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Old October 21, 2008, 07:55 AM   #1
boxjeff
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Duracoat gun refinishing

Anyone ever use Duracoat gun refinishing? What is the finish like and does it wear well?
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Old October 21, 2008, 01:27 PM   #2
Scorch
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I have redone a number of guns with DuraCoat. It wears well and looks very nice. No problems so far.
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Old October 22, 2008, 12:43 AM   #3
2ndchance
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I've done it 3 times. The first couple of times, it seemed to flake off or wear off rather quickly. I may have not prepped the surface well enough.

The last time I used it, I actually baked it in a gun oven for 4 hours to cure it. This method yielded the best result for me. The finish was 5 layers and it's ROCK hard, yet flexible.

I'm going to try to do it again on a couple of slides. This time I will double-prep it and try it without the oven (as it was intended).
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Old October 22, 2008, 01:43 AM   #4
Prince55
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Boxjeff---Good Subject to bring up.
I'm thinking about trying it on an aluminum Ruger frame that some idiot
buffed off the anodized finish.
I thought it had to be baked on.

Thanks
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Old October 22, 2008, 05:46 PM   #5
Scorch
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Quote:
I thought it had to be baked on.
In order to provide good wear resistance, GunKote needs to be applied to chemically clean metal (they recommend abrasive blasting) with a surface temperature of 100 degrees, then baked on at 300 degrees for 1 hour. Cool, then your gun is ready for reassembly.

GunKote contains molybdenum disulfide (as a lubricant), suspended in an epoxy powder base with a solvent as the carrier. When you spray it on, it looks like paint but has only moderate adhesion to the metal. When you heat it, it melts the little beads of epoxy onto the metal, allowing it to bond strongly. I have removed GunKote from guns in the past, and if it was applied properly it has to be sandblasted off.
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Old October 28, 2008, 05:12 PM   #6
WadePatton
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I'm looking for a good coating for a few of my projects as well.

Note that Duracoat and GunKote are two different things. What I've learned so far is that Duracoat requires spray equipment and baking isn't necessary-but that it's too thick for tight tolerances. GunKote is available in spray cans or liquid and requires pre-heating the part and a 300f baking. GK is also indicated for moving internals.

But I'm just learning about this stuff. And would be glad to hear more from folks with experience with either or both.

And Howdy from TN-this is my first post. I'll be back later, daylight is a burning right now-I'm going to go check on borrowing some spray equipment.

Been shooting/loading/hunting for over 25 years. Maybe I can add a thing here or there. Always more to learn, another gun to try, another load to test, another varmint eating my acorns...

WP
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Old October 28, 2008, 07:09 PM   #7
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Welcome, Wade.

I read the information on these products some years ago, and for convenience's sake wound up going with Brownells' epoxy-phenolic based Teflon-moly finish. For all I know it may be compounded by KG on an OEM basis. KG makes a Teflon finish as well as the Gun Kote moly finish. The convenience element was that Brownells' colors include ones that match their Parkerizing finishes. Since I was Parkerizing an M1 Garand with their manganese phosphate solution, I wanted to to spray the stainless gas cylinder with a matching color finish. That worked out very well.

I surmise that the thermosetting epoxy-based finishes have the pre-heat step in common, though Brownells is less specific, asking only that the part to be sprayed be "warm to the touch". I know from having been involved in a government project which had some painting problems, that primers and other paint materials frequently require very specific curing temperatures and times. However, I'm guessing that in the case of the thermosetting epoxy finishes that the preheat is partly to evaporate the carrier fast enough to make dripping less likely, and also to prevent the rapid evaporation from chilling the metal and introducing moisture condensate into the project.
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Last edited by Unclenick; October 28, 2008 at 08:04 PM.
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Old October 28, 2008, 07:53 PM   #8
Harry Bonar
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coating

Sirs;
I've used the Brownells Teflon moly coat too and it's done a great job
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Old October 29, 2008, 12:45 PM   #9
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I looked at duracoat a few years back as an alternative offering, alongside our Tuff-Gun finishes. I researched for any test results, like chemical submergence results or Mil-Spec ratings, etc. There were none.

Many "Gun People" use their firearms in less-than-freindly environmental conditions and many of them ask us: "Will your finish protect my firearm from this or that"? I've been asked stuff like if our finish would be damaged by the de-icers in aviation fuel! (By an Alaskan bush pilot & the answer is NO!) "How about Muriatic acid vapors"? (By a pool guy and the answer is NO!)

