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Old October 28, 2008, 11:10 AM   #1
kwells6
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1926 Mosin Nagant 91/30 info

Ok, I picked up this piece of machinery from a gentleman that wants me to reload rounds for his .25-06.

what im trying to figure out is where it was made.

markings: there are serveral SMALL sickle and hammers, but they are surrounded by a wreath; on the side of the barrel, there is "00" stamped; there is "1926r" and right below that is the serial (5 digit); then below that is what looks like a vertical arrow, but its got fins coming from right behond the arrowhead kinda like this "-[->>"; there is aslo a "П" in a circle. as for the manufacturer markings, "ИЖЕВСКИИ" and below that is "О

Last edited by kwells6; October 28, 2008 at 12:14 PM. Reason: additional info
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Old October 28, 2008, 11:24 AM   #2
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You realize that loading rounds for someone else is illegal. Doesn't matter if he pays you or not. If you load them then stay with him while he shoots them then that's not likely a problem. If you load them and then give them to him, or make any kind of transaction, that's illegal to do without an ammunition manufactures license. It's likely they will never catch you, but they might. With the ATF's ability to interperate it's own regulations and their 95% conviction rate because of that, it's not a bet I would make. Note that if Obama wins then it's likely that the ATF will go back to full fledged head hunting like in the Clinton days.

Then there is liability. Let almost anything gun related happen while he's shooting that ammo and your butt is on the hook.
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Old October 28, 2008, 11:25 AM   #3
kwells6
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the gentleman is my brother...
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Old October 28, 2008, 11:48 AM   #4
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irrelivant. What I would do is teach him to do it then allow him to use your equipment. That is legal.
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Old October 28, 2008, 12:10 PM   #5
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The symbol you describe indicates it was made in the Izhevsk armory.

Go to http://www.7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinID.htm#flat and answer the questions to find further details. Who knows - you might have a relatively rare model.
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Old October 28, 2008, 12:14 PM   #6
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"O
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Old October 28, 2008, 12:16 PM   #7
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ok.

http://www.7.62x54r.net/MosinID/0104_small.jpg
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Old October 28, 2008, 12:43 PM   #8
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ok, so its a weird rifle....

the stock, barrel, rear sight, and receiver all match; but the markings match a rifle with a curved sight (Dragoon rifle). this one has a flat site (M91/30). it also has a hex receiver, the sling slots ARE NOT screwed in, rather pressed

the front site is after market, as well as the bolt, and magazine. pics soon
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Old October 28, 2008, 01:09 PM   #9
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kwells6: Here is a couple of sites that I've used for years when researching either mine or anyone else's Mosin-Nagants. Between the two, you should find out anything you want to about your new prize.

http://7.62x54r.net/

http://www.mosinnagant.net/default.asp

It seems that your milsurp was made in Izhevsk. Markings can get a bit confusing sometimes on early rifles as they may get new markings when/if they were rearsenaled and/or sold/captured/reissued in other countries during their lifetime.

That's what makes M-N's so interesting to me. I read somewhere once that there may be around 250 different variations or more of them. There were millions made in several countries, by several different makers and sold and resold, marked and remarked.


As for the reloaded ammo deal. If you sale or trade reloaded ammunition to anyone, you are required to have a license from the government.($30 a year I think)

On the other hand, I once gave a couple of boxes of lightly loaded revolver loads to a friend. The next day he gave me a couple of boxes of shotgun shells. Not a trade as I didn't know he was going to give the shells to me.

Go ahead and teach your brother how to reload, you'll both have fun.
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Old October 28, 2008, 01:26 PM   #10
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^^ What he said. Dragoon rifles were often upgraded to M91/30 standards, both during and after WWII. Such rifles are known as "ex-Dragoons".

Regarding the sling slot escutcheons, war is notoriously hard on rifle stocks, and they were frequently replaced when the guns were arsenal-refurbished after the war. The Soviets recycled parts in mix-and-match fashion during refurbishment, so it's quite commonplace to find stocks with features that don't match the gun's production date.

