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Old November 17, 2008, 01:51 PM   #1
golfnutrlv
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Concealed Carry Help

I know this topic has probably been discussed before, but here goes.

Does anyone have any good resources on the Use of Force Doctrine in general, specifically in Washington State?

It seems difficult to find good information on when and how to use force, and in what degree. I feel that I am in danger of giving concealed carry a bad rap if I am involved in a shooting that is not justifiable. In addition of course, to the consequences to me personally.

Also, does anyone have any resources on what steps to take after a shooting, should it ever occur. I know to call the police/ambulance/my lawyer of course, but any other suggestions?

Thanks all for the help.
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Old November 17, 2008, 02:02 PM   #2
OnTheFly
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I used http://www.handgunlaw.us/ to find http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.a...A.16&full=true.

Hope that helps.

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Old November 17, 2008, 02:11 PM   #3
Brian Pfleuger
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You might try a search on your states webpage for "physical force penal code." That should come up with a copy of the law in your state. (usually)
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Old November 17, 2008, 02:13 PM   #4
OnTheFly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peetzakilla
You might try a search on your states webpage for "physical force penal code." That should come up with a copy of the law in your state. (usually)
Or you could just click on the second link I provided to go to wa.gov and see what the law says.

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Old November 17, 2008, 02:15 PM   #5
Bauer
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Use of Force.
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Old November 17, 2008, 04:20 PM   #6
Keltyke
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Quote:
Does anyone have any good resources on the Use of Force Doctrine in general, specifically in Washington State?
Use of Force Doctrine? Never heard of it. There are general Federal handgun laws and state handgun laws. There are STATE-SPECIFIC concealed laws of when you can shoot. I suggest you check those laws for YOUR state.
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Old November 17, 2008, 07:06 PM   #7
pax
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Randell,

Pick up a copy of Dave Workman's Washington Gun Rights and Responsibilities booklet. Costs around $10 and you can get it from SAF at http://www.saf.org/default.asp?p=boo...itle=&bauthor=

Check out www.useofforce.us for the general overview of lethal force doctrine under common law throughout the United States, or see my website at www.corneredcat.com/Legal/AOJ.aspx. For similar information of this general nature, see Massad Ayoob's book In the Gravest Extreme, or sign up for an LFI-1 class taught by Ayoob.

Sign up for a $35 "Handgun Safety Seminar" from the Firearms Academy of Seattle, which covers the laws regarding gun ownership and lethal force in Washington and Oregon in some detail, and provides you the opportunity to ask specific questions. FAS is located near Chehalis, WA.

Join the Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network and take advantage of the DVDs that come with your membership.

The link to specific Washington law provided above is good; as you're perusing that site remember that the criminal codes regarding Murder/Manslaughter/Justifiable Homicide are not found near the firearms statutes or the statutes related to concealed carry -- be as thorough as you can.

More legal resources are listed on my site at http://www.corneredcat.com/Legal/resources.aspx; many of them are specific to Washington state.

Hope some of the above helps.

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Last edited by pax; November 17, 2008 at 07:13 PM.
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Old November 17, 2008, 07:17 PM   #8
golfnutrlv
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Thank you all for the info!
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Old November 17, 2008, 08:36 PM   #9
oldandslow
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golfnut, 11/18/08

I'd like to second the recommendation for the Firearms Academy of Seattle. I've taken a number of classes from them over the years and they are excellent. The classes cover everything from the most basic information to advanced techniques. They also have all-women's classes which are usually pretty popular. One of the owners, Marty Hayes, besides being a firearms trainer also has his law degree so he is excellent at both the practical and legal aspects of self defense. Take a look at their website for more info. Good luck.

best wishes- oldandslow
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Old November 18, 2008, 06:48 AM   #10
Shawn Dodson
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Suggest you see:

Communicating Effectively with Police

Five Rules for CONCEALED Carry

I CCW'd for 18 years as a private citizen in WA. I was also an LEO (Bremerton PD) for 7 years.

Cheers!
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Old November 18, 2008, 11:10 AM   #11
David Armstrong
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My suggestion is fairly simple, at least as it relates to deadly force. Forget about trying to figure out when you can shoot, decide when you must shoot. For example, "I will shoot somebody to prevent loss of life or great harm to me or someone I care a whole lot about." That is a simple, easy to remember, and for the most part legally defensible action anywhere. For lower levels of force, the reasonableness doctrine is a good one. "Does what I am doing seem reasonable to me, and will others think it is reasonable?" That is a good, bare-bones basic use of force doctrine.
As others have said, you can get a far more detailed and precise look at the issue by taking a course at FAS, or LFI, or a few other places, and some literature will help.
For after the shooting, equally simple. "Officer, I know you have a job to do, but given the seriousness of this situation, I want to talk with my attorney before answering any questions." Then wait for the attorney.
Makes for a simple and easy to remember doctrine: Is it reasonable? Is it necessary? I want my lawyer.
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