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Old November 12, 2008, 04:40 PM   #1
Bauer
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Concealed Carry and College

I live in a College town and I attend University. When I go to campus, I obviously leave my gun at home. I really don't like this. Literally right now I just received a voicemail saying there was an armed robbery in the area. Luckily for me, I am at home. If I was at school and returning home, I wouldn't be protected. Is there any chance of a program being implemented anywhere where students will be able to carry on campus legally? I though I had heard of Virginia Tech trying to do this.
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Old November 12, 2008, 04:47 PM   #2
David Armstrong
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Google "Students for Concealed Carry on Campus."
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Old November 12, 2008, 11:20 PM   #3
raimius
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Colorado State University, the state universities in Utah, and Blue Ridge Community College in VA allow CCW. Other than those, you are pretty much out of luck.

Students for Concealed Carry on Campus is trying to change state laws to get state schools to follow state CCW laws. They can be found on facebook and at concealedcampus.org
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Old November 12, 2008, 11:47 PM   #4
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I don't attend college but I'm all in favor of students being able to defend themselves and others... you know what they say... "Outlaw guns and only the outlaws will have them."
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Old November 12, 2008, 11:50 PM   #5
KLRANGL
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I totally hear where you're coming from Bauer, with a string of robberies and an attempted sexual assault lately... Our campus police do pretty much nothing to stop crime... Sure they are there once it happens, but until then you are on your own. They have even told us that it is our job to protect ourselves, but when I asked the university police chief if he would consider allowing concealed carry on campus, he said absolutely not...
Makes me sad, angry, frustrated, annoyed, peeved, .... yeah you get the picture...
All I get to bring to school is my Blackhawk folder and trusty Gladius (the flashlight, not the sword)

Btw... the board of directors of Liberty University, a private college here in VA, will be voting on whether to allow concealed carry on campus.
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Old November 13, 2008, 12:22 AM   #6
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I too, am in the same boat. I get nice emails detailing sexual assaults, muggings, beatings, armed robbery, crazy crack heads, that all happen literally a block away from my campus which is always a block from my home. Some girls apartment was invaded in the middle of the night and she was beat with a hammer. But other than the cops busting frat parties for underage drinking they do absolutely nothing. Oh and this is a NICE neighborhood, I can only imagine what goes on in the ghetto.:barf:
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Old November 13, 2008, 02:12 AM   #7
Bauer
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It makes no sense to my why we can carry in other places but not on campus. Today, these 2 idiots robbed a house a mile away from me in broad daylight wearing ski masks. Sure enough I got an email a few hours later saying it's all safe, even though no one had been apprehended yet... I just hope SCCC is making headway. I will have to email the fellow in charge at my school.
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Old November 13, 2008, 03:29 AM   #8
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if a student gets robbed or has a violent act committed against them because they didn't have their weapon they should sue their schools happy tushies. I told my V.P at my old job if I get robbed or I get hurt because of the companies dumb policy they would here from a lawyer. so here is a story that kinda applies to my post.
one night at 4am I get a call from our alarm company for our store telling me the alarm has been tripped. well they left me a voice mail because I could answer the phone in time. I had to find my cell phone in my pants pocket. so they left me a message and called Chuck our territory director he is next on the call list since I didn't answer. they call and he answers and they tell him what's going on and heads out for the store. I get dressed and grab my Glock and leave for the store. so Chuck and I get there right at the same time. so we are standing around b.s.ing while we wait for the cops to show up and enter the building with us like they are supposed to. we are not supposed to enter the building without the cops after the alarm has been tripped per company policy. well we talk for quite a while and Chuck and I start to get tired of waiting. so Chuck calls the cops and is like what the heck is taking so long for you guys to get here. so the dispatch lady tells him they had been and gone all ready. she asks him if he wants them to send an other car out, he says no I am tired of waiting. he hangs up and asks me if I felt ok going in with him. I was like yeah why not, so Chuck walks over to his truck and opens the door and pulls out a sig and loads it, I think it was a 226 but I am not 100% on that. so I went and grabbed my Glock out of my car and loaded it too. he turns and looks at me and says "you know thats against company policy right", I just smiled and said "do you know it is?" then he says to me "if any happens inside I'll do my best to save your job." I told him thanks and we went in. nobody was in the store but somebody had broke in, the small safe we had in a office was in the middle of the sales floor. I think they just gave up on trying to take it. it was a kind of a cool story that I thought I would sure with you guys.
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Old November 13, 2008, 12:42 PM   #9
Bauer
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So the moral of your story is I should just carry on campus anyways and not get caught. However, I think my penalty would be slightly more sever than yours.
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Old November 13, 2008, 12:42 PM   #10
David Armstrong
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if a student gets robbed or has a violent act committed against them because they didn't have their weapon they should sue their schools happy tushies. I told my V.P at my old job if I get robbed or I get hurt because of the companies dumb policy they would here from a lawyer.
Save your time and money. If you voluntarily agree to go someplace or do something knowing the risk involved, you can't then sue the school/company for encountering the risk. About the only valid suit like that is if there is an on-going problem and the company has ignored it and been deceptive in the nature of the danger.
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Old November 13, 2008, 01:08 PM   #11
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I think many make a valid argument that any entity or organization that prohibits you from carrying a legally possessed firearm then ethically should assume responsibility for your safety. If they will not then the restriction is immoral and you would not be dishonest or dishonorable in disobeying that rule.