I contacted the distributor for duracoat with my questions and was told: "Just try it. You'll love it". After several minutes, I realized that he was unable to answer my questions because there are no test results pertaining to duracoat as used on firearms.

I need to able to answer questions about the finish that I am applying to the firearm. I can't tell the Customer to just try it and you'll love it or it worked real good on Billy Bob's pistola.

Duracoat has it's place...like on long gun stocks where curing heat is not tolerated. But, I already have a finish for that. I've never used duracoat so I can't attest to it's real life capabilities. However, based solely on the lack of real information about it, I probabaly won't ever use it.

I use Gunkote for our finish. I use a LOT of Gunkote and have for about thirty years. I've used it on firearms, model boat engines, my sports car engine, Superbike class race engines, etc. I know what it can do and if I don't know, their web site has all of the test results so I can find out. No, I don't own stock in the company. I just don't like duracoat! Their advertising is like obama's campaign: No substance but just try it. You'll love it.
Keep yer powder dry, Mac.
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Old October 29, 2008, 02:44 PM   #10
.22lr
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as for testing.

I wouldn't expect a phone rep to have the test specs sitting right in front of them. Nor would I expect them to know the data off the top of their head. They are hired as phone / sales people.

As for any competing product that claims that Dura/gunkote is inferior because of a lack of testing, feel free to post the test results of your product and be sure to mention the acredited lab that performed the tests.

I have used neither product, but I find dismising a product due to its inferior testing (which has not been shown), based on a single phone conversation, silly. Espically when the competing product just claims that the testing has been done. If so, just post a link to the report, I understand that if it has been done properly, the report should be quite lengthly, but the wonders of the internet make such miracles of information possible.

Technically, the supposed lack of testing could be hiding the fact that the Dura/Gunkote products to be superior
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Old October 29, 2008, 08:40 PM   #11
2ndchance
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I haven't used any other product other than Duracoat. I've used it 3 times. Each time I get better at it. The thing to keep in mind is no matter which product you choose, the "prep" is the key. If you don't prep it well, it won't adhere to the gun.

My 3rd attempt was pretty darn nice. I applied 5 layers and let it sit for 10 days. The coating is almost scratch proof.

I attended a SAR show in Phoenix, AZ a couple of years back. I met with a lot of the duracoat people and have seen and touched their finished on a variety of guns. They were not new guns, but very used guns. They seem to hold up well. They did recommend that once the gun is fully coated, you should apply the clear finish to add more protection. I agree with this.

On another note: Two of the guys were wearing a camo shirt. The shirt was a white shirt but was painted into a camo pattern using the duracoat product. The idea was to show how durable it was and how flexible it was, too. Not sure if this is any real test... probably not, but they did a great job doing the ACU pattern on the shirts.
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Old October 30, 2008, 12:15 AM   #12
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I know KG claims the off-black Gun-Kote 2300 product was certified for Seal Team guns. A 500 hour salt spray test was passed. I've also recently seen that one of the ceramic coating products, Ceracoat, I think, had passed a 1000 hour salt spray test. I believe it was compared with Gun-kote and Durakote in the same test and outperformed them, but being a thicker coating, it isn't really an entirely fair comparison. Interestingly, the ceramic coating is harder rather than softer, but supposidly resists abrasion best of the three.
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Old October 30, 2008, 12:58 AM   #13
Mac's!
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.22lr..."I wouldn't expect a phone rep to have the test specs sitting right in front of them"
.I would expect a phone rep to have the information available to him/her but he didn't because there is no testing info for duracoat available.

.22lr...."I find dismising a product due to its inferior testing (which has not been shown), based on a single phone conversation, silly"
In my post, I stated that I did research it. My decision to not use duracoat was not based on a single phone conversation but was due to the lack of results from some fairly detailed research. What my research did turn up, were consistant rumors and allegations that duracoat was never designed for firearms as their advertising states. It was designed for farm machinery by Sherwin Williams and is called Polane. Now that doesn't mean it's a bad finish but it sure does explain two things. Why there's no tests of it on firearms and why it can't be used on firearm internals. It's too thick.

