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Old October 29, 2008, 01:06 AM   #101
FyredUp
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This was a focused discussion until a few individuals found it necessary to call anyone who wasn't willing to kill somone for simply being in their home, or for stealing stuff, a coward or libtard or whatever other childish crap they could spew. One of those individuals has displayed a maturity level below that of my 14 year old son and frankly with his inability to spell a simple word like ludicrous he may not be more than 12 or 13 years old anyways.

I have said repeatedly I don't care what others do. I won't have to appear in court to try and explain shooting someone in the back, or shooting someone who had a fully cocked and locked tv in their hands. They may find my tactics silly, but there will be no doubt if I shoot it was in self defense not cold blooded, calculated, and announced here desire to kill someone.
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Old October 29, 2008, 07:00 AM   #102
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THIS puts it all in perspective!

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?se...cal&id=6476127

Two home invasions involving shooting deaths by the invaders, not just out for a free 25" television set. Dateline: Houston, Texas (Tuesday evening).
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Old October 29, 2008, 07:22 AM   #103
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Quote:
This was a focused discussion until a few individuals found it necessary to call anyone who wasn't willing to kill somone for simply being in their home, or for stealing stuff, a coward or libtard or whatever other childish crap they could spew. One of those individuals has displayed a maturity level below that of my 14 year old son and frankly with his inability to spell a simple word like ludicrous he may not be more than 12 or 13 years old anyways.
For those of you who think home invasion is an exercise in deescalation of force by the homeowner, keep in mind that home invasion these days statistically have a very good chance of ending in injury to the home owner.

Feel free to roll the dice when it come to whether a home invader is there simply to steal property or harm the occupants. But I have read enough home invasion reports to feel that any home invader is likely to cause me or my family bodily harm...and that isnt acceptable to me.

I am not going to roll the dice. So go ahead and call my attitude towards invaders cowardly, call it immature. I call it prudence.
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Old October 29, 2008, 09:41 AM   #104
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I am done responding to either of you two any further. Let's see if you fine examples of the American gun owning public can afford me the same courtesy.

I am not surrendering my viewpoint in the least, but it is pointless to debate with people who refuse to debate on an adult level about ideas and concepts when they have an agenda to push. Hopefully I won't read about either of you 2 being indicted for an undefensible shooting in your homes.

Stay safe.
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Old October 29, 2008, 03:12 PM   #105
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Perhaps I shouldn't be at all surprised by your reaction, especially considering your forum alias, but you really should learn how to not take disagreeing view points so personally. I certainly never attacked your point of view nor did I ever accuse you of being a "coward" or a "libtard" as you so eloquently put it. I simply disagreed on how I would react to a home invasion. I stated what my actions would be if confronted by an home invader and why.

If you plan on spending any time around here on the TFL, or any other politically centered forums for that matter, you would do well to not mistake opposite points of view as personal insults. It would also serve you well to learn early on that participation in forum discussions and debates should be tempered by a certain level of patience and restraint. Anyone who desires to engage in discussions that involve deeply held personal beliefs should always check their emotions at the door and to approach these discussions with well reasoned and rational thoughts so that the discussion can come to a natural and logical conclusion.
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Old October 29, 2008, 04:03 PM   #106
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AMEN about checkin' yer feelins' at the door! I hate to think I hurt any one's feelins' but I rarely buckle to a softer position just to be "nice" or PC... But I loves me a good heated debate! BTW A debate is not an uncontrolled argument. Rather, it is structered competition with rules of engagement and a defined end and victor! Please remember this when entering into any debate. You should be as good at representing the opposite position as you really feel. that is a sign of a great debater.
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Old October 29, 2008, 04:24 PM   #107
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Brent, you and I obviously feel the same way about home invaders. No home owner should ever feel obligated to offer any measure of quarter to a home invader....or even conversate with a home invader from "behind cover" for that matter. It is obvious that Fyredup doesn't know the difference between cover and concealment since the majority of modern homes over nothing in the way of reasonable cover.

