The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 9, 2008, 05:55 PM   #26
Fremmer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 19, 2005
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 3,482
Quote:
The 2A is not in Obama's sights right now
Sure it is. Obama wants a new "assault weapons" ban. He's already said so. New legislation has been drafted by Democrats in congress, and it is ready for passage. And ready for Obama's signature. None of you seriously doubt that Obama will veto that legislation, do you? And that'll be just the beginning: wait for new restrictions on ammunition ('armor piercing'), taxes (noting like raising taxes on guns and ammunition), and 'sniper guns', which will probably be included in the assault weapons ban. After all, you really don't need powerful ammunition, powerful scopes, muzzle breaks, and more than a two shot capacity to hunt, you know.....
Fremmer is offline  
Old November 9, 2008, 07:13 PM   #27
Webleymkv
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 9,926
Quote:
Quote:
The 2A is not in Obama's sights right now

Sure it is. Obama wants a new "assault weapons" ban. He's already said so. New legislation has been drafted by Democrats in congress, and it is ready for passage. And ready for Obama's signature. None of you seriously doubt that Obama will veto that legislation, do you? And that'll be just the beginning: wait for new restrictions on ammunition ('armor piercing'), taxes (noting like raising taxes on guns and ammunition), and 'sniper guns', which will probably be included in the assault weapons ban. After all, you really don't need powerful ammunition, powerful scopes, muzzle breaks, and more than a two shot capacity to hunt, you know.....
Bush also said that he'd renew the AWB but it never happened. Frankly, I think that Obama and the Democrats have got a lot bigger fish to fry than gun control right now. Remember, Obama changes what he says about gun control (and several other issues) depending on what crowd he's talking to. While that means he may not be a friend of gunowners, it also mean that he may not be the enemy that we think he is either. I've got a feeling that Obama is the type to do and say what will get him elected more than what he thinks is right. The man isn't stupid and has probably seen that gun control has been a losing issue for his party for quite some time now. While I do think that it's certainly something that we need to keep an eye on, I also think that there are too many moderate and conservative Democrats in congress to go into full-on panic mode just yet. Also remember, the Democrats don't have their fillibuster-proof supermajority in the Senate. When it boils right down to it, I doubt we'll see any overt attacks on 2A during Obama's first term without some catastrophe to motivate it (i.e. school shooting, assasaination of a prominent figure, etc.)
__________________
Smith, and Wesson, and Me. -H. Callahan
Well waddaya know, one buwwet weft! -E. Fudd
All bad precedents begin as justifiable measures. -J. Caesar
Webleymkv is offline  
Old November 9, 2008, 09:02 PM   #28
divemedic
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 12, 2006
Posts: 1,313
This President, like any other, has a fixed amount of political capital to spend. There are many issues out there that will require expending that capital, among them:

raising the minimum wage to $9.50 an hour over two years
universal healthcare
ending the war in Iraq
ending Afghanistan
Stopping Iran from developing nukes, and failing that, stopping the war in the middle east that will follow- especially since the US will have a smaller presence there (that war will almost be guaranteed to go nuclear when Iran and Israel get into it)
Russia's new military build up, and nuclear missile deployment into Europe (a move which violates current treaties)
China's new military buildup
India's military buildup
Venezuela's military buildup (along with the fact that Russia is basing nuclear bombers there)
Cuba's military buildup, and the imminent death of Cuba's and N Korea's leaders, and the turmoil that will cause, and last but certainly not least, the failing economy.

That doesn't even take into account the miscellaneous unforeseen things that will crop up, nor does it address the $11 trillion US debt, the looming inflation crisis, or the other items on his agenda.

All of this will require a lot of effort, and will leave little time and effort to fight the battle over a bunch of gun control laws, and the markers that will be given out to placate the RINOs needed to break the fillibuster. With all that said, I have been hedging my bets for over a year by buying guns, magazines, ammo, and spare parts.
__________________
Caveat Emperor
divemedic is offline  
Old November 9, 2008, 09:39 PM   #29
Socrates
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 5, 2005
Location: East Bay NorCal, People's Republik of Kalifornia
Posts: 5,866
Might be wise to keep a functioning industry in place.
Another issue he has to face is the massive moving of production facilities to third world countries, screwing up our economy.
Socrates is offline  
Old November 9, 2008, 10:40 PM   #30
jimpeel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 11, 1999
Location: Longmont, CO, USA
Posts: 4,482
The fly in the ointment is this: The Edward Kennedy Memorial <insert bill name> Act.

Does anyone here think that there would be any opposition to anything with that name on it after he croaks?

