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Old October 20, 2008, 11:25 PM   #51
STAGE 2
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Are you saying that Ayoob has no experience clearing rooms? If so, that is simply untrue.
I can't imagine that a part time police officer in a small town would have much real world experience clearing rooms. Certianly not as much as someone who has swat/military experience.
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Old October 21, 2008, 12:39 AM   #52
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A general word of caution since several posters have mentioned Ayoob.

Mr. Ayoob is a member here and enjoys the same protection against personal attacks that every other TFL member does.
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Old October 21, 2008, 12:43 AM   #53
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IMO, warning shots are ok if u know where they r landing. e.g. here in PK we mostly have 6" thick concrete walls, it will take a half dozen of AK-47 rounds in the same place every time to punch a hole. With modern expanding bullets, chance of a ricochet is also negligible. yes i have fired my 9mm into the wall & it expanded into a 1" wide mushroom with little damage to the wall & a bounce out of 1' only. So properly aimed warning shot r a good thing & no, there wont be any legal issue since ur home was invaded. You could be even justified in killing the man in such scenario. I thwarted a home invasion by 3 BGs long time back but I guess I should post it as a separate thread some other time, however, luckily it didn't require a gun to do that.
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Old October 21, 2008, 11:38 AM   #54
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Hey, if you hear someone in your house late at night, how about calling yourself with your cell phone to your hard line phone? Assuming you have an answering machine, you can pretend to be your own secuirty company.

"Mr. XXX. We have a silent alarm triggered. If you don't pick up the phone, we will dispatch a unit to your location immediately.""


You may not need to say anything. Who the heck calls late at night? I'm sure it would make the burglar reconsider for a split second

Of course, nothing beats a clear plan of action set in place for the most common contingencies before it happens. Whether armed with a defensive weapon or just cell, you are the first responder.
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Old October 21, 2008, 12:18 PM   #55
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Hey, if you hear someone in your house late at night, how about calling yourself with your cell phone to your hard line phone? Assuming you have an answering machine, you can pretend to be your own secuirty company.
If you have time to place a call, the correct thing to do is to dial 911 and get the cavalry on the way.
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Old October 21, 2008, 12:27 PM   #56
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Reminds me of a FOF, you find a bunch of guys in your living room and you light them up with your Surefire. You tell them to get on the floor - guess what - they don't speak English. One decides to take a leak on your couch. Another comes towards you, saying "Por Favor, Senor" with his hands up.

What to do?
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Old October 21, 2008, 12:27 PM   #57
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If you have time to place a call, the correct thing to do is to dial 911 and get the cavalry on the way.
If I called 911 every time I think there is someone in the house they might throw me in jail... Im convinced my house is haunted because I swear I hear people walking down my hallway, but there is never anyone there when I investigate (yes I know some of you are like: oh nos, sit tight, dont investigate... but whatever)
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Old October 21, 2008, 12:50 PM   #58
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So who do you call - GHOSTBUSTERS!

Sorry - but if you constantly have to 'clear' your house with a gun because of noises - might rethink things.
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Old October 21, 2008, 12:54 PM   #59
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Send out the DOGS!
Hunker down in the bedroom with the wife calling 911
Throw a bunch of matchbox cars and jacks out in the hallway.
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Old October 21, 2008, 01:57 PM   #60
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A light attached to a gun is a perfect aid if your opponent does not have a gun. I am thinking for four legged animals rather than the two legged kind. It blinds them and does make the eyes reflect offering a good target.

I agree one should not go and clear his or her's house from armed bandits. Stay put or if your are sure it is safe to do so, flee. If you are armed staying put is normally the better choice assuming that you are not being invaded by 500 gang members. It is always possible that your invader is a drunk that has lost his way and peeling a dead, bloodly, sticky, fouled bubba off your carpet is an experience that most can do without. Dying men defecate, urinate, get erections etc. and released bodily fluids can spread disease and require a biohazard cleanup. Best course is to sit tight and let the police resolve the issue when possible.
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Old October 21, 2008, 02:39 PM   #61
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From Glenn E. Meyer:
Quote:
Sorry - but if you constantly have to 'clear' your house with a gun because of noises - might rethink things.
That's great!

