716
he was gonna ask how much you had in your wallet!
__________________
There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."
troy_mclure is offline  
Old November 27, 2008, 11:30 AM   #30
mstuhr
Member
 
Join Date: February 19, 2006
Location: MO
Posts: 49
Just a thought

Hi all,
For the sake of argument lets say Spark's wife's water breaks. "Oh crap" I need to call 911 and dont have a phone. He jumps from the car and looks around a noisy parking lot hoping to find someone who can make the call for paramedics. "There's a guy" "Hey buddy, can I talk to you?" In the noisy lot he approaches the fellow looking for help after not hearing his reply from such a distance. At somewhere around 75 feet out he sees that the fellow is standing with a hand on a gun and he decides he will drive his wife to the hospital himself, hops in his car and takes off.
Well? Who knows? Does anyone know what this fellow wanted?
I dont see where they do, other than a lot of speculation.
As far as me being a textbook victim, I dont live in fear. I expect I'd be the last person in the world to shoot someone who does not need it but just might be the first if the situation calls for it.
Again, I dont know what Sparks did was right or wrong. Had it been me I would have let the fellow come forward some and things might have ended tragically for one of us. However, he may have been a person just like Sparky but in need of info, help or who knows what other ligit bussiness.
At 75 feet out I dont feel threatened by the guys actions. To let him come closer under the circumstances is not an invitation to victimize me either. Again, does anyone know what he wanted or what his intentions were? No.
Did this man threaten anyone other than approaching to 75 feet out?
Sorry guys. I still dont see the threat.
You all can climb on and I'll let you have the last word on this. The above is just my opinion and you all are sure to have yours.
Thanks
Mike

Last edited by mstuhr; November 27, 2008 at 11:34 AM. Reason: spelling
mstuhr is offline  
Old November 27, 2008, 11:52 AM   #31
Creature
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 8, 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 3,769
Quote:
For the sake of argument lets say Spark's wife's water breaks. "Oh crap" I need to call 911 and dont have a phone. He jumps from the car and looks around a noisy parking lot hoping to find someone who can make the call for paramedics. "There's a guy" "Hey buddy, can I talk to you?"
Okay...just for argument's sake.

If this guy really was having an emergency, why would he NOT say something right from the start like: "Help, my wife's water just broke and I need to use a cell phone to call 911!"?

Quote:
As far as me being a textbook victim, I dont live in fear.
Neither do we I am sure. We live our lives hoping for the best but preparing for the worst.
Creature is offline  
Old November 27, 2008, 12:15 PM   #32
ActivShootr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 15, 2007
Posts: 1,040
Quote:
Had it been me I would have let the fellow come forward some and things might have ended tragically for one of us.
So you actually WANT to get killed or kill someone?
ActivShootr is offline  
Old November 27, 2008, 12:36 PM   #33
Ginger
Member
 
Join Date: November 23, 2008
Location: Shall Issue
Posts: 98
This is ridiculous. The OP didn't even pull his gun. If I was the man approaching, and I had that kind of legitimate emergency, and I observed a man feeling threatened (he put down his bags and placed his hands as if to pull a gun) I would have put my hands out palms facing the OP, and said something to the effect of yo- hold up, my wife is having a baby can you call 911 for me? But, in reality, since I am not stupid, I wouldn't be wandering around a parking lot looking for help I would already be at a payphone, in the store, or driving to the hospital (or on a plane like Palin ).

Stop picking on the OP, he didn't do anything wrong, he did everything right, and seems to me the OP gave the other guy more credit than the OP is getting from you.
Ginger is offline  
Old November 27, 2008, 12:42 PM   #34
Ginger
Member
 
Join Date: November 23, 2008
Location: Shall Issue
Posts: 98
Oh, and BTW, I have two kids, and managed to have em both without ever calling 911.

Although I gotta say, I find it humorous to be surrounded virtually by armed men who are seriously discussing calling 911 for water breaking. lol!
Ginger is offline  
Old November 27, 2008, 01:00 PM   #35
tacticalmedic
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 18, 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 183
GOOD GOD MAN! You were in Colerain after dark??? The area alone is reason enopugh for me to shop at the WM in Lawrenceburg IN. It's an even split on the mileage from my house. Glad everything worked out for you.
tacticalmedic is offline  
Old November 27, 2008, 03:05 PM   #36
B.N.Real
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 22, 2008
Posts: 4,083
That's really heartbreaking that you have to be that aware everywhere you go now.

Glad you dealt with the sirtuation the way you did.