Remember the things he tried to attach to the lawful commerce in firearms act? We discussed it at length in L&P and those discussions are still out there for research for those willing to do so.

They will hoist anti-firearms legislation before he assumes room temperature and everyone will jump on it and give it the sympathy vote. Ted would've wanted it that way, ya know.
__________________
Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm.

"Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare

"Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed"
-- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey
jimpeel is offline  
Old November 9, 2008, 11:36 PM   #31
Ricky B
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 3, 2002
Posts: 251
This President, like any other, has a fixed amount of political capital to spend.

As DiveMedic said, plus:

Raising income taxes so he can hand out "refunds" to those who haven't paid income taxes (about one-third of Americans who would receive the promised middle-class tax cut will receive their "tax cut" in the form of a refundable tax credit even though they have no income tax liability).

Global warming

Solving the Israeli-Paestinian conflict

Repealing or re-negotiating NAFTA

Immigration reform

Giving employees "free choice" in deciding whether to have a union pursuant to the Orwellian-named Employee Free Choice Act that he sponsored as a Senator (which actually deprives workers of the right to vote for or against a union in a government-supervised election with secret balloting).

Dealing with home foreclosures and this thing called the economy

And so on.

No, the President-elect has a full plate, and I say that gun control is not on the menu for this term.

In a recent interview, Rahm Emmanuel, a former Clinton White House aide and now the Chief-of-Staff-designate, said that the Clinton administration got into trouble with gays in the military and other things that they didn't get elected to do. He made it clear that Mr. Obama's job is to get the things done that he was elected to get done.

Mr. Obama did not run on a take-their-guns-away platform. Regardless of what his actual views are, he doesn't need this headache. In his second term, maybe.

Mr. Emmanuel is focused and disciplined, with very sharp elbows, and he will crack the whip on the Dems in congress to keep them in line. My guess (and hope) is that he will see that "cracking down on guns" won't add to his president's re-election prospects and will only galvanize the opposition. I have great confidence that Mr. Emmanuel will browbeat, intimidate, and neuter anyone who interferes with Mr. Obama's re-election.
Ricky B is offline  
Old November 10, 2008, 01:12 AM   #32
jimpeel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 11, 1999
Location: Longmont, CO, USA
Posts: 4,482
By the way, there's always this. Obama may not want to wait for the Congress to act.

The PEO was supposed to be used for Executive Branch issues only but we have seen the PEO used for much more in recent years. As Paul Begala once stated "Stroke of the pen, law of the land. Pretty cool."

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/11...orders-review/

As one person in the article states: "Executive orders have the power of law and they can cover just about anything," Tobias said in a telephone interview."

Quote:
Obama's Transition Chief: Bush's Executive Orders Under Review

The incoming administration is currently reviewing President Bush's executive orders on a host of issues, Barack Obama's transition chief John Podesta said on Sunday.

Sunday, November 09, 2008

President-elect Obama plans to use his executive powers to make an immediate impact when he takes office, perhaps reversing Bush administration policies on stem cell research and domestic drilling for oil and natural gas.

John Podesta, Obama's transition chief, said Sunday Obama is reviewing President Bush's executive orders on those issues and others as he works to undo policies enacted during eight years of Republican rule. He said the president can use such orders to move quickly on his own.

"There's a lot that the president can do using his executive authority without waiting for congressional action, and I think we'll see the president do that," Podesta said. "I think that he feels like he has a real mandate for change. We need to get off the course that the Bush administration has set."

Podesta also said Obama is working to build a diverse Cabinet. That includes reaching out to Republicans and independents -- part of the broad coalition that supported Obama during the race against Republican John McCain. Defense Secretary Robert Gates has been mentioned as a possible holdover.

"He's not even a Republican," Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada said. "Why wouldn't we want to keep him? He's never been a registered Republican."

Obama was elected on a promise of change, but the nature of the job makes it difficult for presidents to do much that has an immediate impact on the lives of average people. Congress plans to take up a second economic aid plan before year's end -- an effort Obama supports, But it could be months or longer before taxpayers see the effect.

Obama could use his executive powers to at least signal that Washington is changing.

"Obama's advantage of course is he'll have the House and the Senate working with him, and that makes it easier," said Carl Tobias, a law professor at the University of Richmond. "But even then, having an immediate impact is very difficult to do because the machinery of government doesn't move that quickly."

Presidents long have used executive orders to impose policy and set priorities. One of Bush's first acts was to reinstate full abortion restrictions on U.S. overseas aid. The restrictions were first ordered by President Reagan and the first President Bush followed suit. President Clinton lifted them soon after he occupied the Oval Office and it wouldn't be surprising if Obama did the same.

