The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Dave McCracken Memorial Shotgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 18, 2008, 08:48 PM   #1
jrizzo86
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2008
Posts: 5
Remington Sportsman or Model 11 ???????

I bought a remington sportsman 16ga. Its serial # is 1523568 which i was told was a model 11. But has Carvings of ducks on it. The barrel has a poly choke on it. It has brownings patent # on it It has some small symbols stamped on it. There were FULL, WG, Anchor symbol, and REP. What do all the stamps on the barrel mean. I am so confused about this gun. It is in mint shape. Holds three rounds in it and shoots a deer slug mint as well as bird loads. I want to know about the guns history it looks so amazing and i know nothing about it. Appreciate the Help..
jrizzo86 is offline  
Old November 19, 2008, 04:00 PM   #2
Tom Doniphon
Member
 
Join Date: February 4, 2008
Posts: 24
I think the serial number puts it around 1938 mfg.

The WG mark on the barrel is a date code which translates to August 1938.

The anchor mark and REP are Remington inspection/assembly and proof marks.
Tom Doniphon is offline  
Old November 19, 2008, 09:40 PM   #3
jrizzo86
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2008
Posts: 5
Need Help

Is it a Remington Sportsman or Remington Model 11. And does anybody know anything about poly chokes or where i can find information on them.
jrizzo86 is offline  
Old November 20, 2008, 12:10 AM   #4
zinj
Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: Chicagoish - Love the museums, hate the rest
Posts: 66
The original Remington Sportsman is just a Model 11 with a fixed three round magazine (the M11 has a five round tube, but can be plugged to three for hunting regulation compliance). The M11 itself is a licensed Browning Auto-5 clone. The Auto-5 was the first semi-automatic shotgun.

Polychoke is still around. They have operation instructions on their site for their chokes.
zinj is offline  
Old November 20, 2008, 08:04 AM   #5
Jeff Mulliken
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 13, 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 250
This gun was made in early 1939.

Based on the serial number it is not a Sportsman model.

The Sportsman was marked with the letter S in front of the serial number and all the serial numbers were between 200,000 and 249,172.

The data used was authored by Jim Tipton and published in the Remington Society of America Journal.

Jeff
Jeff Mulliken is offline  
Old November 21, 2008, 02:59 PM   #6
Tom Doniphon
Member
 
Join Date: February 4, 2008
Posts: 24
Hi Jeff.

Is the S prefix unique to the 16 gage guns? Because there are plenty of "U.S." marked 12 gage Sportsman shotguns made during WW2 that do not have an S prefix to the serial number.
Tom Doniphon is offline  
Old November 21, 2008, 03:05 PM   #7
jrizzo86
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2008
Posts: 5
It only has a 3 round tube but you told me the m11 has 5. But my gun has a M11 Serial #. So i am still confused or maybe its just the grade of the gun that's sportsman. There is tons of different grades of the m11 how do i find out what grade mine is.

Last edited by jrizzo86; November 21, 2008 at 06:17 PM.
jrizzo86 is offline  
Old November 21, 2008, 09:01 PM   #8
Jeff Mulliken
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 13, 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 250
Jim Tipton's data tables indicated that the S was used on all gauges.

I am no expert on arcane details on the Remington guns which is why I qualified the source of the data. (I'm more in my own zone on the Atuto-5) However in my experience Jim knows more about these guns than anybody I have ever talked to.

All bets are off on guns made specifically for the US Govt. I would find it curious though if the Govt. bought the 3 shot version for the military....it may be true but is counter intuitive.

One more thought.....I would never be surprised to find the more common three shot tube and forend on an early gun. As old parts broke they could easily have been replaced with the more common Sportsman parts.

Jeff
Jeff Mulliken is offline  
Old November 22, 2008, 02:05 PM   #9
Tom Doniphon
Member
 
Join Date: February 4, 2008
Posts: 24
I don't know for certain about the 16 gage guns, but I can tell you that the 12 gage Model 11 shotguns made for the Military during WW2 do not have S prefix serial numbers. And, the Gov't procured both Model 11 and Sportsman models. The Model 11s are marked as such on the bolt, and the Sportsman models are marked "The Sportsman" on the bolt.
Tom Doniphon is offline  
Old November 22, 2008, 10:19 PM   #10
jrizzo86
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2008
Posts: 5
So it marked Sportsman on the bolt. So u saying its a M11 Sportsman. There is no S prefix in the Serial #.
jrizzo86 is offline  
Old November 23, 2008, 01:13 AM   #11
zinj
Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: Chicagoish - Love the museums, hate the rest
Posts: 66
Have you checked to see if there is no plug in the mag?
zinj is offline  
Old November 23, 2008, 05:57 PM   #12
jrizzo86
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2008
Posts: 5
Yea there is no plug in it..
jrizzo86 is offline  
Old March 25, 2009, 05:11 PM   #13
handloader357
Junior Member
 
