Remington 32 auto pistol - info request

ludwig1138 · November 2, 2008, 11:44 PM

Got a pistol from my dad that used to belong to my grandpa. He had it when my mom was a kid so it's at least 70 years old.

Remington UMC 32 auto. SN PA90760 Has proof marks on the left side of KT and on the right side of an anchor symbol. Marked 32 auto and 7.62 on the barrel breach. Looks like bakelite grips with UMC molded in.

It's in real nice condition. Original blue and almost no wear. I'm going to take it out to the range and shoot it in the morning.

Anyone know when it was made, etc, and a value? Also disassembly instructions? :-)

Appreciate the help.

Bill

Jim Watson · November 3, 2008, 01:34 AM

You have a Remington Model 51, built 1918 - 1934; KT is the Remington date code for May, 1926. PA serial number prefix stands for Pedersen Automatic, the designer of this gun, several other Remingtons, and the WW I Pedersen Device. (Pedersen, not Peterson.) Contrary to some legends, the anchor mark does not mean it was Navy issue, although the US Navy did consider the big Model 53 as an alternative to the 1911.

Grandpa's is rather unusual; Remington, unlike Colt and others, made way more .380s than .32s, yours is a fairly scarce piece, so take care of it.

Discussion and takedown - which is NOT intuitively obvious - are at
http://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/Rem51/rem51.html

Be very careful if you want to take off the grips (not recommended, they are brittle old plastic and absolutely irreplaceable if broken. From a previous thread:
DO NOT TRY TO PRY OFF THE GRIPS!!!

The grips have metal backing plates that fit into cuts in the frame. To remove the grips, press in (upward) on the hammer spring plug at the bottom rear of the grip. With the plug depressed, push the cross pin above it flush with the frame on one side. The grip on that side can now be slid down and disengaged from the frame. Repeat the process with the other side, pushing the pin flush with the frame on that side. Re-install in reverse.

I won't guess a dollar value, but for a .32 will be substantial. If you don't break the grips trying to get them off or crack the separate internal breechblock with too muchs shooting.

ludwig1138 · November 3, 2008, 03:48 PM

Thanks very much for that information.

I shot it this morning and it performed very nicely. I think I'll clean it up and give it back to Dad. He'll be pleased to know the story on it.

bill

PetahW · November 4, 2008, 12:13 PM

I just sold a 98% .380, with a chipped grip corner, for $500 w/o box, etc.

As posted, a .32 is valued higher, in like condition.

.

Tom2 · November 4, 2008, 08:51 PM

I got a book that says that is a type 3 variation. The 32's from serial number 90,501 to 92,626(last gun) were sold between 1926 and 1934, but production virtually stopped in 1927. Remingtons are quite desireable collectables now. So beware much shooting as we don't want any parts to break, good luck finding replacements, and just clean preserve and TLC it.

PetahW · November 4, 2008, 09:56 PM

Remington Model 51 Pistol, serial PA90760 was one of the 1417 manufactured in .32 cal, in 1926 (during which year .32's w/sn's from PA90501 through PA91917 were made).

.

ludwig1138 · November 4, 2008, 10:55 PM

Quote:

I just sold a 98% .380, with a chipped grip corner, for $500 w/o box, etc.

We have the box too. Lid is torn some and held together with rubber bands, but it's there. The gun has been wrapped in chamois cloth with oil as long as grandpa had it. It's put away and probably won't be fired anymore. I wouldn't begin to know how to go about selling it.

bill

Tom2 · November 5, 2008, 08:24 AM

I'd have to see the box too, but maybe it could be repaired or something by a skilled person. Like fixed to the point that it looks better and will not come apart any further. I think the proper box adds value. Sometimes damage to articles like that will only get worse over time from normal handling etc. Maybe repaired with rice paper patches and rice glue or whatever they use to repair paper items that are damaged. Unless the box is saturated with oil or something and is disintegrating, I think it could be improved. A collector would love the box with it. If it is not gonna be shot at all, there might be better ways to store it rather than oily. Old guns that are just for display often get a coat of special wax instead of oils. But you would have to degrease it before that. Like they would do to museum display it.

PetahW · November 5, 2008, 10:00 AM

Approx 10 years ago, I sold a 96% .380 with a pretty decent box to a gun show dealer for $750.
I would expect to get at least $900 today, if not more, for the same gun.

I buy them, every once in a while when I run across one cheap - because I know their value, and the seller usually doesn't.

But........ I always hesitate to keep them for a shooter, as beautifully designed as they are - lest an unobtainium part break; and so sell them for something more practical.

It's OK to keep the pistol in an oily wrap in the box - just insulate the box from the oil by lining the box with an oil-proof waxpaper, similar to the wrap on older Ruger revolvers & available online.