Wal Marts are now criminals playgrounds sadly as are most shopping malls parking lots.

I have a friend whose wife was pregnant and was at Marumsco Plaza in Woodbridge,Va. almost twenty years ago and she had to deal with a guy that tried to carjack her without a gun.

She is an astionshingly beautiful woman and she dresses that way so she was wearing high heeled shoes which she had to lean back in her car,because this guy approached her as soon as she got in her car,she leaned back in the drivers seat across the console and kicked this guy three times in the chest and face,full force with her high heels.


The third time,with her screaming,the dirtbag gave up the attempt and she drove off as fast as she could.

Hell yes,we went back there looking for the guy but how would we know what he looked like?

Totally unexpected behavior there because this attack happened in mid afternoon about 1:30 p.m.

We are all grateful that she fought with all the might she could and got this guy to stop trying to essentially abduct her.

You have to be aware always.

And people I do not know better act like they don't know me or we could have a problem.
B.N.Real is offline  
Old November 27, 2008, 06:57 PM   #37
txray22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 9, 2004
Location: Wichita Falls, Texas
Posts: 101
Thank God for ccw laws so you could protect your family.


That says a lot. Yes, thank God we have the right to protect our families and ourselves.


Phil
txray22 is offline  
Old November 27, 2008, 07:19 PM   #38
vox rationis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 15, 2007
Posts: 1,855
Quote:
I am rather curious what the guy really had to ask.... May be he just wanted a beer!
A suspect looking total stranger approaching you in a parking lot wanting to "ask you something", especially at 11:30pm, should look somewhere else if they "just want a beer".

Parking lots are common hunting grounds for criminals and since most criminals choose their victims largely based on the would be victim's response to the "interview" ("Hey man, do you have the time/can I use your cell phone/do you have change for a 20/etc/etc), it is best to not take part in any potential interview.

Therefore, being curious about what the guy wants is curiosity that is best disposed of; especially with one's pregnant wife at your side.

If our "thirsty" stranger needed assistance, well he could have just gone into the store and asked for assistance.

As far as I'm concerned, a stranger approaching you in the parking lot is a scam or even a potential mugging until proven otherwise...and I am not interested in playing along to prove that its not.
vox rationis is offline  
Old November 27, 2008, 07:21 PM   #39
luvsasmith
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 20, 2008
Posts: 358
Good show

Great job Sparks! I know Colerain well as I used to work at one of those large shopping areas in Colerain. I too am glad you were with the wife and would encourage her not to shop alone after dark in that neck of the woods. It seems to be getting worse there.

Forget all the second guessing here, your awareness, and most remarkably your wife's, was great. You reacted reasonably and intelligently, letting the would be BG know you were not going to be his next victim.
__________________
"You can't miss fast enough to win a gun fight."
luvsasmith is offline  
Old November 27, 2008, 08:34 PM   #40
Slopemeno
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 19, 2007
Posts: 2,341
..and a *much* more common hunting groung for the garden variety panhandler. "Hey man, can I get some gas money?..."
Slopemeno is offline  
Old November 27, 2008, 08:49 PM   #41
Mike in VA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 16, 1998
Location: Santa FE, NM
Posts: 2,163
Given that malls and big box stores are pretty much stupidity magnets (i.e. lotsa preoccupied people meandering about not paying attention), they also attarct a lot of predatory opportunists, and as the economy gets worse, so will the number of preditors out 'hunting' in a target rich environment. If you aren't seriously watching your "6" these days, you're pretty likely to have an unpleasant encounter, especially arond places like WalMart that cater to the less affluent/financially stressed. Fact of life.

I think the OP did a great job, no harm, no foul. From my keyboard, I have little doubt that he read the situation right, and kudos to his wife, too. Pax vobiscum.
__________________
M2
The Second Amendment IS homeland defense!
Mike in VA is offline  
Old November 28, 2008, 12:01 AM   #42
Gunsmom
Member
 
Join Date: October 1, 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 55
"Trust your gut" is one of my cardinal rules in life. The OP trusted his, and it sounds to me as if he did exactly the right thing.

