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Old October 13, 2008, 08:17 PM   #1
mbs357
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C&R and handguns...

I hate to call any question a quick question but...
I'm aboot to send off my C&R application, and I live in NC.
NC is one of those states where you have to get permission before you purchase a handgun.
So...if I want to order a CZ-82 or a Nagant revolver online, how does that work? Do I need to get a pistol purchase permit?
If so, how does this change if I have a CCW permit (also soon I hope)?
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Old October 14, 2008, 08:05 AM   #2
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AFAIK, the 03 FFL just satisfies the fed's requirements. Any state or local laws must still be met.
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Old October 15, 2008, 01:02 AM   #3
mbs357
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Well, that's a bummer.
I wonder how it'd work then...
Any ideas?
Would I get permit, order pistol and...?
What about with CCW?
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Old October 15, 2008, 11:36 AM   #4
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Ask the state attorney general, in writing (not call or e-mail) to get a valid answer. It may well be that you can't import a handgun into NC with your 03 FFL, which means you would have to order it through a dealer at additional cost. That is the situation in several states.

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Old October 15, 2008, 01:40 PM   #5
mbs357
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I'll ask around a bit more and perhaps do that as well.
Thanks.
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Old October 15, 2008, 04:32 PM   #6
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I have been wondering about the CCW and C&R handguns myself. With the CCW I don't have to get the permit to purchase a handgun before buying it, I just have to take it in and have it registered.

The only question I have is, there is a slip the seller fills out about the gun and then signs it. So if I order online there is not a seller to sign it.
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Old October 15, 2008, 08:34 PM   #7
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There have been a lot of such questions, and it all depends on the state or even local law. Some folks have even posted to the effect that the 03 FFL supercedes state or local law, which it does not. One thing is clear - many states don't know quite how to handle the 03 FFL. Some state laws recognize it, others don't mention it, still others specifically dictate how it may be used. But state/local law has to be considered if one wants to avoid trouble.

MD is an example of confusion. If I understand correctly, the state has now ruled that an 03 FFL can "import" a curio or relic handgun legally, but cannot sell or transfer it within the state unless he registers it. This is a change from the earlier position that the gun had to be taken or sent back out of state and "legally" imported by a state licensed dealer before it could be transferred.

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Old October 15, 2008, 08:57 PM   #8
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Part of the 03 FFL application process is to send the application copy to your CLEO, perhaps to address such local requirements

In Florida the CLEO copy more than likely goes in the shredder. 03 FFLs here are also not subject to the infamous three-day wait, which is one of many reasons why I got the 03

Frankly, if you must involve an 01 FFL even with your 03, I fail to see the point of getting an 03 at all.

mbs357, please update your thread with your findings, I’d and others would be interested to know how it works in NC.
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Old October 17, 2008, 08:02 PM   #9
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The CLEO signature is basically a COA (cover our a$$es) by BATFE, just in case they don't know about some recent change in the local or state law. State law changes are usually well known in the LEO community, but an ordinance approved by the city council last night will not be.

While some CLEOs treat the signature as "giving permission", it really only says there is no legal reason not to issue the license or tax stamp. I don't know of any CLEO who will furnish a copy of the law or give any advice to an applicant, they will just approve or disapprove.

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Old October 18, 2008, 07:50 AM   #10
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Quote:
While some CLEOs treat the signature as "giving permission", it really only says there is no legal reason not to issue the license or tax stamp. I don't know of any CLEO who will furnish a copy of the law or give any advice to an applicant, they will just approve or disapprove.
The CLEO doesn't sign or approve anything for a C&R FFL, it is for notification only.
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Old October 18, 2008, 08:02 AM   #11
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I found this on another forum, this is not coming from me. Caution, this is not official pronouncement, I would recommend that you ask your local sheriff as he is the permit issuing authority. (BTW, It also appears that those with NC carry licenses are exempted from the permit to purchase).

Quote:
I went to two sheriff offices today, Surry County and Forsyth County, NC.

I posed the question regarding both C&R holders and Dealers as to whether or not they were exempted from NC 14-402, the requirement to obtain a handgun purchase permit. I spoke first with Surry County Sheriff Office. What a great bunch of guys there BTW. The retired deputy who I spoke with is also a C&R Holder and was quite knowledgeable in the matter. He clearly stated it was not necessary to obtain a handgun purchase permit for C&R holders, and likewise Dealers. He stated, that often times NC State law does not "jive" well with federal law and thus FFL holders were not noted in the statute. There were two other deputies in the office and we had a great discussion about guns. A very pro-gun group of guys at that department.

