I was just talked out of buying a suppressor.....!!

cchardwick · October 11, 2008, 12:47 AM

I just bit the bullet and bought my first black gun!

It's a Bushmaster XM15 E2S (not full auto). Here's a photo,compliments of Bushmaster's website:

I bought this at Sportsman's Warehouse and when I was buying it I was talking to the clerk about getting a Class 3 suppressor. He strongly tried to talk me out of it and said that if I bought a Class 3 weapon that I basically gave up my rights to privacy and that the law enforcement could come knocking on my door anytime they wanted too. Is that correct? Would I be put on some kind of suspect list if I buy a class 3 suppressor? The real reason I bought the AR-15 was to add a suppressor so I could shoot in my back yard up here in the mountains without letting everyone for miles around know that I'm shooting.

aroundlsu · October 11, 2008, 01:16 AM

No that is absolutely not true. Searches would require a warrant same as any other search. If anyone came asking questions you have the right to have an attorney present and/or remain silent, same as any other visit by the police. Further, the only agency which has any rights to the weapon is the ATF. Any other law enforcement agency as no right to possess/confiscate the weapon, much less ask questions about it.

However, if you were a Class III DEALER your business could be inspected at any time during normal business hours by BATFE. This is not the case if you are an individual who simply owns NFA weapons.

I have three NFA weapons; 2 suppressors and 1 SBR. Acquiring them were the most fun projects I've ever started. I'm always thinking about what my next one is going to be.

The bottom line: I have met quite a few people in the NFA community all over the country. No one is reporting being harassed by any agency.

cchardwick · October 11, 2008, 01:40 AM

That's great news, then I'm off to research and purchase my first suppressor!

MPWHITE64 · October 11, 2008, 03:59 AM

What is legally required and what actually happens are two different things. While aroundlsu is absolutely correct that the law would require warrants to come into your house...abuse of authority happens and fi you believe some of the more alarmist views regarding potential outcomes of the upcoming election, you may be on more than one "list".

That being said...if you are able to buy a suppressor (legally) and want one, get it.

Always be watchful and alert to what is going on...that applys to your drive down town to get groceries or to what the government is doing to your rights at any given moment. It is your responsibility to educate your self on your rights. Get on line and find applicable laws for your state, keep up on what politicians think about subjects important to you...etc, etc.

Bottom line...be proactive in the protection of your family, your home and your freedom...no one is going to do it for you.

cchardwick · October 11, 2008, 10:21 AM

Thanks for the input MPWHITE64, that's a good idea to look through the laws to make sure I'm up to date. Here in Colorado just about everything is legal after paying the $200 tax per Class 3 weapon: full auto weapons, silencers, grenade launchers NICE. We also have the 'Make my Day' law in effect which gives you authority to use lethal force if someone breaks into your house and just slaps you in the face. This is a great state that fully supports your constitutional rights. The laws are funny too, in case of a knife with a blade over 3.5 inches if you get caught you have to say the magic words for it to be legal. It's illegal to posess unless you say 'It's a hunting (or fishing) knife'. My brother in law is a state trooper and he didn't even know this law, and I had to look it up and print it out for him LOL. I'm starting to think that even with a Class 3 weapon we also need to print out the local laws and carry them with us because many LEOs don't know all the rules.

PTK · October 11, 2008, 10:41 AM

I suggest taking a trip to Jensen's Arms in Loveland. Either that, or I can get you in touch with Alan Samuel in Dumont - both are fantastic to deal with for NFA items.

johnwilliamson062 · October 13, 2008, 04:17 PM

I don't think the store owner is necessarily mistruthful. It puts you on a list, which could in the future place you on the top of seizure lists or something. It really depends how concerned you will be with gov't seizure of firearms in the future and where you will stand if/when that happens. If you are a "from my cold dead hands," the gov't will seize my firearms in a week kind of guy, then I wouldn't get one. If you like to plink, view seizure risk as minimal, and would be pretty angry at losing your firearms, but would hand them over with only giving the finger as you do it, then by all means get a suppressor.

Personally I am going to get a suppressor or four so my neighbors won't get angry at me for shooting Sunday mornings.

P.S. Expedient suppressors are so simple to make I have no idea why they are restricted. I am sitting at my desk in an office building with no abnormal tools or resources available and I could easily make a suppressor for my 1895 Nagant revolver in twenty minutes. Of course the unique design of this firearm simplifies the process a bit.
There is a caveat in basic legal theory that laws need to be enforceable, and suppressor restrictions simply are not. Of course, that is true of most firearms restrictions.