Join Date: March 25, 2009
Posts: 2
I may be a little late on this reply, but I just picked up a 20 gauge Sportsman version of the Remington model 11 and may have some info to help. I too had questions about the serial number. 1st off, my serial didn't fall into the ranges kept on file at Remington. My Sportsman 11 fell in line with the serials on the regular Model 11 in 12 gauge, not the Sportsman in 20. Secondly, the date code on my barrel translated to December of 1948. As far as the Remington website is concerned, the Sportsman and Model 11 were discontinued at the end of 47 and replaced with the 11-48 and Sportsman 48. Also, my Sportsman did not have an S in front of the serial.

So I called Remington and spoke with a very knowledgeable lady in their historical records department. She informed me that the 'S' in the serial number was not always stamped in the same place on the receiver, although it was usually in front of the serial. As it turns out the S was kind of an afterthought and was lightly stamped into the receiver after they had already been serialized. Also, because the S was so lightly done, if the gun had been polished and reblued the S may not even be there any more.

As far as my date and serial number discrepancies, my Sportsman was probably one of the last to leave the factory due to the late serial number and date code on the barrel. She went on to say that during and for a few years after WWII some records were not kept well or were outright lost, so the documentation we have today is in some cases a best guess.

She told me basically that if it says Sportsman on the bolt (Instead of Model 11) and only holds 2 in the tube without an actual plug its a true Sportsman, despite what serial number records have to say about it. She also mentioned that the date codes on the barrel often do more 'harm' than good in identifying the gun. I'm not exactly sure what she meant by that but I would assume they're a decent guide but not exact.

My particular Sportsman is marked Skeet on barrel and is 26" long. I was itching to use it, so I took it to a trap range that is on my way home from work. The shotgun functioned perfectly and I shot a 20. Not too bad for a 60 year old skeet gun! Take it out and shoot it, clean it and love it! Just make sure your recoil rings and spring are set up for the loads your using and it'll probably last another 60 years.

Just my 2 cents.. Hope it helps someone someday...
handloader357 is offline  
Old February 10, 2010, 09:28 PM   #14
jrmy0641
Junior Member
 
Join Date: February 10, 2010
Posts: 1
"Based on the serial number it is not a Sportsman model." Wrong. I got the info on my Sportsman directly from a Remington rep.. It's serial # is in the 400,000s with a manufacture date sometime in 1939; and is a Sportsman.

I bumped this thread because I came across it while Googling. The information is still out there for anyone looking for it and I thought it best to set the record straight.
jrmy0641 is offline  
Old February 11, 2010, 12:40 AM   #15
DG45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 5, 2009
Posts: 904
I owned a 12 gauge Remington Sportsman made in the 1930s for about 35 years. Wonderful gun. A couple of years ago I gave it to my 21 year old son who was in the service. Inside 6 months he'd sold it to a pawnshop for $50. Needed the money he said. Sheesh!!

I missed the gun and bought a 12 gauge Remington Model 11 made in 1938 for $200. Another wonderful gun.

The most important difference is that the Sportsman held only two rounds in the magazine; the Model 11 holds 4, but in my state if you use a gun for waterfowl you have to plug it so the magazine holds only two rounds.

There were a number of small cosmetic differences. The Sportsman had a "beavertail" forearm. Some liked it, some didn't. The screw cap on the Sportsman magazine was a little different too, and to me was cheaper looking than the end cap on my Model 11.

The words "The Sportsman" were rollmarked on the breechbolt of the Sportsman. The term "Model 11" is rollmarked on the breechbolt of the Model 11.

Both guns were rollmarked with hunting scenes, but I can't remember now exactly what the scenes that were rollmarked on the Sportsman looked like. It seems like there was a pheasant on the ground or something like that. Can somebody post a picture of the rollmarks on a Sportsman? I'm thinking it was very close but not exactly the same as on the scenes on the Model 11, but I could be wrong. (My Model 11 has a flying pheasant scene on one side of the receiver and a flying duck scene of the other side of the receiver.)

