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Old November 14, 2008, 12:31 AM   #1
cchardwick
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Don't buy .223 ammo from Aim Surplus!

I ordered two cases of 500 rounds of .223 from Aim Surplus. Shipped fast and came in real nice ammo cans, but after reading another post where some guy didn't get all his ammo I decided to count them. The count came it at 499 out of 500 on the first case, not bad, but the ammo was DEFECTIVE. About 20% had dents so bad that I wouldn't even attempt to load them in my AR-15. Some had the bullets seated at an angle, some had bullets that would slide in and out of the brass. Besides this 20% of major defects I would say that another 20% had a very slight lean to the bullet, not enough to worry about not shooting but would throw off my accuracy. I wrote the company and complained, we'll see what they say. Tomorrow I'll look at the second case of 500 but I'm assuming it will be the same. It almost seems like this ammo is the stuff that was rejected off of the assembly line. I'm thinking If I checked it with a micrometer it may all be bad. Check out these photos, this is shocking:






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Old November 14, 2008, 12:34 AM   #2
hoytinak
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Dang that's not good. I'm ordering a case of .223 from Georgia-Arms tomorrow, I've been impressed with their pistol ammo so I'm going to give this a try.
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Old November 14, 2008, 01:00 AM   #3
cchardwick
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The question is:

1) How do I dispose of the damaged ammo?

2) Based on what I've seen with the quality, do you think it's safe to shoot the rest of the ammo?



If this is NATO surplus, no wonder the AR-15 gets a bad rap. It's not the rifle, it's the ammo.

I'm thinking I would have been better off buying some reloading equipment, brass, bullets, primers, and powder. I feel like I just got ripped off big time.
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Old November 14, 2008, 01:05 AM   #4
hogdogs
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Maybe sell it cheap to someone with a bolt action??? That is some junk lookin' crap! I ain't got good eyes nor am I an ammo pro and I see bullet seating variance all over them shiny turds...
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Old November 14, 2008, 01:14 AM   #5
cchardwick
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I'm tempted to try to send the whole two cases back. :barf:

I did notice that they took this product off of their website.

I'm thinking they loaded up those rounds with a hammer and pliers.

Anyone know if bad ammo like this could damage a silencer? Boy that would be an expensive blunder.

Last edited by cchardwick; November 14, 2008 at 01:36 AM.
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Old November 14, 2008, 03:09 AM   #6
ISC
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shoot it. It's not the highest quality control, but the dents don't look that bad and I don't see the bullets falling out.
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Old November 14, 2008, 03:10 AM   #7
Powderman
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Minor dents will not cause a problem. What IS a problem is a loose bullet that can slide back into the case upon loading.

I hope those weren't sold as new ammo--because they look like reloads where someone went nuts with the case lube.

You could possibly get a Lee Factory Crimp die, and attempt to re-crimp the rounds--into the cannelure.

Or, you could contact AIM Surplus and explain your displeasure.
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Old November 14, 2008, 03:25 AM   #8
B. Lahey
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Sometimes ammo that has been linked and delinked will have dents like that. That ammo looks worse than usual for that type of damage, though.
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Old November 14, 2008, 07:32 AM   #9
JustDreadful
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The dents wouldn't worry me, I'd shoot it up; the loose boolits would worry me. Either way, though, if they weren't up front about the condition of the ammo, I'd be steamed.
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Old November 14, 2008, 08:05 AM   #10
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That's just pitiful quality control...thanks for reminding me why I've been reloading for 30 years. Personally, I would send that box-o-junk back. A few dented rounds? Stuff happens, no big deal...but that many rounds? Looks like someone put all the rejects into one container to me.

I don't blame you bro', I would be screaming at someone on the phone. Especially about the loose and angle seated bullets!
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Old November 14, 2008, 08:30 AM   #11
RedneckFur
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I buy all my wolf ammo from aim surplus, and have never had a problem. I've never bought loose ammo from them though.
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Old November 14, 2008, 10:10 AM   #12
armoredman
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Ouch, that's bad. Good luck with AIM!
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Old November 14, 2008, 11:06 AM   #13
A/C Guy
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You are overreacting

Dents in the cases will not effect the ammo.

Crooked bullets will not be an issue, unless your gun shoots 1/2 moa you won't notice any difference on your targets.

As long as the bullets are crimped securely and the ammo loads in the chamber, just shoot and enjoy.
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Old November 14, 2008, 11:26 AM   #14
SilentHitz
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Quote:
You are overreacting
Would you depend on that crap for self defense? Not me. Unless he's going to use all 1k to plink with, I would send it back. With ammo prices as high as they are, why would you accept merchandise like that?
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Old November 14, 2008, 11:37 AM   #15
cchardwick
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Well I called Aim Surplus and they were very nice about it. They said I could pull all my rounds that were bad and send them back for a pro-rated refund. Looks like I'll be checking each and every round by hand which is a pain in the rear end. This ammo was sold as new ammo manufactured by department of defence contractors. The rounds that worry me the most are the ones that have a dent from seating the bullet with a curl around the lip of the brass, they probably won't chamber correctly. I'm definitely going to get into reloading after this. I can't believe how bad new ammo can be.