Further, to say that violence is the bane of only certain populated areas is to display a willful ignorance of the facts: violence can and does happen everywhere. One simply can google 'deadly home invasion' to see that this crime is more widespread than ever before...and it has become far more violent than even ten years ago. To say that the willingness to keep a loaded weapon nearby is a sign of "time to move" shows a certain depth of arrogance that only further cements my certainty that some will never understand until they are confronted with a situation where their convictions will certainly fail them.

Violence and deadly home invasions occur everywhere: in the most depressed inner-city slums as well as in the most affluent neighborhoods in this country. Those of us that choose to a keep loaded weapon on our person or weapons (plural) within easy reach is NOT a symptom of extreme paranoia but rather an acknowledgment that violence can happen anywhere...to anyone...and at any time. And that we who choose to be armed 24/7 have chosen to be prepared and to not to be the victim.
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Old October 29, 2008, 05:18 PM   #108
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Creature, higdogs,

Neither of you engaged in the name calling that I mention. katrinaguy from the very beginning was beligerant with anybody that disagreed with him, he called me and another poster here cowards because we chose a defensive posture versus attempting to clear the house like we were swat team members. He has continued to fire stupid, childish remarks, even after I said to him I don't care what you do, and asked him to afford me the same courtesy.

I enjoy a good debate, but I will not be slandered by someone who chose to go down what turned into a childish, idiotic, mean spirited road. If you two what to debate the merits of shoot first and ask questions later with me I would be happy to. But I won't be called a coward because I refuse to leave my girlfriend unprotected in the bedroom while I roam around my house looking for intruders.
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Old October 29, 2008, 06:09 PM   #109
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it wasn't Katrina Guy!

Enough already. Attacked two posters labeling one as a "murder" and the other for shooting someone in the back, as per the scanario he himself created, amazing-then attacking Katrina Guy for mispelling, oh no, how shameful of me.
BACK to reality- there is a major difference between an evening prowler and what is so rampant that the media and LE actually have a term for it, a category of crime, "home invasion". Tuesday evening thugs invaded two homes, held occupants hostage, upon leaving the second home the thugs decided to spray the home down apparently, and a sleeping 9 year old inside said home was hit in the head and died. THUSLY, any sane person in America in this day and age must regard any uninvited intruder as a real viable threat.
Regarding all of that other nonsense, hit the back button and go read who's been on who's case for using deadly force, albeit in a texting only situation via this message board. The word "murderer" and the silly situation of what if the BG has his back to you as he exiting with your television set, would you shoot him? I mean like, come on, who comes up with these crazy scanarios???

There is a link posted on this page by me for anyone who wants to read up on the Tuesday evening Houston, TX dual home invasions resulting in a child's death.
Stay armed, stay well-Katrina Guy heading out of town.
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Old October 29, 2008, 06:21 PM   #110
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Katrina Guy: Enough already. Attacked two posters labeling one as a "murder" and the other for shooting someone in the back, as per the scanario he himself created, amazing-then attacking Katrina Guy for mispelling, oh no, how shameful of me.

AND YOU labeled 2 people as cowards and libtards because they chose a defensive posture, from a position of cover, armed behind a locked door and called the police. I asked you on several occasions to leave my decision alone and even after i stopped posting to your assinine crap you kept up the crap aimed at me. I created nothing, he said shoot on sight I asked if that meant in the back if the BG was facing away. What scenario is that? It seems like a straight forward question.

BACK to reality- there is a major difference between an evening prowler and what is so rampant that the media and LE actually have a term for it, a category of crime, "home invasion". Tuesday evening thugs invaded two homes, held occupants hostage, upon leaving the second home the thugs decided to spray the home down apparently, and a sleeping 9 year old inside said home was hit in the head and died. THUSLY, any sane person in America in this day and age must regard any uninvited intruder as a real viable threat.
Regarding all of that other nonsense, hit the back button and go read who's been on who's case for using deadly force, albeit in a texting only situation via this message board. The word "murderer" and the silly situation of what if the BG has his back to you as he exiting with your television set, would you shoot him? I mean like, come on, who comes up with these crazy scanarios???

