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Old October 21, 2008, 05:15 PM   #26
musher
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I'm thinking about this claim that bump firing can lead to out of battery firing and I'm having trouble seeing the mechanism that leads to that outcome.

In order complete a successful bump fire cycle, you need to allow the trigger to reset, then trip it again utilizing the momentum generated by recoil to move the firearm away from your finger (rather than vice versa), resetting the trigger, then using the constant counterpressure on the forearm to move the firearm towards your finger, tripping the trigger.

Assuming your firearm is functioning correctly, this should produce 1 of two results. The rifle goes into battery and tripping the trigger produces another cycle OR you rush the cyclic rate of the firearm and end up pulling the trigger too soon which gives you the same result as standard semi-auto fire--no second shot.

If you can pull the trigger and have the firearm fire out of battery, you run the risk of this happening anytime a round doesn't chamber fully. This is a defect, not a feature.
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Old October 21, 2008, 06:33 PM   #27
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With AK's I know that there is a projection on the back of the bolt that prevents the hammer from striking the firing pin unless the bolt has closed. I would hope that most firearms have something to prevent firing out of battery.


It's not like I am risking my life by doing this... And it is fun, other wise knob creek would not have as big a turn out as it does. And machine guns would not cost 10,000+

So provided I keep my rounds on target and under control there should be no issues.
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Old October 21, 2008, 08:16 PM   #28
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Take a look at this bump firing, it looks like he has it shouldered and it looks like all his shots are within a pie plate or so. That's pretty darn good:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVfwF...eature=related

I've seen people bump fire from the shoulder just like this video but without a rubber band, and their stance and rifle seem very stable. I'm not sure why people are condeming bump firing and then in the same paragraph approve a full auto class 3 weapon. Either one will draw the same amount of attention. I suggest getting a class 3 suppressor (silencer) before bump firing to keep the attention down. If you practiced enough and were really good you could keep your bump firing to three round bursts.

I agree that a round can't go off out of battery unless you have a defective rifle / firing pin.

Anyone who says there is no use for full auto fire hasn't been in combat with 10 guerrillas charging you at the same time (or 10 terrorists with swords).



As far as a waste of ammo, if you cast your own bullets and reload you could probably reload 1000 rounds for around fifty bucks.
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Old October 22, 2008, 08:28 AM   #29
Stagger Lee
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While you may think you're not risking your life, you're a danger to others around you with that sort of unsafe gun-handling. And if you doubt that, feel free to show up at any gun safety class or professional shooting school and start doing that kids stuff on their ranges. See how long that lasts.

What part of "responsibility and safety" do a few people here not understand?

Quote:
Anyone who says there is no use for full auto fire hasn't been in combat with 10 guerrillas charging you at the same time (or 10 terrorists with swords).
I got money says you've never been there either. But that's not the point. Even if you were actually in the military and not just banging away on the woods, "bump-firing" isn't tactical or even real full-auto...it's just horseplay of the sort that would have you thrown off of any supervised range in the country...including ranges that allow real machine guns.
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Old October 22, 2008, 09:56 AM   #30
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Huh..

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What part of "responsibility and safety" do a few people here not understand?
I own my land/range, so wont be getting thrown off there any time soon - I wouldn't attempt this at a public range any sooner than I would attempt drawing a loaded gun from my holster - Ranges must have laws and regulations for everyone's safety - These people seem to have control of the weapons and I dont see an issue in the environment they are doing it.
It does not appear unsafe or unresponsible to me!
It looks fun and I am going to try it.

I also shoot from my vehicle for practice, shoot prone, sitting and moving - Try that at your local Range
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Old October 22, 2008, 10:19 AM   #31
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Quote:
Take a look at this bump firing, it looks like he has it shouldered and it looks like all his shots are within a pie plate or so. That's pretty darn good:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVfwF...eature=related
It's not "really" shouldered, there is a lot of space in between the butt and his shoulder which you can see in other videos. As to his accuracy, that target is about 10 yards away - I've been to the range where this video was made a whole bunch. He's also doing this with a 9mm AR, not a .223 or an Ak, which would have significantly more recoil than the 9mm.

Bump firing can be fun, certainly - but there are safety risks. If you're firing an actual rifle caliber, it's not too difficult for that rifle to get away from you in recoil, which then becomes dangerous to bystanders. Bumpfiring is usually banned at most public ranges, and for good reason, mostly because it's inherently unsafe.
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Old October 23, 2008, 01:36 AM   #32
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actually i have a video of my neighbor bump firing his ar223 from the shoulder while aiming.at his dads farm.he did'nt do to bad.to expensive for my taste though
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Old October 28, 2008, 05:20 PM   #33
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Now after reading and seeing all this i got to try it with my 10/22, just once for the hell of it.
With the way ammo prices are now i wouldnt waste .223 rounds.
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Old October 29, 2008, 06:06 PM   #34
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StaggerLee,

You're ruining a legitimate discussion about different bump firing techniques. Fine, you don't like it, you find it to be childish and 'gay'. Thats YOUR opinion. But why don't you let the rest of us discuss the pros and cons in a rational matter, rather than resorting to namecalling. We all already know the way you lean on things, and its always in the anti-freedom, pro-government direction. Thats FINE, but why don't you allow the rest of us to address the OP rather than just shooting down the entire thread.