If you're not used to the delicacy required for the box repairs, you might consider contacting a paper restorer/conservator, connected with a historical society in your area, for guidance.

.

**James K** · November 5, 2008, 04:27 PM

That pistol was designed (as the markings indicate) by John D. Pedersen, who was Remington's in-house designer for many years and who also designed the famous "Pedersen device."

The design is often praised because it uses a two-part breech, allowing a sort of delayed blowback action that supposedly allows a lighter weight and less recoil. Sounds good, but the real reason for that complex design is that the now-normal one-piece breechblock and slide had been patented by a fellow named Browning, and the other designers, like Pedersen (Remington) and Searle (Savage), had to work around that patent.

Jim

JimScott · November 9, 2008, 06:44 PM

I just came into possesion from my dad's collectin a Remington UMC 32 Cal Pistol. SN #PA64067. No Box but it did include a leather holster. Wondering what it's worth.

Tom2 · November 9, 2008, 07:08 PM

Substantial variation in value depending on condition, moreso than the serial number. But all of them have collectors interest unless really ratty or neglected into a rusty relic status. So maybe post pictures or describe percent of original finish remaining, any rust or pitting, functionality, etc. A holster will generally add value if it is specifically made for that model of gun, for example, a German marked matching holster for a Luger, P-38, or a period holster with an antique pistol. If it is some kind of unmarked generic holster made for a variety of small autos, it might add a little but not as much as one that was intentionally manufactured for the gun, IMO.

PetahW · November 10, 2008, 03:50 PM

[a Remington UMC 32 Cal Pistol. SN #PA64067.]

That P51 is one of 2,547 made in .32 cal in 1922.

.

elrod · November 10, 2008, 08:25 PM

Blue Book of Gun Values, 29th ed.

Model 51 Semi-Auto, .32 ACP or .380 ACP cal., 8 shot (7+1), hard rubber 2-piece grips with companys name, black finish. Approx. 65,000 mfg. 1918-1926

100%--$800
98%--$750
95%--$650
90%--$500
80%--$375
70%--$350
60%--$300
50%--$250
40%--$225
30%--$200
20%--$175
Note: .380 ACP much more common than .32 ACP cal, but commands a slight premium. (

)

November 2, 2008, 11:44 PM	#1
ludwig1138 Member Join Date: July 31, 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 74	Remington 32 auto pistol - info request Got a pistol from my dad that used to belong to my grandpa. He had it when my mom was a kid so it's at least 70 years old. Remington UMC 32 auto. SN PA90760 Has proof marks on the left side of KT and on the right side of an anchor symbol. Marked 32 auto and 7.62 on the barrel breach. Looks like bakelite grips with UMC molded in. It's in real nice condition. Original blue and almost no wear. I'm going to take it out to the range and shoot it in the morning. Anyone know when it was made, etc, and a value? Also disassembly instructions? :-) Appreciate the help. Bill __________________ Look out for the floor

November 3, 2008, 03:48 PM	#3
ludwig1138 Member Join Date: July 31, 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 74	Thanks very much for that information. I shot it this morning and it performed very nicely. I think I'll clean it up and give it back to Dad. He'll be pleased to know the story on it. bill __________________ Look out for the floor

November 4, 2008, 08:51 PM	#5
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,644	I got a book that says that is a type 3 variation. The 32's from serial number 90,501 to 92,626(last gun) were sold between 1926 and 1934, but production virtually stopped in 1927. Remingtons are quite desireable collectables now. So beware much shooting as we don't want any parts to break, good luck finding replacements, and just clean preserve and TLC it. __________________ Your gun is like your nose, it is just wrong for someone else to pick it for you!

November 5, 2008, 08:24 AM	#8
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,644	I'd have to see the box too, but maybe it could be repaired or something by a skilled person. Like fixed to the point that it looks better and will not come apart any further. I think the proper box adds value. Sometimes damage to articles like that will only get worse over time from normal handling etc. Maybe repaired with rice paper patches and rice glue or whatever they use to repair paper items that are damaged. Unless the box is saturated with oil or something and is disintegrating, I think it could be improved. A collector would love the box with it. If it is not gonna be shot at all, there might be better ways to store it rather than oily. Old guns that are just for display often get a coat of special wax instead of oils. But you would have to degrease it before that. Like they would do to museum display it. __________________ Your gun is like your nose, it is just wrong for someone else to pick it for you!