A friend of mine, who doesn't carry, once walked into a convenience store for a soda. She said something just didn't feel right; "the hair on the back of my neck was standing up." She decided to forego the soda and left. When she got home, she heard that the store had been robbed about two minutes after she'd left.
Gunsmom is offline  
Old November 29, 2008, 01:24 AM   #43
Regular Joe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 6, 2008
Posts: 170
Amen to "trust your gut". There have been only a few times when this has happened to me, and I can attest that it never lies!
I think the BG is also running thru his script, and this is somehow broadcast to anyone who has his ears on; especially the intended victim. When you respond by running thru your own script, he senses that just the same. No matter if it's a BG, or dog or zombie. If you are thinking thru how to go about winning, he "feels" that. If you are thinking thoughts of fear and resignation, he feels that too. "Ain't skeered" is the correct answer. He starts to look harder at you to find out why.
Think of those times when you feel that things are amiss, but you are not armed. BLUFF!!!!!!!!!! -But bluff with your gut, and he'll back down.
Regular Joe is offline  
Old November 29, 2008, 06:25 PM   #44
Ginger
Member
 
Join Date: November 23, 2008
Location: Shall Issue
Posts: 98
I am a small caucasian female. I grew up in a black ghetto. When, as an adult, I lived in a particularly bad area (across the street from the projects near Fillmore in SF), my lack of fear was like shining armor everywhere I went.

I was never armed, but I was never scared. I made eye contact with everyone, I always said hello, and, frankly, alot of the BG's that many here would be uncomfortable around at the very least, were uncomfortable with me, because of my lack of fear, and some even figured I was crazy (although in retrospect many probably figured I was armed).

Because of the degree to which I took in and embraced my surroundings, I was able to establish a rapport with many of the icons of that ghetto, such that to this day I can show up, drop a name, and as long as there is no cross-fire, be perfectly safe. There were even times late at night I would hear one BG say to another, "don't mess with her, she cool." But nothing was better than the very oldest saying one to another, "...ooo, she walkin' *tall*."

Just food for thought.

Afterthought: What am I doing here? I really was so much safer back there. But as too many women will find out, the real threat is from those we let in and consider close friends and family. I'll take all the big scary bad guys the ghetto ever spit at me over the one guy I let myself consider "family" for one second too long.
Ginger is offline  
Old November 29, 2008, 08:13 PM   #45
Mannlicher
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 8, 2001
Location: North Central Florida
Posts: 2,968
good on ya Sparks. When you cease to look like a victim, the shark cruises away.
__________________
Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.".........Ronald Reagan
Mannlicher is offline  
Old November 29, 2008, 09:46 PM   #46
fawcettlee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 11, 2005
Posts: 114
Who knows?

I have been approached in parking lots before in my city by guys saying exactly the same thing.
They either wanted to sell me a speaker or gave me a sob story about needing gas money. I never gave them any business or money and I didn't feel threatened.
I don't know how the (possible)BG was approaching and no weapon was pulled so who knows?

Last edited by fawcettlee; November 29, 2008 at 10:52 PM.
fawcettlee is offline  
Old November 30, 2008, 05:22 AM   #47
rogertc1
Junior member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2004
Location: Maquoketa
Posts: 1,335
Never had an issue in my town or Walmart

Last edited by rogertc1; November 30, 2008 at 05:45 AM.
rogertc1 is offline  
Old November 30, 2008, 06:15 AM   #48
razorburn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 8, 2006
Posts: 260
Quote:
I have been approached in parking lots before in my city by guys saying exactly the same thing.
They either wanted to sell me a speaker or gave me a sob story about needing gas money. I never gave them any business or money and I didn't feel threatened.
I don't know how the (possible)BG was approaching and no weapon was pulled so who knows?
Yes, I have had exactly the same experience. The guy asked if he could talk and never approached within 75 feet? I've been in his position before asking for directions. I don't especially see the threat, but hey, nobody got hurt or anything, so it came out fine. If people were in the parking lot they might've thought you were a jerk, but you're not there to make friends. I don't see what you'd call the cops for though. To report that a large guy asked if he could talk to you?
razorburn is offline  
Old November 30, 2008, 09:47 AM   #49
troy_mclure
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2008
Location: gulf of mexico
Posts: 2,716
as stated a few times

by refusing to stop he proves his intentions are less than honorable.
__________________
There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."
troy_mclure is offline  
Old November 30, 2008, 11:19 AM   #50
longcall911
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 29, 2008
Location: Bethlehem, PA
Posts: 125
Sparks, putting him at 12 o'clock, setting the packages down, and saying "no you can't" in my view showed strength and that you were preparing to do battle.

In all likelihood, that's what changed the BG's mind.

/*tom*/
__________________
You say you support our troops. How about actually doing something? Your blood or platelets can save a life Armed Services Blood Program.
longcall911 is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.16681 seconds with 7 queries