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Old October 22, 2008, 07:49 PM   #76
johnsonrlp
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Suppressors would become a lot more popular. How else are you going to shoot your new full-auto without getting caught?

From a military perspective, I've sworn that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.. And that is exactly what I, my family, my friends, and many of my co-workers intend to do.
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Old October 22, 2008, 07:50 PM   #77
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Guns, what guns?
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Old October 22, 2008, 09:16 PM   #78
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Don't be complacent

For all of the "it will never happen here", just about everthing that has happened in the rest of the world (with the exception of Nazi death camps) has happened here in the USA, at one time or another, the main difference is a question of scale, and overall efectivness.

Can't ban guns in the US? Then just what was the Heller case about? The city of Washington DC effectively banned guns for over 30 years, and even with the recent SCOTUS decision, they aren't readily available in DC yet.

NYC has had the Sullivan Laws since the early part of the 20th century, severly restricting legal gun ownership in the city, amounting to a virtual ban unles you were one of the approved few.

At times in the past we have had genocide campaigns, concentration camps, and US troops attacking US citizens in our nation's capitol. Do just a little historical research and you will find that we are not angels. Do not count on all our good protectors in uniform refusing to follow orders, even Constitutionally illegal ones. While there will be many who would refuse, there are also many who would comply without a second thought.

One thing I didn't see mentioned in previous posts, is the fact that there are quite a few small machine shops in the country, and more than a few people who know how to use them. Even if they could manage to round up all the currently legal guns in private hands, the capability to make replacements exists all over the country, and there will be people willing to do the work for the money that will be offered by "criminals". Mechanically, the simplest repeating firearm to make is a blowback submachinegun. One unintended consequence of banning all guns could be to increase the number of SMGs in illegal circulation. After all, if you are going to go to jail for having any gun, you might as well have the most effective gun you can get your hands on. And since with guns banned there will be no sport hunting with guns, there will be no practical use for long range rifles. Military assault rifles (homemade, smuggled in, or stolen from the military and police) will be available to those with a desire and the funds, just as any illegal substance is available on the black market today. And the same goes for sawed off shotuns, SMGs, and simple handguns. Short range, handy, concealable weapons for offense and defense in urban environments will be obtainable by anyone willing to be a "criminal" under the law. Ammo will always be available in small amounts, at high cost, home made, or stolen from the govt and police, people willing to pay will be able to get it.

Many people will go to jail, just as many drug users and dealers go to jail today, but as the war on drugs has proven, putting some people in jail doesn't solve the problem. AS long as there is a demand, legal or not, someone will fill that demand for a profit.

We might even see a return to blackpowder guns (possibly of more modern designs) as these kinds of firearms and ammunition can be made entirely from scratch by industrious individuals. maybe even swords and bows will become common personal defense items for the law abiding, as there were hundreds of years ago. I wouldn't put much money on it, but it might happen. Even if it did, a homeowner trying to defend himself with a sword, a baseball bat, or some other "non firearm" is going to be at a serious disadvantage against a street gang member armed with an autoshop made SMG or a stolen police gun, etc.

I guess if all the guns were banned, we would all turn ours in, and if something bad happened, we would just call 911 and hope for the best.

Right?
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Old October 22, 2008, 10:44 PM   #79
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It is death by a thousand cuts.
Yep, and that's what Elmer Fudd gets for being complacent.

Though I am mostly a muzzleloader and SA revolver guy, I commend the EBR crowd for at least understanding the importance of sticking together. From what I read on these forums, the EBR guys "get it".

To #75, your point #3 is right on the money.

The great power that has been entrusted to the media is being misused to sway elections, and even more so to turn public opinion against guns. They are so blatant about it, it's almost funny. TV show and movie characters routinely drop lines that sound like they came straight from the Brady Campaign.

The other big mistake gunnies have made was to buy into a debate where the allowed topics were narrowed so the truth would always be outside those confines.

If someone set out to steal your bicycle, and they set the debate limits so you can't talk about stealing or bicycles, chances are you're going to lose your bicycle.

And you won't see that coming.
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Old October 23, 2008, 07:51 AM   #80
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And since with guns banned there will be no sport hunting with guns, there will be no practical use for long range rifles.
I disagree; a high powered rifle with a autoshop made suppressor would make an excellent assasination tool. (I am not advocating this). Organized crime will flourish and will be smuggling guns and drugs like the US has never seen. Look at a Mexico!