Inspect the butt of the stock for cartouche consisting of a 1/2"x1/2" square with two corners connected by a diagonal bar. This denotes a refurbished stock.
Quote:
the front site is after market, as well as the bolt, and magazine.
That's kind of weird... I've seen aftermarket bolts with curved bolt handles, but not aftermarket front sights or magazines. I'd like to see those pictures!
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Old October 28, 2008, 01:32 PM   #11
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by aftermarket, i was referring to that they didnt match the rest of the weapon. sorry for the confusion.
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Old October 28, 2008, 06:23 PM   #12
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ok, so i took the rifle apart. the front sight is not the origional, but a newer sight. looks like it was taken off of a 91/30, but it has the Izhevsk arrow on it. kinda like the ones placed on rifles from '28 to '32. right below the stock line on the barrel by the receiver is stamped "00" and "11" below. there is also 2 overlapping stamps. one is a circled k and the other is a lowercase n. on the bottom of the barrel is stamped "44" and right by it is Ю. there are other random letters stamped all over... idk what the deal is.

the bolt has the same random lettering all over the place.

one good thing, ALL PARTS ARE from the same factory.

anyone know the possible value of this if any?
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Old October 28, 2008, 07:06 PM   #13
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Quote:
You realize that loading rounds for someone else is illegal.
Please cite your authority for this.
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Old October 28, 2008, 07:25 PM   #14
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... indeed

Last edited by kwells6; October 28, 2008 at 07:26 PM. Reason: info
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Old October 28, 2008, 10:19 PM   #15
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Quote:
Please cite your authority for this.
Regulation 478.41(a)
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Old October 28, 2008, 11:19 PM   #16
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Quote:
You realize that loading rounds for someone else is illegal.
Quote:
Please cite your authority for this.
Quote:
Regulation 478.41(a)

Its only illegal if your reloading ammunition and selling or distributing it to make a profit.

Reloading a box or two of ammo for your buddy is not illegal even if you do it on a regular basis...e.g. every month you reload a couple of boxes of ammo for your friend or relative.
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Old October 28, 2008, 11:22 PM   #17
kwells6
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he brings me the brass and i reload it for cost
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Old October 29, 2008, 10:24 AM   #18
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The AFT interperates it's regulations to say if a semi auto malfunctions and fires multible shots then it's a full auto. That's the point, they interperate their own regs, I wouldn't chance it.
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Old October 29, 2008, 04:41 PM   #19
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OK, I see what you're talking about. Personally, I would not take any money at all, even just for costs.
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Old October 29, 2008, 04:42 PM   #20
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not to rain on anyone's party, but isnt this thread about a rifle? rather than reloading?
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Old October 30, 2008, 07:02 AM   #21
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They all end up being about reloading...
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Old October 30, 2008, 07:32 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwells6
anyone know the possible value of this if any?
The multiple stamps are because the rifle was probably re-arsenalled a blue jillion times between 1926 and the time it finally left the USSR/Russia. Every time some change was made, somebody had to whack a die with a hammer to prove it.

Does it have import markings? If so, it's just another hex-receiver dragoon converted to a 91/30; figure somewhere in the hundred to hundred-and-a-half range. If it doesn't have any import marks, you can add a few bucks as a pre-'68 import/GI bring-back.
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Old October 30, 2008, 08:18 AM   #23
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Quote:
Does it have import markings? If so, it's just another hex-receiver dragoon converted to a 91/30; figure somewhere in the hundred to hundred-and-a-half range. If it doesn't have any import marks, you can add a few bucks as a pre-'68 import/GI bring-back.
You can also add a few bucks if it has a laminated stock. They're somewhat uncommon on hex-receiver 91/30s.
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Old October 31, 2008, 08:17 AM   #24
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no, there are no import markings.

and sadly, no... it does not have the laminate stock. its birch, i believe
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Old October 31, 2008, 08:49 AM   #25
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No import marks? Is there an "SA" in a square on the barrel or receiver?
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