From barnettmill:
Quote:
I agree one should not go and clear his or her's house from armed bandits. Stay put or if your are sure it is safe to do so, flee. If you are armed staying put is normally the better choice assuming that you are not being invaded by 500 gang members. It is always possible that your invader is a drunk that has lost his way and peeling a dead, bloodly, sticky, fouled bubba off your carpet is an experience that most can do without. ...released bodily fluids can spread disease and require a biohazard cleanup. Best course is to sit tight and let the police resolve the issue when possible.
I agree with that advice (if I were upstairs, fleeing would not be an option, even though in my neighborhood it would otherwise be safe to do so).

I had never thought much about dealing with a body...food for thought, if you'll pardon the expression...
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Old October 21, 2008, 03:06 PM   #62
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lowracer,

Thanks for the info. My kid's room is on the otherside of the house and if my wife's 8lb dog's bark does not scare them off then hopefully the lights coming on will.

Yes, I have guns and CCW, but do not look forward to the situation where I have to use them...
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Old October 21, 2008, 07:46 PM   #63
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Quote:
Sorry - but if you constantly have to 'clear' your house with a gun because of noises - might rethink things.
Thanks for putting words in my mouth amigo... Ive never cleared my house with a firearm before, and have previously stated my objection to it... Now I just look crazy

My point was just that houses make lots of noise (esp mine). No sense getting your panties in a bunch every time you hear something creak...

Quote:
Throw a bunch of matchbox cars and jacks out in the hallway
a la Home Alone? haha... awesome, but probably not a high priority in that kind of situation...
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Old October 21, 2008, 10:59 PM   #64
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Matchbox cars is one of the best ideas I've heard.

Point is- if someone is really there, you don't want to stumble into them. I think most people here say "clear" and it translates into "I'm gonna go look around with my gun"...not "Wow, somebody really IS there".

I've had the misfortune to 1) Go outside, and 2) Actually found someone on two occasions. If I had used my head, got the cops on the way and not gone rushing out there, I would have saved myself a lot of risk and effort.
Luckily for me, neither person was armed, or much of a real threat, but in hindsight I really went charging out there without any idea of what I might be getting into. Call 911. Stay inside. Stay in your room/end of the house. Arm youself.

Oh, and when 911 answers, the first words out of your mouth are "Suspect present". I said that one time and you could hear the four cop cars in the area go to WOT.
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Old October 22, 2008, 07:31 AM   #65
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Matchbox cars is one of the best ideas I've heard.
Really? In a world where people breaking into a house have successfully sued for injures sustained, and where booby trapping your house is illegal?
Or was that sarcasm?
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Old October 22, 2008, 08:43 AM   #66
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From Slopememo:
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I've had the misfortune to 1) Go outside, and 2) Actually found someone on two occasions. If I had used my head, ..and not gone rushing out there, I would have saved myself a lot of risk and effort....in hindsight I really went charging out there without any idea of what I might be getting into. Call 911. Stay inside. Stay in your room/end of the house. Arm youself.
Good advice.

And everyone should be aware of the law in their jurisdictions. Where I live, the moment I step outside, the castle doctrine law ceases to apply, and I'm only justified in using deadly force if I am attacked and have not provoked the encounter.

I sure wouldn't want to have a gun in my hand.
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Old October 22, 2008, 12:52 PM   #67
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No, Matchbox cars because I've stepped on them in my bare feet before...
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Old October 22, 2008, 02:52 PM   #68
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In most senarios, I vehemently state, DO NOT CLEAR YOUR HOUSE. You are inviting yourself to be an easy target. Houses, condos, apartments, all have rooms accessed via halls. A hall is a choke point. Where do you target an ambush? CHOKE POINTS. A lone homeowner clearing a house is foolish.

With that said, I also stated "most senarios." An exception would be if I knew loved ones were in another area of the house. Many modern home floorplans put a master bedroom on one side of the house with the kid's bedrooms on the other. If I owned one of these, I would be forced to clear. But I would also have a predefined plan; i.e. call to the kids to stay put, announce that I am armed, stay low and do what I have to to protect my family.