I think more than likely your dealer is not class three and would prefer to keep your firearms budget at his store and not have you shift business elsewhere and chance losing it.

spacemanspiff · October 13, 2008, 04:46 PM

Quote:

We also have the 'Make my Day' law in effect which gives you authority to use lethal force if someone breaks into your house and just slaps you in the face.

Then again, maybe the SW clerk was trying to do you a favor. Given your apparent laxadaisical interpretation of your states laws on the use of deadly force.
Or were you posting tongue-in-cheek?

PT111 · October 13, 2008, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Then again, maybe the SW clerk was trying to do you a favor. Given your apparent laxadaisical interpretation of your states laws on the use of deadly force.
Or were you posting tongue-in-cheek?

I really hope it was tongue-in-cheek otherwise make a mental note to not accidently break into his house.

Castle Doctrine, Make My Day, Shoot First, Stand Your Ground laws are all good but widely misunderstood and not a 007 License to Kill. Be careful.

K-Minus · October 14, 2008, 04:37 PM

Instead of buying a pre assembled full auto AR and spending thousands,
can I just build an AR and buy the full auto trigger parts kit from bushmaster and just pay the $200 tax stamp and get it registered?Or is there more to it?

I don't know much about this stuff and would like to legally own at least one
full auto gun in my lifetime.Please help me out.

Thank's

PTK · October 14, 2008, 05:55 PM

Nope, no new MGs for civilians. All that's available was registered pre-May 1986, hence the high prices.

**James K** · October 14, 2008, 08:24 PM

FWIW, I registered five machineguns in the 1968 Amnesty and owned them for over 35 years with NO contact with BATFE except when I moved and sent them a change of address. I sold them when the prices got so high I couldn't resist.

While all kinds of stories circulate, the fact is that BATFE really doesn't care about legal guns any more than the FBI cares about legal bank withdrawals. If you own an illegal gun, or make a withdrawal with one, then they care.

Jim

MrClean · October 15, 2008, 07:54 AM

Quote:

or make a withdrawal with one, then they care.

Funny stuff there....

Good reads in here. Thanks to all of you. Have some NFA toys and although I don't have much knowledge to post in this area, I learn a LOT from ya'll

Thanks

Dave Haven · October 19, 2008, 01:36 AM

Quote:

FWIW, I registered five machineguns in the 1968 Amnesty and owned them for over 35 years with NO contact with BATFE except when I moved and sent them a change of address. I sold them when the prices got so high I couldn't resist.

While all kinds of stories circulate, the fact is that BATFE really doesn't care about legal guns any more than the FBI cares about legal bank withdrawals. If you own an illegal gun, or make a withdrawal with one, then they care.

That pretty much sums up my own experience with Title II firearm ownership. I made 3 machine guns and one silencer (registered on Form(s) 1) back in the early '80's. The only official contact I've had with them was in 1988 when I moved and had to notify them of my address change.
I have a friend who works for BATFE. He told me, "We're not concerned with guys like you; we're after the @$$hole criminals with illegal firearms." He hasn't even come over to my house for alcohol, yet.

cchardwick · October 19, 2008, 08:38 AM

Well I decided to take the plunge and I ordered a AAC M4-2000 suppressor. Should have it within two months or so. With taxes and fees I paid more for it than my Bushmaster M4 AR-15! It ended up costing me $1290, that's with local tax, the $200 tax stamp, and about $40 to use my credit card instead of cash. Expensive, but it's gonna be FUN!!!!!!!

PTK · October 19, 2008, 09:07 AM

Damn fine choice for a first silencer.

cchardwick · October 21, 2008, 12:16 PM

I'm actually in the process of saving up for a second one for my wife's AR-15 so we can both go out and shoot side by side in the back property without ears. I've read a ton of reviews on silencers and it sounds like the AAC M4-2000 is one of, if not THE best one on the market. The next thing on my list to buy is a few more thousand rounds of ammo!

PTK · October 21, 2008, 12:34 PM

I couldn't quite afford a -2000, so I bought a -1000. It's hard to imagine that there can be a better silencer than the -1000. You should be THRILLED.