Hope this helps
DG45 is offline  
Old March 12, 2010, 10:37 AM   #16
CT7120
Junior Member
 
Join Date: March 12, 2010
Posts: 2
After reading these posts, I checked mine. It's marked "The Sportman" on the breechbolt and in the 400,000's serial number range. It has a flying duck on the left side of the receiver and a pheasant (on the ground) on the right. I was told by a friend who worked at a large gun store in NY during college that it was made between the early 30's and late 40's. He also said that it was worth less than $200 because so many were made in this era. Again, this is a friend's info.
CT7120 is offline  
Old March 12, 2010, 06:14 PM   #17
dropthehammer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 26, 2009
Location: Suburb of Cleveland Ohio
Posts: 108
I really don't think it being a Sportsman or a Model 11 changes the value a whole bunch. The polychoke hurts the value more than the model. I think polychokes are hideous, but not a bad fit on a hunting gun if you can get past the appearence. Polychokes pattern pretty well, and if yours shoots slugs well, thats just another bonus. That gun was built when they still built guns. Take care of it and it will outlast you.
dropthehammer is offline  
Old June 9, 2010, 08:08 PM   #18
andy41372
Junior Member
 
Join Date: June 9, 2010
Posts: 1
I recently aquired a "sportsman 12 ga" and there are a few parts I am going to need but I can not find a diagram or a parts list if anyone can help I would appreciate it"
andy41372 is offline  
Old June 9, 2010, 09:38 PM   #19
zippy13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 23, 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 6,416
Greetings andy41372 and welcome aboard,

Generally a Browning Auto-5 parts diagram will suffice in the absence of one from Remington. If you have a Model 11 that's new to you, getting an owners manual is advised. Go to Remington's News & Resources page. At the bottom there is a link to Request An Obsolete Owner's Manual. Fill in the required info and you're in business.
zippy13 is offline  
Old June 10, 2010, 12:31 AM   #20
DG45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 5, 2009
Posts: 904
Check Bob's Gun Shop at this hyperlink. They also have stocks and forearms.

http://www.gun-parts.com/remingtonshotgun/

If all else fails, check e-bay. From time to time, I've seen gun manuals listed for sale on ebay for just about everything that Remingtons ever made. But on hard to find stuff, timings everything on ebay. They may have one one day, but then not get another one for a long time.
DG45 is offline  
Old July 23, 2010, 07:36 PM   #21
Phil20
Junior Member
 
Join Date: July 23, 2010
Posts: 1
Sportsman S

I don't mean to throw another question into the mix, but I am relatively inexperienced with fire arms and my late grandfather left me a Remington "The Sportsman" with the # S2743 across the side. I have been unsuccessful finding any information on it via the web, until this post. Is there somewhere specific that I should be looking for another serial #?

The barrel is engraved with the letters PZ and in addition to the REP and anchor symbol there is a heart engraved on the belly of the barrel, can anyone tell me anything about this gun?
Phil20 is offline  
Old July 24, 2010, 01:19 AM   #22
DG45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 5, 2009
Posts: 904
Welcome to TFL, Phil20.

You didn't say if your gun was a 12 gauge, 16, or 20 but 16's seem to cause some ID problems. This hyperlink is from the Remington website.

http://www.remington.com/products/ar...sportsman.aspx

Having once owned a 12 gauge Sportsman and now being the owner of a 12 gauge Model 11, I can tell you that both are good, solid, reliable guns. They're great hunters, but neither one is a gun that you'd want to shoot a whole lot at a time because the recoil from the 12 gauge models of either one, particularly with buckshot loads and slugs, but even with moderate shot loads will give you quite a jolt - and a nasty bruise too if you stay at it too long. Anyway, as I recall, the following are the most easily discernable differences between a 12 gauge Remington Model 11 and a 12 gauge Sportsman variation of that gun:

1. An unplugged Model 11 will hold four 2 3/4 inch shells in its magazine and one in its chamber, vs. The Sportsman, which will hold two in the magazine and one in the chamber.

2. The model identification rollmarks on the breechbolt are different. Model 11's say MODEL 11. The Sportsman says THE SPORTSMAN.

3. I'm not absolutely certain of this but I think this is right - I believe the "pheasant scene" rollmarks are different. I believe that on the Model 11 there are pheasants flying, while on The Sportsman there's a pheasant on the ground.

4.The forearms of the guns are different. The Sportsman forearm is a beavertail type forearm, flatter and wider than a Remington Model 11.

5. The magazine end caps are different.

6. I can't remember now but the Sportsman may have been a tad lighter than the Model 11 too; Sorry, can't remember for sure.

Last edited by DG45; July 24, 2010 at 01:24 AM.
DG45 is offline  
Old August 1, 2010, 01:53 PM   #23
wmc7
Junior Member
 
Join Date: August 1, 2010
Posts: 1
Remington Sportsman

I have a 12ga Remington marked Sportsman on the receiver, serial 509XXX, barrel code DC. It does not have an "S" stamp, nor does the bolt have any stamp on it. It has the sitting pheasant on the right side and the flying duck on the left. It hold two rounds in the tube.
wmc7 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.11584 seconds with 7 queries