I am not in this senario, I own a three-story townhouse with bedrooms only on the third floor. If someone breaks through the double-keyed deadbolted exterior doors into my home (or climb a ladder to the picture windows on the second floor), they then have to deal with an alarm, the attack cat, two staircases and finally my Wilson Combat 12 GA.

I have insurance to replace my TV, stereo, microwave, etc., I have my shotgun to defend my a$$.

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Old October 22, 2008, 03:02 PM   #69
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I rise before the sun does. Have for years. Not because I want to, I would rather party all night and sleep all day like I was 17... (I mean 21!) but I prefer to keep the kids fed and clothed so I get up every morning without a hangover.
Anyway my morning routine goes like this:
Shut off the alarm. Go to the bathroom and use the john while the shower heats, then shower. Leave the shower, go shave (every other day...). Enter bedroom, pull clothes from dresser/closet and dress. Go down stairs, say good morning to Mr. Dinky (the cat, dog passed away), get OJ for the kids/coffee for the wife and finally make my two travel mugs of Joe (a 20 oz and a 16 oz). My wife and I both take coffee medium light with 2% milk, no sugar. I then carry the juice and coffee back upstairs and if my wife is not up yet I turn the light on
Then I go back to the bathroom to be sure i didn't miss a spot shaveing.
I have done this everywhere I lived, except there wasn't always kids and juice. I could pick out my German Shepherd Dog in the shadows at midnight.
Flashlights are for people who do not excercise there rods (the ones in your eye's, not your pants) often enough or are just afraid of the dark.
Darkness is your friend, embrace it.
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Old October 22, 2008, 03:13 PM   #70
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From Yankee Traveler:
Quote:
Flashlights are for people who do not excercise there rods ... often enough or are just afraid of the dark.

Flashlights also prevent an intruder from being able to see you.
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Old October 22, 2008, 10:46 PM   #71
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Not to be rude but...when I created this thread I didn't really care to hear what people's morning routines consisted of. If you are having trouble with not knowing what the thread is about just look at my O.P. I don't really care about how much milk you put in your coffee or how strong your night adapted vision is.
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Old October 23, 2008, 06:48 AM   #72
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Quote:
A light attached to a gun is a perfect aid if your opponent does not have a gun.
People who do it for a living seem to think weapon-mounted lights are a good thing. Note the lights on the LAPD SWAT team's MP5s:



Kansas City SWAT team:



NJ State Police SWAT team:



I'm not sure which team this is:



A team in CT:



FBI HRT:

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Old October 23, 2008, 09:11 AM   #73
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Please excuse my idiocy for not being able to filter my bad day out of posting. I apologize for this.

What I meant to say, but couldn't due to rectal cranial insertion, was a flashlight on the weapon is much better than no light at all. It is always much better to have and not need then need and not have. While I always try to keep my night vision "tuned", a flashlight can also render an intruder blind if turned on at the right time.
Best case scenario, a combo light/laser on the gun, and a handheld mag light in the other. It's a second weapon as well as giving the opportunity to lighten the perp without pointing a chambered round at him/her/it. Also gives the ability to shine light in two different directions if needed. Combo laser/light gives the ability to aim without standing behind the light also.
Be prepared for the worst though, and the ability to see in low light conditions can be a great asset. As can knowing your environment in the dark. As well as multiple choices for shedding light on a situation. Motion lights outside are a first line defense as well.

Bottom line, Flashlight on the weapon imo, and more is better.
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Old October 23, 2008, 04:51 PM   #74
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Weapon mounted lights can be of advantage in the right conditions.
To effectively use them you must be trained to use them, the same goes for your weapon. I think most of you will agree with this?


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Old October 23, 2008, 06:28 PM   #75
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Quote:
Weapon mounted lights can be of advantage in the right conditions.
To effectively use them you must be trained to use them, the same goes for your weapon. I think most of you will agree with this?
Agreed. Low-light training is important.
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