I then drove down to Forsyth County Sheriff Office in Winston-Salem. I posed the same question. And while the guy behind the glass window was borderline on his death bed (must've been almost 80 - no offense intended) he also stated that if you (I) have an FFL of any kind that a purchase permit is not required. He stated, "your FFL is your purchase permit".

So, that said - I feel I'm safe to assume that it's legal to purchase a handgun using your C&R license without having to obtain a purchase permit in accordance with NC 14-402.
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Old October 18, 2008, 10:46 AM   #12
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Quote:
While some CLEOs treat the signature as "giving permission", it really only says there is no legal reason not to issue the license or tax stamp. I don't know of any CLEO who will furnish a copy of the law or give any advice to an applicant, they will just approve or disapprove.
The CLEO does not get any opportunity to approve or not approve a C&R license. You send them a copy. They can do what they will with it, but they get no say in whether it is issued or not.
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Old October 25, 2008, 04:52 PM   #13
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Quote:
The CLEO doesn't sign or approve anything for a C&R FFL, it is for notification only.
Unless they can somehow disapprove you by state law, assuming you fill all the Federal requirements. On the bottom of the form sent to your CLEO:

Quote:
This form provides notification of a person's intent to apply for a Federal firearms license. It requires no action on your part. However, should you have information that should disqualify the person from obtaining a Federal license, please contact the Federal Firearms Licensing Center at (404) 417-2750

Also ATF may not issue a license if the activity would be in violation of state law.
So don't P.O. your local CLEO.
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Old October 26, 2008, 04:44 PM   #14
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I am filling out my form now and getting ready to send it in. I am in TN and have a similar situation. TN law says you have to get a background check for each firearm you purchase. So I will have to try and get an answer to see if I still have to do that to get a C&R firearm. It seems like you should not have to, but one never knows.
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Old November 13, 2008, 07:30 PM   #15
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I'm wondering if the C&R would qualify AS your background check.
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Old November 13, 2008, 08:01 PM   #16
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I am thinking that. Even though you do not have a license to buy and sell, you do have a license to buy as a dealer in C&R. If and when mine gets here that is the way I am going to try it.
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Old November 13, 2008, 11:25 PM   #17
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Quote:
I'm wondering if the C&R would qualify AS your background check.
I've bought C&R guns by giving the dealer a signed copy of my C&R FFL and showing them my driver's license. I get thanked for it because it saves them the phone call, and they don't have to wait for me to write "NO" umpteen times.
Quote:
TN law says you have to get a background check for each firearm you purchase.
If I were you, I would double-check the law. See who is exempt from this requirement (there's probably a small laundry list exempting dealers, LEOs, court officials, military, etc.), then check the legal definition for each of the classes of exempt people. Remember that a C&R licensee if a "Federal Firearms Licensee" and a "Federally Licensed Collector" but is not usually considered a "Dealer".
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Old November 14, 2008, 12:49 AM   #18
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Possible answer for background checks w/C&R

Are licensed collectors' transfers of curio or relic firearms subject to the Brady law, including the provision for making background checks on transferees? [Top]

No, but it is unlawful to transfer a firearm to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person is a felon or is within any other category of person prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms.

[18 U.S.C 922 (d) , 27 CFR 478.32 (d) ]

Must licensed collectors comply with the Brady law prior to transferring a curio or relic firearm? [Top]

No. Transfers of curio or relic firearms by licensed collectors are not subject to the requirements of the Brady law.

Is the transfer of a firearm by a licensed dealer to a licensed collector subject to the Brady law? [Top]

The Brady law does not apply to the transfer of a curio or relic firearm to a licensed collector. However, a licensed collector who acquires a firearm other than a curio or relic from a licensee would be treated like a non-licensee, and the transfer would be subject to Brady requirements.

I copied this and it seems to make sense. In other words Tn has a background check because of the Brady bill.
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Old November 18, 2008, 05:56 PM   #19
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I only have 2 C&R pistols, a CZ52, and an M1895 Nagant. I've been spending all my C&R money on rifles.
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Old November 18, 2008, 07:39 PM   #20
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I called today and was told my application is being processed and to call back in about 3 weeks!!!
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