Executive orders "have the power of law and they can cover just about anything," Tobias said in a telephone interview.

Bush used his executive power to limit federal spending on embryonic stem cell research, a position championed by opponents of abortion rights who argue that destroying embryos is akin to killing a fetus. Obama has supported the research in an effort to find cures for diseases such as Alzheimer's. Many moderate Republicans also support the research, giving it the stamp of bipartisanship.

On drilling, the federal Bureau of Land Management is opening about 360,000 acres of public land in Utah to oil and gas drilling. Bush administration officials argue that the drilling will not harm sensitive areas; environmentalists oppose it.

"They want to have oil and gas drilling in some of the most sensitive, fragile lands in Utah," Podesta said. "I think that's a mistake."

Two top House Republicans said there is a willingness to try to work with Obama to get things done. But they said to expect Republicans to serve as a check against the power held by Obama and Democratic leaders in Congress.

"It's going to be a cheerful opposition," said Rep. Mike Pence, R-Ind. "We're going to carry those timeless principles of limited government, a strong defense, traditional values, to the American people."

Pence, of Indiana, is expected to take over the No. 3 leadership post among House Republicans.

In other transition matters, Obama's new chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, would not say whether Obama would return to the Senate for votes during the postelection session this month. Obama's presence would be extraordinary, given his position as president-elect, especially if Congress takes up a much-anticipated economic stimulus plan.

"I think that the basic approach has been he's going to be here in Chicago, setting up his economic, not only his economic team, but the policies he wants to outline for the country as soon as he gets sworn in, so we hit the ground running," Emanuel said.

Also, Emanuel would not commit to a Democratic proposal to help the auto industry with some of the $700 billion approved by Congress to for the financial bailout.

Reid and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said in a letter Saturday to Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson that the administration should consider expanding the bailout to include car companies.

Podesta appeared on "Fox News Sunday," as did Pence, and CNN's "Late Edition," where Reid also was interviewed. Emanuel spoke on ABC's "This Week" and CBS' "Face the Nation."
__________________
Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm.

"Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare

"Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed"
-- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey
jimpeel is offline  
Old November 10, 2008, 10:25 AM   #33
Musketeer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 12, 2005
Posts: 3,732
Obama will not be behind a direct 2A attack, at least not in this term. He might sign on to one but he is not going to waste his limited capital on pushing for it when his list of "Societal Change" issues will most likely consume it all.

As I said, look out for regulation through Environmental issues (lead ammo taxes/bans) which if you oppose it's because you "hate the Earth" and especially be wary of who he sends to the UN the next time they come around looking to ban private arms...
__________________
"Religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies." Thomas Jefferson

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." Benjamin Franklin
Musketeer is offline  
Old November 10, 2008, 03:41 PM   #34
Te Anau
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 17, 2004
Location: Somewhere south of the No
Posts: 3,824
I just hope that gun control is extremely low on the lefts agenda at this time in American history.If it isn't, I fear for the future of the nation.
__________________
"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it." --American author Mark Twain (1835-1910)
Te Anau is offline  
Old November 10, 2008, 05:10 PM   #35
Glenn E. Meyer
Staff
 
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 15,736
Why - the existential future of the USA? If Obama tried to pass very strict controls, he would probably lose the majorities in the House and Senate in 2010.

Then the laws would be undone - happened before.

If you want to pose an existential crisis, you need to lay it out. If you think that gun laws will lead to some revolution in this time of economic crisis - to be blunt you are flat out mistaken despite internet rhetoric. With the economy in the toilet, there will be NO support for further disrupting our future over, for example, a new AWB renewal.

I'm a little frustrated by the constant TEOTWAWKI predictions. The USA didn't end with the Brady Bill, etc. We soldiered on.

Here's what I said before:

1. The loss of McCain is based on Bush's incompetency and the economy tanking.

2. The majority that voted for Obama just didn't care about guns given #1.

3. Basing support for the RKBA on a crappy president as the only issue, first freedom - obviously is a failed strategy - only good for internet venting.

4. Realize this and adopt strategies to convince antigun folks like Obama that it is their interest to leave the issue alone or even to appreciate the RKBA.

5. If you don't want to expand support of the RKBA out of the social conservatives for some tribal identity hang-up, again you adopt a failed strategy.

So the world and the USA is not ending.