ETA: dont wanna be on a flier.

Last edited by JustAnotherPlinker; October 23, 2008 at 12:20 PM.
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Old October 23, 2008, 10:28 AM   #81
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A full out 'firearms ban' is not likely to occur without SERIOUS revolt and they know this. Sure the sheeple will walk straight to a gas chamber if asked to, but I'm talking about 'we the people' that have a brain.

As stated before ... such a result happens slowly. It has been happening slowly, but surely.

The first thing that happened was the registration of what is now called "class 3 weapons" and that was not long ago. Keep in mind that this has NOTHING to do with our personal safety … it’s about tightening control.

Then the ‘waiting period’ came into play. This ONLY makes us desensitized to the upcoming gun laws.

Then the prohibition of specific characteristics of firearms. Calling them assault weapons for instance. They tell us what we CAN’T have with the weapon; vertical forend grip, type of stock, high capacity mags, etc… Anyone feel safer or just more ‘controlled’?

Pretty soon ALL STATES will eventually adopt some kind of law that says something like this “all firearms given, constructed, sold or transfers must be conducted through a Federal License holder”. No private sale, gift, or private assembly will be permitted. This will make absolute record (call it registration) of each and every firearm that exists eventually. It will be claimed to make us ‘safer’ but will ONLY tighten their control and create a mandatory registration so to speak without actually creating a ‘specific registration law’.

More laws will be passed which will force the Federal License holders to confiscate and report weapons that are not within the letter of the MANY laws/specifications. And you know they will confiscate/report it ... as does today, their livelyhood depends on it (not to mention prison time, fines, and loss of their Federal License).

See how this works over time? People have been just plain STUPID to allow our government to put their foot in the door with this BS. It ALWAYS starts out small like seat belts, then it progresses to being allowed to be pulled over for a seat belt check, then this allows everyone to be more likely to be ‘asked‘ to be searched. Such crap only promotes search & seizure when WE do not know our rights. Slowly progressing to loss of our rights for sake of security.

Some day you will hear a news broadcast stating “America is now under martial law, your constitutional rights have now been suspended, the comforts and security you have demanded are now mandatory”.
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Old October 23, 2008, 11:09 AM   #82
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#80, the first sentence of your second paragraph is the kind of thing antigun nutjobs like to lift out of context and use in their flyers.

I know you meant it in the context of organized crime and various thuggery, just sayin'.
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Old October 23, 2008, 12:19 PM   #83
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I honestly believe politicians fear scoped rifles and concealable pistols more than EBRs. I'm surprised there hasn't been more effort to ban concealable pistols.
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Old October 23, 2008, 02:52 PM   #84
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You would have some of the atmosphere that Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia had, with people quick to denounce each other either to show their
loyalty or save their hides. Though I recall one city-D.C.?-set up a hot line to report illegal guns, they were swamped with malicious and prank calls, a favorite technique was to denounce cops, politicians, ex boy friends, etc.
Again, I am more worried about creeping incrementalism. Or consider this-
a liberal moneybags buys up the gun companies and halts production.
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Old October 23, 2008, 03:00 PM   #85
NineInchNails
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Quote:
You would have some of the atmosphere that Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia had, with people quick to denounce each other either to show their
loyalty or save their hides. Though I recall one city-D.C.?-set up a hot line to report illegal guns, they were swamped with malicious and prank calls, a favorite technique was to denounce cops, politicians, ex boy friends, etc.
Again, I am more worried about creeping incrementalism. Or consider this-
a liberal moneybags buys up the gun companies and halts production.
Which post are you referring to
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Old October 23, 2008, 03:34 PM   #86
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Which post are you referring to
I think he's referring to what would occur during such a ban. Many people will turn others in to gain some kind of advantage (such as a monetary reward). That's historically what has happened in oppressive societies, and occurs here with regard to fraud against the gov't (turn someone in and you get a cut).
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Old October 23, 2008, 03:44 PM   #87
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Any idiot with a drill, a chunk of metal, and a few rubber bands can make a one shot zip gun over a weekend.

any half decent machinist can produce a sten in an afternoon with bike parts. Another afternoon for a suppressor.

not safe or accurate, but it will work.