November 5, 2008, 10:00 AM	#9
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 3,288	Approx 10 years ago, I sold a 96% .380 with a pretty decent box to a gun show dealer for $750. I would expect to get at least $900 today, if not more, for the same gun. I buy them, every once in a while when I run across one cheap - because I know their value, and the seller usually doesn't. But........ I always hesitate to keep them for a shooter, as beautifully designed as they are - lest an unobtainium part break; and so sell them for something more practical. It's OK to keep the pistol in an oily wrap in the box - just insulate the box from the oil by lining the box with an oil-proof waxpaper, similar to the wrap on older Ruger revolvers & available online. If you're not used to the delicacy required for the box repairs, you might consider contacting a paper restorer/conservator, connected with a historical society in your area, for guidance. . Last edited by PetahW; November 5, 2008 at 09:19 PM.

November 3, 2008, 01:34 AM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 9,673	You have a Remington Model 51, built 1918 - 1934; KT is the Remington date code for May, 1926. PA serial number prefix stands for Pedersen Automatic, the designer of this gun, several other Remingtons, and the WW I Pedersen Device. (Pedersen, not Peterson.) Contrary to some legends, the anchor mark does not mean it was Navy issue, although the US Navy did consider the big Model 53 as an alternative to the 1911. Grandpa's is rather unusual; Remington, unlike Colt and others, made way more .380s than .32s, yours is a fairly scarce piece, so take care of it. Discussion and takedown - which is NOT intuitively obvious - are at http://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/Rem51/rem51.html Be very careful if you want to take off the grips (not recommended, they are brittle old plastic and absolutely irreplaceable if broken. From a previous thread: DO NOT TRY TO PRY OFF THE GRIPS!!! The grips have metal backing plates that fit into cuts in the frame. To remove the grips, press in (upward) on the hammer spring plug at the bottom rear of the grip. With the plug depressed, push the cross pin above it flush with the frame on one side. The grip on that side can now be slid down and disengaged from the frame. Repeat the process with the other side, pushing the pin flush with the frame on that side. Re-install in reverse. I won't guess a dollar value, but for a .32 will be substantial. If you don't break the grips trying to get them off or crack the separate internal breechblock with too muchs shooting.

November 4, 2008, 12:13 PM	#4
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 3,288	I just sold a 98% .380, with a chipped grip corner, for $500 w/o box, etc. As posted, a .32 is valued higher, in like condition. .

November 4, 2008, 09:56 PM	#6
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 3,288	Remington Model 51 Pistol, serial PA90760 was one of the 1417 manufactured in .32 cal, in 1926 (during which year .32's w/sn's from PA90501 through PA91917 were made). .

November 5, 2008, 04:27 PM	#10
James K Staff Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 16,435	That pistol was designed (as the markings indicate) by John D. Pedersen, who was Remington's in-house designer for many years and who also designed the famous "Pedersen device." The design is often praised because it uses a two-part breech, allowing a sort of delayed blowback action that supposedly allows a lighter weight and less recoil. Sounds good, but the real reason for that complex design is that the now-normal one-piece breechblock and slide had been patented by a fellow named Browning, and the other designers, like Pedersen (Remington) and Searle (Savage), had to work around that patent. Jim __________________ Jim K

November 9, 2008, 06:44 PM	#11
JimScott Junior Member Join Date: November 9, 2008 Posts: 3	I just came into possesion from my dad's collectin a Remington UMC 32 Cal Pistol. SN #PA64067. No Box but it did include a leather holster. Wondering what it's worth.

November 9, 2008, 07:08 PM	#12
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,644	Substantial variation in value depending on condition, moreso than the serial number. But all of them have collectors interest unless really ratty or neglected into a rusty relic status. So maybe post pictures or describe percent of original finish remaining, any rust or pitting, functionality, etc. A holster will generally add value if it is specifically made for that model of gun, for example, a German marked matching holster for a Luger, P-38, or a period holster with an antique pistol. If it is some kind of unmarked generic holster made for a variety of small autos, it might add a little but not as much as one that was intentionally manufactured for the gun, IMO. __________________ Your gun is like your nose, it is just wrong for someone else to pick it for you!

November 10, 2008, 03:50 PM	#13
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 3,288	[a Remington UMC 32 Cal Pistol. SN #PA64067.] That P51 is one of 2,547 made in .32 cal in 1922. .

November 10, 2008, 08:25 PM	#14
elrod Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2007 Location: Heart of the heart of Dixie Posts: 235	Blue Book of Gun Values, 29th ed. Model 51 Semi-Auto, .32 ACP or .380 ACP cal., 8 shot (7+1), hard rubber 2-piece grips with companys name, black finish. Approx. 65,000 mfg. 1918-1926 100%--$800 98%--$750 95%--$650 90%--$500 80%--$375 70%--$350 60%--$300 50%--$250 40%--$225 30%--$200 20%--$175 Note: .380 ACP much more common than .32 ACP cal, but commands a slight premium. () __________________ Freedom ain't free!