Again, I asked a simple straight forward question. YOU made it into some wild ass nonsense. To me shooting someone in the back IS murder. I don't give a damn if you have a law called castle defense it doesn't give you the right to shoot people in the back and expect no consequences.

I never once said I wouldn't defend myself or my family. Our main difference is you feel deadly force is viable just because the person is there and has not made an agressive moves towards you. In fact you don't even have to know if he is armed or not. You may be able to somehow justify that in your mind...I can't. You have your opinion I have mine and yours, despite your bluster, is no more right than mine.


There is a link posted on this page by me for anyone who wants to read up on the Tuesday evening Houston, TX dual home invasions resulting in a child's death.
Stay armed, stay well-Katrina Guy heading out of town.
Today 05:18 PM
Leaving town? Who will stand guard 24/7 over your stuff?
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Old October 29, 2008, 06:27 PM   #111
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never labeled anybody

It's you, you you YOU! I could care less how one defends or doesn't defend themselves. You have nothing better to do then mis read and or create questionable situation's to needle a poster (homeowner) as to what he would do to the enth degree??? Ok now what if the BG turns his back to you, then what would you do, shoot him??? and on and on with these crazy situations.
Home defense as relates to employing deadly force is a very fluid situation, my point from the get go, so fluid that depending on many factors would one actually do what they have pre planned, or in this case, pre scripted.

Thank goodness I'm going out of town, the rest of you folks, you sort it all out.
I'll be back over the weekend to get a laugh or two at the outcome.

Later
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Old October 29, 2008, 06:34 PM   #112
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Thank goodness you are leaving town. Perhaps the adults can have a lively discussion without your idiocy.

Have a nice trip.
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Old October 29, 2008, 08:18 PM   #113
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I have my Mossberg 12ga loaded with 6 rounds near my bed, my Ruger GP100 loaded with 158 gr JHP, My Ruger P95 locked and loaded with three extra mags all holding 15 rounds of 115 gr JHP. If someone breaks in at nite, I'll assure you it will take me 30 minutes just to collect all the spent brass. I'll also be saying "say hello to my little friend" as I empty mag after mag at the BG. Just my .02 worth.
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Old October 29, 2008, 10:03 PM   #114
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Ever hear of the doctrine of excessive force?
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Old October 29, 2008, 11:24 PM   #115
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As i have posted before,the choice should be yours alone on how you act in your own home.If someone enters your home while you are there then it is not simply stealing any more.They chose to take their lives in their hands when entered my window or bust down my door.They need to get off what ever they are on and get a job.I'm sorry i feel this way but when they don't care about me and my family then i don't care about them and their family.I made my choice to get a job and be productive,they made the choice to be a dumb #$% break into my home.So on that note i'll defend my home this way,shotgun,.40 cal then snub nose while my wife calls the cops.

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Old October 30, 2008, 01:04 AM   #116
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I agree with you dabigguns...

I just don't think comments by Deet like these are very smart:

If someone breaks in at nite, I'll assure you it will take me 30 minutes just to collect all the spent brass. I'll also be saying "say hello to my little friend" as I empty mag after mag at the BG. Just my .02 worth.

especially when posted on a public board where it may come back to haunt you.
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Old October 30, 2008, 06:49 AM   #117
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Quote:
Ever hear of the doctrine of excessive force?
Not when it is addressing a home invasion. Please, tell us about it.
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Old October 30, 2008, 08:48 AM   #118
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Quote:
Creature Quote:
Quote:
Ever hear of the doctrine of excessive force?
Not when it is addressing a home invasion. Please, tell us about it.
It really isn't a difficult concept. You can use whatever force is necessary to stop your attacker. Not empty magazine after magazine at the BG and then take a half an hour picking up brass.