Like someone stated about drug dealers, making it illegal and throwing a few in jail won't slow criminals down. Think how much a $50 AK bought in sub-saharan Africa would be worth once it was walked across the US-Mexico border? I believe a total ban would limit the number of semi-autos and repeaters, but significantly increase the number of full auto rifles in the US b/c it would create a demand for the network to be created. Once it is in place it will grow larger and larger.
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Old October 23, 2008, 03:51 PM   #88
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Antipitas, I disagree with your opinion just a little bit.
Just because guns/ammunition would be outlawed, that would be solely for civilian possession. Military and police would probably pay what they have always paid for ammunition.

During the 94 AWB, military and police did not pay any more for standard capacity magazines, did they? Of course not, they continued to pay the normal prices. Do military and law enforcement pay outrageous amounts for full auto weapons? Of course not.
Why would their costs for ammunition be any different? Granted, ammunition companies would likely have a tough time, some probably going bankrupt or would have to move to producing other products to compensate.

The government never comes up with ways to make them pay more for anything. They find ways to make us pay more.

To answer the OP's question, well I would have to say that those who express outloud what they will do may find it more difficult to follow through than those who never express their answer to such questions. Watch out for the quiet ones.
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Old October 23, 2008, 04:07 PM   #89
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An error noted - - -

Posted in entry #70, this thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogertc1
You can bring up political parties here:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=315610
That thread has been closed as off topic for the NFA forum. I allowed it to run for too long before I noticed it. Mea culpa.

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Old October 24, 2008, 12:55 PM   #90
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Read the Declaration of Independence. It tells you what to do if a government takes away your right to self defense (a human right). In the course of human events . . .
The guys at the bridge near Concord knew what to do in that instance.
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Old October 24, 2008, 01:06 PM   #91
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I know of a few organizations that have petitioned the Government for a redress of grievances and 100% of the time ... the government REFUSES to hear it.

Can you believe that? Our government is actually saying 'We The People do not matter and will not be heard'.

These petitions for a redress of grievances that were filed were for VERY serious matters such as the Federal Reserve and Federal Income Tax.

Rightfully and legally petitioning the government for a redress of grievances is our ONLY recourse with regard to the direction of our country.

Regardless who you vote for ... you're not voting for the true issues that matter because neither will admit that these true issues even exist.
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Old October 24, 2008, 01:41 PM   #92
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1st post. Troll?
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Old October 24, 2008, 01:56 PM   #93
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1st post. Troll?
Maybe. Or maybe a gunowner waking up to a real possibility.
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Old October 24, 2008, 03:33 PM   #94
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Highly unlikely in my opinion, but playing the "what if's".
Millions of us are ordered to give up our arms, and as a result the same millions stop paying their taxes. Would that get their attention? Are they going to fund prisons to stick all of us no taxpayers away in, while the Gov is Bankrupt without the tax income.
This is crazy, as I say it won't happen. Some lead would fly if it did.
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Old October 24, 2008, 03:38 PM   #95
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My humble and honest opinion? Seriously?
It will be the coming days of the Anti-Christ. The begining of the end.
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Old October 24, 2008, 03:46 PM   #96
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Horseman

The way the world is headed, I (personal opinion) don't think its far away in the realm of time anyway. As Forest Gump said " that's all I've got to say about that", otherwise the Mods would kick me off TFL for good, EXILED!
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Old October 24, 2008, 05:40 PM   #97
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Firearms are banned to felons. They find all they want.
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Old October 24, 2008, 07:22 PM   #98
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I lost mine in a boating accident......................
I lost my boat with them
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Old October 24, 2008, 07:34 PM   #99
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3, It seems to me that the anti gun lobby is trying to make guns socially unacceptable. One way they do this by using peoples fears of guns. People often fear what they don't understand. If you were to teach responsible gun etiquette in primary schools, this would reduce the ignorance and therefore a lot of the related fear. Respect and courtesy would probably also need to be taught.
guns in primary schools have you gone mad

on a serious note, the only thing taught in primary schools is they are bad, don't touch and tell an adult (or something like that)

however I do see a silver lining on the cloud, with all these kids I see playing airsoft, I see future firearm owners.
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Old October 25, 2008, 01:04 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by JustAnotherPlinker
Any idea what blackmarket ammo costs to feed those glocks and SGs? Just curious is all...
Well, I have heard that up here in Canada the criminals pay something like $10.00 a round.

My concern is less that "they" take away your guns, than what "they" will do when the ability to say "no" is removed.

Remember, the 2nd Amendment is there to ensure all the others stay put.
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