However, you might suffer some consequences; legal or otherwise for it but you would be alive.

I think businesses that try to have you "waive" your right to self defense and then do nothing to protect you are only interested in their profit and liability and not your safety. This is wrong and unjust. May be legal but still wrong.
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Old November 13, 2008, 01:20 PM   #12
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I do not understand the no guns allowed on campus argument. Just like I do not understand why some businesses hand the dreaded no gun sign. Anyone willing to do harm (bad guys/gals), will not walk up to the door and say, O'man, I can't rob this place with a gun just because they read the sign, or I can't go shoot my teacher because he is on campus and I can't take a gun on campus. That logic stops working with kids around age 5-7. Bad people do not follow the rules, as evidenced by how they got their name.

I use these when possible for businesses:
http://secure.ohioccw.org/catalog/in...aa6d7ac4bee284

It shocks some managers and it quite effective.
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Old November 13, 2008, 01:38 PM   #13
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I like those!
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Old November 13, 2008, 01:40 PM   #14
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i wish theyd at least allow you to lock guns in your trunk out in the parking lot so i could go shoot after school and all id need to do to stop a shooting is run a few hundred yards
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Old November 13, 2008, 01:57 PM   #15
Turbocharged
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I'm right there with you guys. I regularly walk back to my car from the library after 11pm and it takes me 5-10 minutes to get back to my car in deserted areas. I probably get an email once a week outlining an armed robbery on campus. Luckily most of these happen in places not on my route back to my car, but who knows maybe one time it will.

On a side note...it is also a big hassle to be carrying and realize you need to do something on campus, so you have to go all the way home to drop off your pistol, then go to campus. This happens all the time to me.
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Old November 13, 2008, 02:17 PM   #16
Bauer
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Quote:
On a side note...it is also a big hassle to be carrying and realize you need to do something on campus, so you have to go all the way home to drop off your pistol, then go to campus. This happens all the time to me.
When this happens to me I just leave it in the car. What is the penalty for being caught on campus with a firearm? Possibly less punishment if you have a license to carry it elsewhere?
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Old November 13, 2008, 02:28 PM   #17
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There was an on-campus mid-day apartment invasion here last week; forced entry followed by robbery at gunpoint and culminated in a college student being locked in a closet. Luckily nobody was hurt and the theft only amounted to ~$800 (cell phone, cash, and video game console).

I live in a bastion of liberal folk. It's a university for goodness sakes, we're free thinkers and progressive thinkers, right? Thank goodness we are an otherwise conservative state. Long story short, I suspect that legalization of carry at my university will likely never happen. That being said, faculty and staff may carry a firearm in their vehicle as long as it in not loaded but cannot carry concealed around campus even if licensed by the state to do so. Students are forbidden from having firearms on campus. Go figure.
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Old November 13, 2008, 02:35 PM   #18
brockgl
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Well, I created my own solution to this problem when I was in college which was: I carried my gun anyway.

Where I live the law only states that it is illegal to carry on the property of K-12 schools; it says nothing about colleges or universities.

So, since there were no illegalities to doing so, I carried my gun to class despite my school's policy.

I was paying for my own college tuition; my parents gave me nothing for college. So, if I got expelled, the only person I hurt was myself. But if you keep your mouth shut and don't tell a single soul that you're carrying (including your closest friends), no one should ever know.

SmartCarry and Ankle-holsters are your friend.

I may not be in the majority, but my right to bear arms and my own personal safety are both far more important than my education. I mean, if you're dead, what good is your master's degree?

Since almost ALL universities refuse to allow students to carry, I said screw their policies and carried anyway. If it's against the law in your state, that's a different matter. You'd have to make you're own decision in that case, but I'm glad I never had to worry about that.

