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Old October 30, 2008, 08:12 AM   #1
SoldiersSon
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Investigating a noise:

http://cbs11tv.com/local/watauga.sta....2.851147.html

WATAGUA (CBS 11 News) ― Doctors had to amputate the arm of a Watauga homeowner Wednesday morning after he was injured in a fight with a crook. The man interrupted a robbery attempt in front of his house and ended up getting stabbed and then shot with his own gun.

Debris – including the homeowner's shotgun – from the scuffle was scattered in the yards of several homes as police continued their investigation nearly seven hours after the man first interrupted the robbery, authorities said.

According to reports, the homeowner heard some noise near his portable trailer parked outside his house in the 6000 block of Sundown Drive and went outside. His wife called 911 and woke a friend who had stayed the night at the house.

The robber, who was armed with a knife, struggled with the homeowner and his guest in the driveway. During the scuffle the homeowner dropped his gun and as the men clamored for the weapon, it went off and hit the homeowner in the arm. The house guest was also stabbed during the altercation.

Officials later said doctors amputated the man's arm because his injuries were so severe. The injury is a detrimental loss for the victim, who works as a mechanic for American Airlines and was also a part-time contractor.

One neighbor heard the gunshot, but dismissed the noise because he did not suspect it would have been a gunshot in his neighborhood.

Police continue their search for the alleged thief/attacker. "Since daylight we found a few additional items that came out of the trailer," explained Watauga Police Det. Jason Babcock. "Apparently whoever broke in to this trailer took some items and stashed them along the way in between houses."

Residents in the neighborhood say they will now be more diligent about their personal safety, including Nancy Bennett, who usually works nights and comes home in the early morning hours. She thinks the man could have been searching for an easy target.


Police believe there may have been more than one suspect. There were security cameras set up on the garage but they weren't working.

Authorities urge residents to call police instead of confronting anyone at any time of the day.

As I was reading this story, I immediately thought of this forum. It just goes to show you never know what's going to happen. The thief was armed with a knife, and the homeowner was armed with a shotgun AND had someone with him.

I think he was lucky to escape with his life. There could have been several people trying to break in to his trailer and he could have been outgunned.
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Old October 30, 2008, 08:21 AM   #2
chrisp0410
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One more reason

This should serve notice as one more reason why a person should not investigate noises in the nigh or clear their home when they feel an intruder might be present. In this case, the victim was clearly better armed (shotgun vs knife) yet he lost the fight. Whether he was ambushed by the intruder or he didn't have the will to go the distance, one may never know.

To all the folks who would place their lives in harms way for some possessions, think about this. In this case, the victim was concerned for his trailer. The outcome is a permanent disability, mental anguish and loss of income potential the victim would have had the capability to earn between the incident and his date of retirement.

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Old October 30, 2008, 09:13 AM   #3
easyG
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This should serve notice as one more reason why a person should not investigate noises in the nigh or clear their home when they feel an intruder might be present.
I disagree.

We don't know the specifics of what happened in this case, but for hundreds of years armed folks have successfully stopped criminal activity, and often apprehended criminals without the aid of police.
I think that it's a real shame that some folks seem convinced that they need to call the police just because they hear a noise in the night.
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Old October 30, 2008, 09:18 AM   #4
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The point I was emphasizing was that the homeowner went into an unknown situation assuming he was equipped to neutralize the threat.
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Old October 30, 2008, 10:04 AM   #5
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chrisp0410, you have it nailed.

Our law enforcement officers are trained, paid and authorized to handle criminal situations. It is only when emergency use of deadly force is necessary and justified that a civilian should resort to it.
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Old October 30, 2008, 10:10 AM   #6
David Armstrong
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Quote:
We don't know the specifics of what happened in this case, but for hundreds of years armed folks have successfully stopped criminal activity, and often apprehended criminals without the aid of police.
And for hundreds of years armed folk have been hurt and killed trying to stop criminal activity. Is it worth it? I bet the Watauga homeowner and his friend would say "no."
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Old October 30, 2008, 10:13 AM   #7
besafe2
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Hindsight is always 20/20 but I would also have to say this home owner should've stayed inside and called 911.
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Old October 30, 2008, 10:14 AM   #8
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I totally agree with Crisp0410. I believe 911 had been called. Let the Police handle it. Different story if my life is in danger IN my home.