22lr...."Espically when the competing product just claims that the testing has been done"
The testing program for Gunkote was conducted in two stages. The first was a submergence test in assorted chemicals. This was conducted for Armscor in South Africa by the South African Naval Logistics Department. Test results are at the end of my post. The second part of the process was real life. This was conducted by the South African Navy and the US Navy Seal Teams. The end result is that Gunkote is now required by the miltaries of several countries on certain weapons systems. Note: The test results below show how long the Gunkote'd material was in the chemical before any notable deterioration occured.

22lr..."feel free to post the test results of your product"
Gunkote is not my product. (I wish it was!) I use Gunkote as the second and third coats in our Tuff-Gun finish. Our Tuff-Gun finish is not a finish. It's a process that I have developed in thirty plus years of experience with Gunkote. Even our trade name "Tuff-Gun" refer's to the process.

22lr...."the supposed lack of testing could be hiding the fact that the Dura/Gunkote products to be superior"
HUH?

Keep yer powder dry, Mac.
Tuff-Gun Finishes. The Name Says It All.
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Test results for Gunkote
STANDARD HYDROCARBON TEST FLUID 24 HOURS
AVIATION GASOLINE 24 HOURS
HYDRAULIC FLUID (PETROLEUM BASED) 24 HOURS
JEP FUEL (JP-4) 24 HOURS
LUBRICATION OIL 24 HOURS
HYDRAULIC FLUID (SYNTHETIC) 24 HOURS
PAINT REMOVER (EPOXY SYSTEM) 24 HOURS
TRICHLORETHYLENE 24 HOURS
DOW CORNING DC-150 24 HOURS
NITRIC ACID 24 HOURS
HYDROCHLORIC ACID 24 HOURS
HYDROGEN PEROXIDE 24 HOURS
AMMONIA HYDROXIDE 48 HOURS
SODIUM HYDROXIDE 1 HOUR
SULFURIC ACID 3% 1 HOUR
SULFURIC ACID 30 % 1 HOUR
SODIUM BISULPHIDE 30 DAYS
212 DEGREES (F) ALAKALINE CLEANER 2 HOURS
SALT FOG SPRAY 1000 HOURS (42 DAYS)
WATER IMMERSION 37 DEGREES C. 1000 HOURS (42 DAYS)
SEA WATER IMMERSION 1440 HOURS (60 DAYS)
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Old October 30, 2008, 05:48 AM   #14
jorjohn11
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I used duracoat on a 308 enfield and was suprised with the results. The piece looks much better than I had anticipated. I wouldn't hesitate to use it again.
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Old November 3, 2008, 06:04 PM   #15
Zsnark
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Feed Ramp on Alloy Pistol

Hi there Gunners,

Have a personal favorite pistol on which I performed a non-professional ramp job. The piece is a Star BKM 9MM and I read Nonte's book on how to do this about 25 years ago. The Star would not reliably feed hollow points and I was going to cure that perceived failing! So, after meticulously ramping and throating my Star, I tested it.

After a couple of magazines that performed flawlessly, I found that HPs dug a little notch in the alloy ramp and stopped! I believe that in ramping it I removed the anodized surface which hardened the ramp. So, I shoot hardball or some round which sports a plastic nosecone (Glaser Safety, etc.) with which it is reliable as hell.

Question is will any of these coatings mentioned make my feed ramp harder and/or more slippery so I can use HPs in it. I also wonder if the heat treatments mentioned will disturb the metallurgy and or finish of the frame.

Any feedback and/or advice would be appreciated. I really don't want to get the sucker hard chromed or anything pricey like that. I have a CZ75C which is almost as concealable as this Star if I ever have to pack. It's sort of a quarter century long back burner project for me.

AAW
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Old November 3, 2008, 10:44 PM   #16
Mac's!
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I don't know of any coating that would help you there. Hard Chrome plating is all I can think of that would fix it. It sounds like the rounds feed in at to steep of an angle. Have you tried trimming the lips on the mag back a small amount? That would allow the front of the bullet to ride up more, allowing a shallower angle when it hits the ramp. Besides Hard Chrome, a feed ramp insert would work too.

Our Tuff-Gun finish uses heat throughout the process...application and curing. However, the heat is never high enough to affect the temper or metallurgy of the metal. This is another area where a microprocessor controlled industrial curing oven beats the kitchen oven. When I say *** degrees, it stays within a degree of where I set it for exactly how long I want it to stay there. Keep yer powder dry, Mac.
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