Last edited by brockgl; November 13, 2008 at 02:46 PM.
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Old November 14, 2008, 10:19 AM   #19
bds32
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Make sure you check your state laws before you attempt something like carrying it in your vehicle. You don't want to risk permanently losing your concealed carry license, and a firearms conviction on your record that could ruin any potential career you are seeking.

You might look at switching over to on-line education if your university offers it. That will keep you from going unarmed as you travel to and from school.
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Old November 14, 2008, 11:38 AM   #20
Hokie
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Well, any lawsuit would have to be premised on the idea that the school was unconstitutionally violating your rights by prohibiting you from carrying on campus. That you agreed to this restriction is immaterial if the school did not have the right to require it. IANAL.

As for carrying on campus, I'm not going to say one way or another; the law is muddy at best and the morality is for you to decide. At least in Virginia, you can legally carry on campus, they can legally ask you to leave the campus if they discover it, and they can legally administer "academic discipline" that includes expulsion. I will say, though, that I've experimented with carrying non-gun things larger than a handgun without a problem.

If you have any sort of connection to a member of your school's administration, see if they will let you demonstrate how easy it is to smuggle large items into the school, how long it will be until the police arrive, and how hard it is to escape from a classroom.
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Old November 14, 2008, 11:48 AM   #21
publius
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I went to a mojor university in the Deep South in the early'90's. I never CC'd but My Ruger MKII was always under the seat of my car. (caveats)- this was in the deep south almost 20 years ago, the campus police were cool, down-to-earth guys several of them knew me and liked my fraternity b/c they never had to worry about drugs w/us, all we had was Budweiser, we were just good 'ol boys like them (KA). never heard of anybody getting in trouble for firearms on campus except for some of our thug football players every now and then. Even then the police didn't just find them in a routine stop. always in an assault, rape, or actual gunfire case. Lobby your lawmakers & university, don't drink & drive(car search) do drugs (you're stupid,bad rep. car search) fight (bad rep., car search) I would never even drive through campus to go to the range w/an AK, AR, or cheap auto pistol. The first two scare some people and the last just looks bad. These days I probably(but not definitely) wouldn't carry. Unless you go to a school where you really feel unsafe on campus or have to travel through a bad place coming to and from campus, it just isn't worth getting kicked out of school.
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Old November 14, 2008, 11:48 AM   #22
David Armstrong
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What is the penalty for being caught on campus with a firearm?
Potentially a felony conviction and loss of firearms rights for the rest of your life. If a student, throw in being expelled from school.
Quote:
Possibly less punishment if you have a license to carry it elsewhere?
Anything is possible, but I wouldn't count on it.
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Old November 14, 2008, 01:11 PM   #23
eriadoc
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I can only speak to the Texas law, and I am not a lawyer, so read on your own and take responsibility for your own interpretation.

Texas CHL Laws

Quote:
PC ยง46.03.

Places Weapons Prohibited

(a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):

(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;

(2) on the premises of a polling place on the day of an election or while early voting is in progress;

(3) in any government court or offices utilized by the court, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the court;

(4) on the premises of a racetrack; or

(5) in or into a secured area of an airport.

(b) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsections (a)(1)-(4) that the actor possessed a firearm while in the actual discharge of his official duties as a member of the armed forces or national guard or a guard employed by a penal institution, or an officer of the court.

(c) In this section:

(1) "Premises" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035.

(2) "Secured area" means an area of an airport terminal building to which access is controlled by the inspection of persons and property under federal law.
So, on to Sec. 46.035 .....

Quote:
(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
Again, I am not a lawyer, so you're on your own, but the link above is where you'll find the laws for TX.
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Old November 14, 2008, 01:42 PM   #24
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Don't forget the Danny Rawlings case in the University of Florida. He killed five people and mutilated their bodies. I'm sure no one needs to be reminded of what happened in Virginia Tech. As long as someone is old enough and has a concealed weapon permit, they should be allowed to carry on campus. I'm sure the outcome would have been quite different had just a handful of students been armed that day. I carried in my car, but never on my person when I was in school. I just left the glove box locked until I left University property.

Until the laws change, I suggest you carry a good knife and flashlight. You might even consider going with good pepper spray or a Tazer.
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Old November 14, 2008, 03:06 PM   #25
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Potentially a felony conviction and loss of firearms rights for the rest of your life.
How do you figure that david? No law in VA that says I cant carry on a university (except for VCU, which does have a law saying you cant)... Only thing that stops me from doing so is a signed piece of paper telling the school I wouldn't. Misdemeanor trespassing I can sort of see... but felony?
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