Any suggestions on how to check this ammo besides visually looking for dents, loose bullets, and bullets seated at an angle? I'm thinking I should shake every one and make sure there's at least powder in there so I don't have a squib. Maybe I should get a micrometer and check the overall length?

Some of those dents took quite a bit of pressure to make them, I'm surprised that none of the primers got hit that hard which would have made some of the rounds explode.

Cheat me once, shame on you. Cheat me twice, shame on me. This is the last time I'm ever going to buy any 'factory' ammo. From now on I'm going to buy all my brass and reload everything.

Last edited by cchardwick; November 14, 2008 at 12:43 PM.
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Old November 14, 2008, 03:12 PM   #16
Rant Casey
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Just ordered 2k of wolf from them and a couple battle packs of prvi, never had any problems with them. Which ammo was this?
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Old November 14, 2008, 03:36 PM   #17
cchardwick
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It was the 500 rounds of bulk ammo that came in a green ammo can. They said it was made by Department of Defense contractors, new ammo. I'll probably try to fire some of the slightly dented rounds but the real bad rounds I'm sending back. Guess I'll just initally shoot it for plinking and then reload the brass myself for hunting and self defence. Looks like I'm gonna be doing a lot of plinking!



I had another 1000 rounds on order from the same place and cancelled my order after I saw how bad this stuff was. I almost placed an order through Georgia-Arms but decided to just order brass and bullets and load my own. It will save me a couple bucks anyway and I'll know I won't be shooting junk.
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Old November 14, 2008, 05:09 PM   #18
cchardwick
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OK, here's the update on my second case of 500 rounds. Total count was 502 (two extra). Quality was MUCH BETTER, in fact there were only 8 rounds that I pulled from the lot and the biggest problem was a damaged mouth from bullet seating or split brass at the neck by the bullet. These are pretty minor and probably could be shot but I'm returning them with the other defective ammo. Not including the two extra, that's only six bad rounds per 500, not too bad. Looks like it was only that first case that fell off the truck and rolled down the highway.

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Old November 14, 2008, 05:29 PM   #19
hankpac
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bad rounds

Those rounds are from the reject pile.
When a super fast machine process like this loads thousand of rounds (or ANYTHING for that matter) per hour, a laser device inspects each round and kicks them off the line, before either linking or boxing, or bulk loading, while the good ones go on for packaging.
Boxes and boxes of rejected ammo are pulled from the line each production day, and "surplused" out. These are bulk sold to companies like your supplier, Cheaper than dirt, and Sportsman's Guide, for instance, very cheaply, marked up, and re-sold to you.
The original buyer gets the good stuff, and the buyer of surplus rejects gets this crap. It would have to be dirt cheap for me to keep that stuff, and coupled with shipping costs, I think I would have felt ill-used.
Buy only 1st run, or start reloading yourself.
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Old November 14, 2008, 05:36 PM   #20
hogdogs
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Heck yeah... I ain't never reloaded but if I had a thousand rounds in that condition I would start... I may as well fire ammo I screwed up my self
If those are from the reject pile then I would send them all back! They also need weighed for low/high powder charges. Not worth the risk! Send the whole order back and demand a full refund. Put the refund dough into supplies and gear to load yer own...
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Old November 14, 2008, 05:39 PM   #21
Coyote Hitman
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Quote:
1) How do I dispose of the damaged ammo?
You call AIM Surplus, ask for Brian, explain the issue, and request a ppd shipping label to return it.
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Old November 14, 2008, 05:48 PM   #22
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Well, if that's teh ammo I think it is, you are buying seconds akin to teh M855PD. THe ones with loose bullets I wouldn't shoot, but the rest of it would.
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Old November 14, 2008, 06:01 PM   #23
cchardwick
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There was only one with a loose bullet and it wasn't loose enough to pull out, just a little wobbly. So I tested the worst of the worst, loaded up the 26 worst rounds and shot them in the back yard to see if I'd have any problems. All 26 fed and shot without any failure to feed problems at all. And the big dents came back out after shooting. The brass with the bent lips from inserting the bullets still had the bent lip after shooting, perhaps these can't be reloaded but I think the rest can. I figured these were rejects, no more bulk ammo for me. I should be OK with the rest of it though for plinking.

They should tell you up front that you are buying factory rejects!!!
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Old November 14, 2008, 06:17 PM   #24
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Did I miss this-what is the headstamp on it?
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Old November 14, 2008, 06:22 PM   #25
hogdogs
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CC, You mean like the reduced price power tools that plainly say "FACTORY RECONDITIONED" or tires and furniture as well as other items marked "FACTORY SECOND" or IRREGULAR SOME INCONSISTENCY CAN BE EXPECTED"...
Wouldn't that fall under just plain good business practice...
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