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Old November 16, 2008, 08:49 AM   #1
880Man
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Is airsofting beneficial?

Do you guys think airsoft matches are beneficial? Also... I just bought two very cheap airsoft pistols to try out the sport and was wondering... What do you think a good scenario would be if me and my buddy used only these and we played inside a house?
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Old November 16, 2008, 09:25 AM   #2
ZeSpectre
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So far the most benefit I've gotten from using airsoft guns was teaching some friends about the realities of a handgun and self defense (using eye and ear safety equipment of course).

We played the "criminal in the house" scenario where they would go lay on their bed and I would make a noise somewhere in the house and they would come investigate.

To break it up I had a few signs like "I'm the cat" or such (you know...don't shoot kind of things)

The first few scenarios were run "cold" without any tutoring from me and when they found me and I turned on them (barehanded or with a fake knife or with another airsoft gun) it was astounding how many times they would try to talk to me, or "warn" me....so I'd shoot 'em.

It's just stunning how long it takes some people to realize that criminal in your house with a gun=shoot now!

So airsoft was pretty good training for that.
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Old November 16, 2008, 09:43 AM   #3
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Im not so sure it would be the best "training" tool per say, but if its one thing airsofting has given me is much more respect for an armed encounter and how hard it can be to come out of a sticky situation alive... Especially when playing a bit of CQB in my friends old barn...
But for me its more a hobby, and I do it for fun rather than train... But it does give you a good platform to practice techniques learned elsewhere, and if youre clever enough, maybe come up with a few of your own...

few useful links:
www.airsoftretreat.com
www.arniesairsoft.co.uk
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Old November 16, 2008, 09:50 AM   #4
880Man
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So criminal in the house would be a good game to play?
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Old November 16, 2008, 10:27 AM   #5
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I applaud you on your decision to train realistically. Yes, I use Airsoft guns for training and they don't have to be high end. All marksmanship skill are constant and all will improve ability. Tactical drills in today's world are necessary. My gosh, if you have a break in you will be fighting for your life and the life of your family. You practice sports, what makes them more important than your families life?
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Old November 16, 2008, 10:29 AM   #6
Glenn E. Meyer
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Just got done with an excellent FOF airsoft class with www.krtraining.com. Lots of in your face close scenarios.

While playing with friends are fun, good FOF needs tight scrips, supervision and debriefs.
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Old November 16, 2008, 12:50 PM   #7
Frank Ettin
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There are several of us here who teach NRA Basic Handgun together. We have the students shoot high grade, green gas airsoft replicas of standard semi-autos in the class room before taking them onto the range for live fire. The airsoft work seems to help them with trigger control and sight alignment, so once they get to the real thing, even folks who had never so much as touched a gun before are doing very well.
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Old November 16, 2008, 07:17 PM   #8
VHinch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 880Man
So criminal in the house would be a good game to play?
It's an excellent game to play to teach people just how dangerous house clearing really is. Message boards are full of people who like to say they know their house, if someone is there I'm going after them, etc., but have no idea how bad an idea it is to try and clear a building when you don't know what you're doing, especially if you're by yourself. Running the criminal in the house drill with airsoft and getting "killed" about 98% of the time is an excellent teaching tool.
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Old November 17, 2008, 10:37 AM   #9
Shawn Dodson
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Quote:
So criminal in the house would be a good game to play?
I'm leery of regarding Airsoft training as "a game," because if you ever find yourself in a situation in which you need to use your gun for defense your mind will have been conditioned that the situation you face is "a game."

The idea is not to game it, but instead to obtain "been there, done that" experiential training, using high stress, realistic scenarios that force you out of your comfort zone, make decisions under geat psychological stress, react to another person who's reacting to you, use verbal commands, tactical consideratons in a dynamic situation, desensitize your sympathetic nervous system (fear response), blah, blah, blah, yadda, yadda, yadda...

Glenn is correct. A tight script of each scenario, knowledgeable supervision, and debrief is necessary to make Airsoft a valuable training tool.
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Old November 17, 2008, 11:07 AM   #10
michael-J
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My wife and I use them to set up differnet scnenarios within the magic zero to 21 feet range. EX.. Grabing from behind, pushing the BG away, falling down and drawing etc.