PS - it is ending. I just read that Starbucks profits dropped 97%. If Starbucks fails, who is going to care that EBRs are too expensive.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc.
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm
Being an Academic Shooter
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm
Being an Active Shooter

Last edited by Glenn E. Meyer; November 10, 2008 at 05:32 PM.
Glenn E. Meyer is online now  
Old November 11, 2008, 02:58 PM   #36
Te Anau
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 17, 2004
Location: Somewhere south of the No
Posts: 3,824
Quote:
So the world and the USA is not ending.
It's not ending imminently,but this nation is divided and I feel like it's the 1840's and 1850's all over again but with different splintering issues.What solutions will come out of this mess is anybody's guess.
__________________
"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it." --American author Mark Twain (1835-1910)
Te Anau is offline  
Old November 11, 2008, 03:45 PM   #37
divemedic
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 12, 2006
Posts: 1,313
This article shows that gun control is not even in the top agendas of most of the voters. Here are selected sentences from the article:

Quote:
Only about one in three, or 36 percent, said they wanted Obama to make income-tax cuts a top priority when he takes office, and even fewer wanted higher taxes on the rich to be a primary goal.

Instead, 84 percent said strengthening the economy should be a top-tier priority. Eighty percent also named creating jobs as a No. 1 order of business.

Highlighting anew how the Iraq war has faded as a paramount public concern, only half of people said they wanted Obama to make a U.S. troop withdrawal a top focus upon taking office.

Half also said they wanted universal health care coverage to be a No. 1 priority, again with far more Democrats than Republicans citing it as a top goal.
With that said, I don't know how 184% of people can demand a No 1 priority, but I am not so good at "media math," but the Dems appear to be concentrating on getting free stuff from the public coffers over trying to outlaw guns, but I am sure they won't mind if gun laws do come along for the ride.
__________________
Caveat Emperor
divemedic is offline  
Old November 11, 2008, 04:49 PM   #38
JWT
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 16, 2007
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 3,168
Obama is perhaps smart enough not to want to get into a 'knock 'em down drag 'em out' over an issue as devisive as gun control to start off his administration but he appears to be surrounding himself with old time liberal Democrats who may be more inclined to have him push the issue.

The 'Chicago crowd' - from whence he came -certainly is on record as being very anti gun and he 'owes them big time'; in addition the old time liberal Democrats like Kennedy, Shumer, et. al would gladly join them in pushing an anti gun agenda.

I certainly respect the opinion of those who have posted their opinions that gun control is going to be far down the list of issues to be worked on by our new president. Even more, I hope they're 100% correct.
JWT is offline  
Old November 11, 2008, 11:14 PM   #39
tyme
Staff
 
Join Date: October 13, 2001
Posts: 3,178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antipitas's intelligence network
[Obama's groupies] are trying to figure out how to prevent illegal sales on city streets...
Simple... get rid of all the federal gun regs and make those sales legal... federally at least. No more illegal sales. What do I win?
__________________
“The egg hatched...” “...the egg hatched... and a hundred baby spiders came out...” (blade runner)
“Who are you?” “A friend. I'm here to prevent you from making a mistake.” “You have no idea what I'm doing here, friend.” “In specific terms, no, but I swore an oath to protect the world...” (continuum)
“It's a goal you won't understand until later. Your job is to make sure he doesn't achieve the goal.” (bsg)
tyme is offline  
Old November 12, 2008, 09:20 PM   #40
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 11,508
Nice thought....

I do wonder how many of the illegal street dealers do get prosecuted on Federal charges (engaging in the business without a license)? I think they ususally only face state charges (often felon in posession?) most of the time.

Or, more likely, if they do wind up facing Fed charges, some kind of plea bargin is made.

I am publically apologizing for statements I made in this post, which I have removed. A vigilant member was kind enough to inform me that they could be considered as skirting the line with regards to our L&CR rules and mission statement, something I had not even realized. My thanks for that, and my apologies to all for my failure to recognize in my own post the sort of things I am supposed to be looking for in others.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

Last edited by 44 AMP; November 13, 2008 at 12:30 AM. Reason: admission of guilt, sort of
44 AMP is offline  
Old November 13, 2008, 12:17 AM   #41
raimius
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2008
Posts: 1,326
I can hardly remember any prosecutions of illegal "street dealers." Sad really. The antis who profess to be against violence make laws mainly against peaceful, legal buyers and don't go after the criminals and their violent friends...
raimius is offline  
Old November 13, 2008, 12:55 AM   #42
jimpeel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 11, 1999
Location: Longmont, CO, USA
Posts: 4,482
The whole thing with "illegal street dealers selling guns out of the trunk of their car" was a put up sham. It was an oft repeated lament of the anti-firearms agendists to garner support from those too stupid, or too lazy, to do any research on the subject beyond the nightly news.
__________________
Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm.

"Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare

"Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed"
-- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey
jimpeel is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.11007 seconds with 7 queries