To the OP:

Here's the 'rubber band' guys page. http://www.poormansmachinegun.com/
He seems to have figure out bump firing pretty well--and arguably shouldn't go to jail just because some people don't like rubber bands.

As far as bumping myself, I've had limited success doing it from the shoulder with my AK, the hip is a different story, but hitting anything is pretty much impossible (for me!).

There was a guy that put together something called the Akins accelerator that had some sort of spring in the stock to assist in bumping a 10/22, but I believe the ATF shut him down after giving him initial approval for the product. Without such an aid, I have a hard time seeing how any .22LR could be bumped successfully, but if you figure it out Bones please show us how!
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Old October 30, 2008, 09:30 AM   #35
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The problem with the rubber band is that it's a "device" - and if the ATF ever sees that video, they're going to have some fun questions for Mr. Poor Man's Machine Gun.
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Old October 30, 2008, 10:22 AM   #36
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The ATF knows of the rubber band technique, all it does is add the the trigger tension (like instead of a 3# trigger he has a 6# trigger).

I have a letter from them for a few questions, what the thought seems to be is if the shooter is causing the trigger to be pulled each and every time. The shoe lace and the akins accelerator both are examples of what is NOT allowed because only one action is required to cause multiple shots... If you have to pull the front of the gun to get each shot then it's not a machine gun.
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Old November 1, 2008, 08:14 PM   #37
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Because the ATF is well known for sticking to their word and definitions of "device."
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Old November 2, 2008, 11:53 PM   #38
Csspecs
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Really they said no using a device to bump fire..... Please post a link or the law in whole or part because a lot of people would be better off knowing that if it's a rule. (not saying your not right I just never read that law or ruling)
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Old November 3, 2008, 01:52 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Csspecs
I have a letter from them for a few questions, what the thought seems to be is if the shooter is causing the trigger to be pulled each and every time. The shoe lace and the akins accelerator...
Don't forget that the Akins people had a letter from the BATFEIEIO, too. A letter from them is barely worth the paper it's printed on. Speaking for myself, I've always felt that "When in doubt, don't," is the safest way to avoid getting cross-threaded with that august organization.
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Old November 3, 2008, 05:43 AM   #40
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Quote:
I'm thinking about this claim that bump firing can lead to out of battery firing and I'm having trouble seeing the mechanism that leads to that outcome.
We did some testing with bumpfiring a 9mm Beretta Storm. We found we could fire strings of 10-20 rounds at rates ranging from 900-1200 rounds per minute. Since the Storm isn't a locked breech design, then the possibility exits for ending up with an out of battery detonation. There is no indication that the gun was designed for the parts to work appropriately at that speed...which is higher than most full auto guns are timed to run.

As for the notion that it is a waste of ammo, I have seen enough posts here to believe everyone wastes ammo. So it is just a matter of choosing how you want to do it.

In terms of accuracy (marksmanship control, actually), the poor man's machinegun youtube vid posted above is a bit unusual. I don't believe I have seen the same method being used with an unsilenced gun - the silenced helping moderate the recoil.
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Old November 3, 2008, 09:28 PM   #41
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I think this is the shoestring trick. I believe that this is illegal. By the way, we are all walking around with an illegal machine gun, one on each foot LOLOL.

Shoe String Machine Gun
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Old November 23, 2008, 08:29 PM   #42
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This thread cracks me up.

I've done this "bump fire" but never from the waist. I agree it looks weird. I'm not going to bash those who do unless it's unsafe to others. People drive performance cars too fast and crash them doesn't make every performace car driver a bad person or a bad driver.

Here's me...flame suit on!
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Old November 26, 2008, 07:54 AM   #43
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My biggest problem with bump firing anything is that it's the sure fire quickest way to ruin a barrel. Barrel gets hot fast and expands. Gases flow around the bullet in the throat. Throat erosion happens very quickly, and then the gun is good for absolutely nothing but bump firing. Sheesh! When I was into shooting prairie dogs, I would bring 2 varmint rigs, and switch rifles every 20 rounds or so to prevent that. And these were bolt guns!
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Old November 26, 2008, 10:57 AM   #44
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Bump Firing?????

Remember folks, you cant miss fast enough to win a gun fight.
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Old November 26, 2008, 11:33 AM   #45
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Thats why some of us have bumpfire only guns... Thats about all Wasrs are good for
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Old November 26, 2008, 12:17 PM   #46
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Regular Joe, Sorry but I completely disagree with you. Bump firing a mag or two through a Romanian "G" chrome lined AK barrel originally spec'd for full auto over time for tens of thousands of rounds isn't going to ruin the barrel. But yes it may ruin your precision rifle. Not an AK not a few mags worth.
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Old November 26, 2008, 10:29 PM   #47
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Old November 27, 2008, 06:48 AM   #48
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No-one has to agree with me. No-one shoots my guns but me
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