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Old October 30, 2008, 10:20 AM   #9
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I just can't see calling the police everytime a raccoon gets on my deck and knocks over the grill, or whenever the neighbors cats are "doing the wild thing" under my porch, or whenever a falling tree-limb hits the house, etc...

Surely you guys don't really call the police everytime you hear an odd noise?

You don't check it out yourselves before dialing 911?
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Old October 30, 2008, 10:37 AM   #10
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From easyG:
Quote:
I just can't see calling the police everytime a raccoon gets on my deck and knocks over the grill, or whenever the neighbors cats are "doing the wild thing" under my porch, or whenever a falling tree-limb hits the house, etc...
Good call!

Quote:
Surely you guys don't really call the police everytime you hear an odd noise?
Nope!

Quote:
You don't check it out yourselves before dialing 911?
Let's be clear on this. If the noise does not recur, and there is no indication that someone is breaking into or has broken into the house, I do nothing. If I heard a strange, non-recurring sound outside I would ignore it. If it sounds like the line to the dishwasher has broken, I "check it out" and take appropriate action to prevent water damage. But if there is indication of a break-in, I do not put myself at risk by looking for the agressor. And I sure as heck don't arm myself and go outside, under any circumstances.

From what I've seen on Personal Defense TV, from what I've read, and from what I was taught in my CCW class, it is evident that the preponderance of the expert advice is to call the police and let the threat come to you, unless it is necessary to first get family members in other rooms to a place of safety.
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Old October 30, 2008, 10:53 AM   #11
David Armstrong
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You don't check it out yourselves before dialing 911?
If you think you need a gun in your hand when you check it out, you probably should call 911. As Oldmarksman points out, there are noises and then there are NOISES.
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Old October 30, 2008, 11:13 AM   #12
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If you think you need a gun in your hand when you check it out, you probably should call 911. As Oldmarksman points out, there are noises and then there are NOISES.
No, I always carry my handgun when checking out those odd noises....it might be a coon on the deck, or it might be an aggressive rabid coon on the deck....you never know.

One time, I woke at about 2:00am to the barking of a dog in my backyard, which then got my dog to barking.
I had never seen this dog around the neighborhood and it didn't look very aggressive, just barking at the horses in the pasture next to my yard.
So I went out on the deck and told the dog to "git!", but the dog ignored me and continued barking at the horses, and now at me too.
I went back inside to look for something to throw at the dog....I found a C-battery and went back out on the deck and threw it at the dog.
And I missed.
And the dog was still barking.
And my dog was still barking.
So finally I drew my pistol and fired a couple of rounds off into the ground between the deck and the dog.
That did the trick!
The dog took off and ran out into the woods....I never saw the dog again.
Anyway, I'm glad I didn't call the cops and waste their time just because a dog was barking in my backyard.
But I'm also glad I had the pistol in case the dog got aggressive and tried to come up on the deck.
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Old October 30, 2008, 11:33 AM   #13
Glenn E. Meyer
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So when I hear two round go off in my neighborhood, I call the police and tell them there were shots fired next door. Watch the blue lights arrive!

The dogs bark all the time as there are racoons, coyotes (next door daschund tangled with one), armadillos, skunks (that was a great joy when the next door dog tangle with one) and deer.

The neighbor's dog dug under the fence and was running around our yard. It would have been exciting if I shot in front of him. I took out a pepper spray (always carry a Glock, BTW) but yelling at him made him go away and then we fixed the fence.

At night, we have motion lights, if they go off, we can look outside and see. If the noise was serious (as stated before), call the law.
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Old October 30, 2008, 11:36 AM   #14
David Armstrong
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No, I always carry my handgun when checking out those odd noises....it might be a coon on the deck, or it might be an aggressive rabid coon on the deck....you never know.
And you think it a good idea to confront an aggressive rabid coon on your deck with your handgun? I'd suggest a .22 rifle from a distance.
Quote:
So finally I drew my pistol and fired a couple of rounds off into the ground between the deck and the dog.
That did the trick!
Not real sure what that has to do with looking for the source of an unknown noise with your handgun....
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Old October 30, 2008, 11:37 AM   #15
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"I totally agree with Crisp0410. I believe 911 had been called. Let the Police handle it. Different story if my life is in danger IN my home."
And I agree with both of you. It's only happened a couple of times, but I've called the cops (I have them on speed-dial on my cell phone), and let the pros check it out first.