If you decide to use them our way you might as well get some close combat martial arts and edged weapon training.
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Old November 18, 2008, 08:07 AM   #11
880Man
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So should it be one hit kills?
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Old November 18, 2008, 08:59 AM   #12
Shawn Dodson
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One hit kills? No.

Scenarios should vary. The bad guy role player is instructed to react after so many shots fired or after so many hits. The purpose is not to test marksmanship against a live target, but to test tactical decision-making under stress, i.e., does the good guy react appropriately to the situation, does the good guy sense threat cues, does the good guy underreact or overreact?

There should also be scenarios where, if the good guy achieves a position of advantage, no shots are necessary - just verbal commands at gunpoint.

And there should be ambiguous scenarios - in which the bad guy doesn't react in a manner that the good guy expects.

Some examples of scenarios:
Solicitor at door (casing for burglary turns violent)
Meter reader (casing for burglary turns violent)
Home alone ill (burglary in progress turns violent)
Return home, interrupt burglary in progress
Intentionally targeted
Someone with a grudge
Mistakenly targeted (mistaken ID)
Car prowl outside house
Suspicious activity outside house
Vandalism outside house
Jilted lover/admirer/stalker
Home Invasion
Burglary
Psychotic/irrational person
Person on drugs/drunk
Police hot pursuit bad guy enters home
Unrelated criminal activity spills onto property/into house

Activities the Good Guy could be doing when the Bad Guy appears:
Laundry
Washing dishes
House cleaning/straightening up
Watching TV
Using PC
Studying
Bathing/personal hygiene
Getting ready for work
Cooking
Sleeping
Talking on telephone
Washing car
Mowing lawn/gardening

Just some outside the box stuff to think about.

Last edited by Shawn Dodson; November 18, 2008 at 09:59 AM.
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Old November 18, 2008, 01:47 PM   #13
ZeSpectre
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Don't forget the "zombie crackhead" scenario.

No I'm not kidding, I'm talking about the scenario representing a druggie so tweaked that he doesn't even notice being shot and just keeps coming. This is the scenario that teaches you to HAVE AN EXIT PLAN!
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Old November 19, 2008, 09:29 AM   #14
880Man
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So one hit kill is bad why? One hit to the central area torso of course... or this:

Head 1 hit kill

Torso center 2 hits kill

Arm or hand that arm disabled

leg or feet that leg disabled

And we must react as if there was pain from the wound (unless if were playing crack-head zombie or something like that.).
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Old November 19, 2008, 09:48 AM   #15
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One problem with airsoft is the lack of pain involved. The knowledge that you wont actually get killed cannot be avoided, but there is little else to dissuade you from taking chances you might otherwise not. I believe this is where simunitions have an edge?

If you use airsoft for FOF training, I suggest using upgraded gas powered pistols with little in the way of protective clothing (just make sure to protect that pretty face of yours )
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Old November 19, 2008, 09:55 AM   #16
scottycoyote
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youre leaving out all the fun airsoft games.......like the one where whoever gets hit first has to take a tequila shot


ok ok just kidding lol
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Old November 19, 2008, 10:03 AM   #17
KLRANGL
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change tequila to whiskey/bourbon and i'll play with you guys anyday
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Old November 19, 2008, 11:05 AM   #18
Glenn E. Meyer
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There is a touch of pain if you just wear a t-shirt

I got hosed with a full auto one in a simulated bank robbery - a nice lesson about being a hero and it was ouch!
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Old November 19, 2008, 11:20 AM   #19
KLRANGL
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Quote:
There is a touch of pain if you just wear a t-shirt
Oh yeah, there is some pain when you play without protective clothing. Ive had plenty of bloody welts on arm skin from close encounters with a full auto
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Old November 19, 2008, 11:34 AM   #20
sigman232
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I play paintball in the woods with a sponsored team on their off weeks. I suppose its good practice for woods tactics but I dont want to repaint my house, so airsoft might be a good indoor option.
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Old November 20, 2008, 05:37 PM   #21
Shawn Dodson
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Quote:
So one hit kill is bad why?
It conditions you to expect that the bad guy will stop after firing a single shot. In an actual shooting you won't see your bullets impacting the target and, unless you disrupt the central nervous system, there's no compelling physiological reason for the bad guy to stop until he bleeds out - which takes time.
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