Once again, if the situation calls for it I am fully prepared to shoot an intruder in my home, and kill them if necessary. I hope it never comes to that. I just find the posting of things like what the poster I quoted in my previous post wrote disturbing to say the least. WHY would you need to empty magazine after magazine at the BG? How about one or 2 well aimed shots? If it takes more than that and you need to empty magazine after magazine there can really be only 2 reasons, he is a horrible shot and relies on spray and pray or he has a need to make a statement and overkill, while destroying the inside of his home, is the statement.

BUT, and please read this carefully, IT IS HIS CHOICE and if he feels he can justify to the police and the courts why he needed to empty magazine after magazine at the BG, more power to him.
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Old October 30, 2008, 09:15 AM   #119
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Wow, this thread went from "how to store your gun at night for HD" to "how we are going to kill everyone that walks on our property" really fast.

I hope we are better at shooting than staying on topic, if not we may as well turn our arms in because we have no business using them...

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Old October 30, 2008, 09:26 AM   #120
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While I went a wee bit from how to set up a HD shotgun... KDH hit the nail on the head! I been sittin' here for quite some days thinkin' this looks like them threads in tactics and scenarios... OOPS I mean tactics and TRAINING... Rather then shotgun forum!
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Old October 30, 2008, 11:00 AM   #121
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Wow, this thread went from "how to store your gun at night for HD" to "how we are going to kill everyone that walks on our property" really fast.
Not really. It has evolved into a discussion about whether a home owner has a moral duty to retreat until he/she can retreat no further during a home invasion...and whether the castle doctrine is a moralistically flawed as some would have us believe.
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Old October 30, 2008, 12:53 PM   #122
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Creature:

Not really. It has evolved into a discussion about whether a home owner has a moral duty to retreat until he/she can retreat no further during a home invasion...and whether the castle doctrine is a moralistically flawed as some would have us believe.
Is this what you believe I am saying? If you think that you are wrong.

I firmly believe a person has a right to defend themselves. I have stated repeatedly, that while I hope I never have to, I am fully prepared to defend myself, my girlfriend, my kids and hers, with whatever force is required. All the way up to killing the intruder if need be.

I understand the castle doctrine. Really I do. What I don't understand is the evolution to shoot on sight even if no immediate threat exists (I know some believe the mere presence is a threat, I don't), the emptying magazine after magazine at the bad guy, and having multiple, multiple firearms stashed all over the house. I guess my paranoia or fear doesn't run deep enough yet. How ever to each his own.

I have said repeatedly and will say it again. My plan is my plan just as yours is yours. Whose is right? BOTH, because we have both thought it out and decided in our circumstances it is right for US.

Stay safe.
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Old October 30, 2008, 01:27 PM   #123
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What I don't understand is the evolution to shoot on sight even if no immediate threat exists (I know some believe the mere presence is a threat, I don't)
Then what do you consider an "immediate threat"?

Quote:
and having multiple, multiple firearms stashed all over the house. I guess my paranoia or fear doesn't run deep enough yet.
Why do you call having multiple firearms available "paranoia or fear"?
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Old October 30, 2008, 01:49 PM   #124
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I have read many responses in many threads how people feel the need to have shotguns with bayonets, a gun in their garage, on their person and in every room of their house because they feel there is a danger otherwise. Whether or not their feelings have merit, I can't say. But IF you live in an area where you REALLY feel all of that firepower is absolutely necessary.....AND you're nor certifiable, then I would politely suggest you find a new neighborhood.

Get a dog...a BIG dog - Rottweiler, shepherd or similar, good locks, an alarm system if necessary, and have a gun or two that you AND EVERYONE ELSE in your family can shoot successfully and practice, practice, practice

JMO
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Old October 30, 2008, 01:55 PM   #125
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Sorry we didn't spot this one earlier, guys -- it's obviously sunk to a depressingly personal level.

Don't insult other members on TFL; don't suggest breaking the law; before you give someone a piece of your mind make sure you have it to spare ...

Closed.

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