Having said that, if someone breaks into my "castle doctrine" house, it's shoot first, ask questions later. I keep a loaded revolver in my pocket in the house at all times.
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Old October 30, 2008, 11:41 AM   #16
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From easyG:
Quote:
So finally I drew my pistol and fired a couple of rounds off into the ground between the deck and the dog.
Had I done that I where I live, I would have been guilty of committing a gun crime.

Quote:
The dog took off and ran out into the woods
That may explain your situation. If you are in a rural county where it is not illegal to fire a gun, you may be OK. Better check that!

However, I can see no reason for firing a gun simply because a dog is barking at 2:00 AM.

Nor would the possibility of having a raccoon on my deck cause me concern. They are probably there more often than you think.
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Old October 30, 2008, 11:43 AM   #17
Glenn E. Meyer
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BTW, I have a set of racoon footprints in my patio. They wandered across when the concrete was wet. Kind of a neat stylistic point. A blood soaked racoon carcass in the concrete would have been a tad yucky.
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Old October 30, 2008, 11:46 AM   #18
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It just goes to show
What it goes to show is what several of the more sensible forum members constantly recommend - DO NOT investigate a strange noise or attempt to clear a house. If the noise is strange enough or is repeated, CALL THE COPS and bunker down with your DEFENSE weapons.

The average homeowner, regardless of how well he thinks he's armed or how highly he regards his own ability, is not trained or equipped to deal with one or more burglars, especially after just waking up and in the dark.

Don't jump out of the boat and chase the sharks.
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Old October 30, 2008, 12:16 PM   #19
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DO NOT investigate a strange noise or attempt to clear a house. If the noise is strange enough or is repeated, CALL THE COPS and bunker down with your DEFENSE weapons.
Where have all the men gone?
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Old October 30, 2008, 12:22 PM   #20
Glenn E. Meyer
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To the hospital without an arm?
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Old October 30, 2008, 12:41 PM   #21
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To the hospital without an arm?
+100, Glenn! EasyG...you just don't know.
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Old October 30, 2008, 12:47 PM   #22
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Moderator Note

Some folks seem to have gotten the idea that it's okay to insult someone else on TFL -- to call them cowards or spineless, to impugn their manhood or their manners.

This is not so.

Those who cannot discuss a subject without maligning the folks who disagree with them about it should avoid posting in threads discussing that subject.

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Old October 30, 2008, 05:01 PM   #23
David Armstrong
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To the hospital without an arm?
LOL! You're turning into quite a comedian. That one might even top the "deflated weiner syndrome".
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Old October 30, 2008, 05:09 PM   #24
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Investigating noises. That's my 100lb lab-neufie's job. He does it well. I'm the backup.
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Old October 30, 2008, 06:02 PM   #25
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What I've been taught in the various classes I've taken, and what I teach as an NRA certified instructor, based on the NRA syllabus, is that if you hear a noise --

[1] You investigate as best you can from a place of safety inside the house with your family. You wait and quietly listen. Does the sound repeat? Can you begin to identify it? Can you positively identify it as something innocuous? If the sound is clearly from outside, you may look out nearby windows.

[2] If you can't identify the sound and believe there is a danger, you assure that your family and any known visitors are all together and with you in a place of safety. You arm yourself. You call the police. You maintain telephone contact with the police. And you wait.

[3] You do not go anywhere to investigate, because --
(a) If you go looking, and there is indeed a BG there, you will be at an extreme tactical disadvantage. You can easily be ambushed or flanked. You may also have given a BG access to family members to use as hostages. Or there maybe more than one.
(b) When (whether you called them or they were called by a neighbor who may have also seen or heard something) the police respond, they don't know who you are. You are just someone with a weapon.
And here we have an example of what can happen if you go out to investigate. The BG was outnumbered. The BG brought a knife to a gunfight. The BG was on unfamiliar territory. But the BG also had a significant tactical advantage and won the fight.

Massad Ayoob tells a story about the National Tactical Invitational, an annual competition in which some 130 of the top shooters and firearm trainers participate by invitation only. One of the events is a force-on-force exercise using simunitions in which the competitor must clear a house against a single "BG." According to Mas, during the first seven of these annual events, not a single competitor "survived" the exercise. The tactical advantage of the ensconced adversary is just too great. And remember, these competitors were highly skilled, highly trained fighters.
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