RAnb · October 28, 2008, 06:43 PM

I have heard many claims (false and stupid) that the ATF is allowed to inspect your home at any time if you own title 2 guns. I have only heard one person claim that he was "inspected" or had title 2 guns seized by the ATF for merely owning them. This same person declined to present any details like case number's or districts involved, so I have my doubts.

Ranb

MisterPX · October 28, 2008, 07:38 PM

Hate to rain on your parade, but if that pic is what you bought, you'll have to cut off that 74 brake, and permanently install your AAC flash suppressor, or shell out another $200 for a SBR.

aroundlsu · October 29, 2008, 01:57 PM

RAnb, your post is 100% false.

PTK · October 29, 2008, 02:56 PM

Maybe that's why he said the claims were false and stupid...

freakintoguns · October 29, 2008, 03:37 PM

im inclined to think that the field agents for the FBI and the ATF have alot better knowledge of what guns criminals use the overzealous hyperinsecure leftist anti gun politicians who probably have never even fired a gun or handled one. i know one FBI Agent and he thinks that the Assualt rifle bans are useless because the criminals dont get guns at gun stores, they get them from illegal arms dealers.

aroundlsu · October 29, 2008, 06:04 PM

The AWB is useless because there are already hundreds of thousands of pre-ban assault rifles and magazines available for sale. All it does is raise the value of the weapons we already have.

cchardwick · October 29, 2008, 09:11 PM

Quote:

All it does is raise the value of the weapons we already have.

I can't decide if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

October 11, 2008, 12:47 AM	#1
cchardwick Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 574	I was just talked out of buying a suppressor.....!! I just bit the bullet and bought my first black gun! It's a Bushmaster XM15 E2S (not full auto). Here's a photo,compliments of Bushmaster's website: I bought this at Sportsman's Warehouse and when I was buying it I was talking to the clerk about getting a Class 3 suppressor. He strongly tried to talk me out of it and said that if I bought a Class 3 weapon that I basically gave up my rights to privacy and that the law enforcement could come knocking on my door anytime they wanted too. Is that correct? Would I be put on some kind of suspect list if I buy a class 3 suppressor? The real reason I bought the AR-15 was to add a suppressor so I could shoot in my back yard up here in the mountains without letting everyone for miles around know that I'm shooting.

October 13, 2008, 04:17 PM	#7
johnwilliamson062 Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 6,095	I don't think the store owner is necessarily mistruthful. It puts you on a list, which could in the future place you on the top of seizure lists or something. It really depends how concerned you will be with gov't seizure of firearms in the future and where you will stand if/when that happens. If you are a "from my cold dead hands," the gov't will seize my firearms in a week kind of guy, then I wouldn't get one. If you like to plink, view seizure risk as minimal, and would be pretty angry at losing your firearms, but would hand them over with only giving the finger as you do it, then by all means get a suppressor. Personally I am going to get a suppressor or four so my neighbors won't get angry at me for shooting Sunday mornings. P.S. Expedient suppressors are so simple to make I have no idea why they are restricted. I am sitting at my desk in an office building with no abnormal tools or resources available and I could easily make a suppressor for my 1895 Nagant revolver in twenty minutes. Of course the unique design of this firearm simplifies the process a bit. There is a caveat in basic legal theory that laws need to be enforceable, and suppressor restrictions simply are not. Of course, that is true of most firearms restrictions. I think more than likely your dealer is not class three and would prefer to keep your firearms budget at his store and not have you shift business elsewhere and chance losing it. __________________ $0 of an NRA membership goes to legislative action or court battles. Not a dime. Only money contributed to the NRA-ILA or NRA-PVF. Of course, you could just donate to the Second Amendment Foundation I was feeling pretty good, then I looked around and realized I am not swimming or on fire.

October 14, 2008, 04:37 PM	#10
K-Minus Senior Member Join Date: August 7, 2007 Location: Tabor city NC. Posts: 207	Full auto AR build question... Instead of buying a pre assembled full auto AR and spending thousands, can I just build an AR and buy the full auto trigger parts kit from bushmaster and just pay the $200 tax stamp and get it registered?Or is there more to it? I don't know much about this stuff and would like to legally own at least one full auto gun in my lifetime.Please help me out. Thank's __________________ When people ask me what's the best home defense ammo,I tell them...the kind that never get's shot!

October 14, 2008, 08:24 PM	#12
James K Staff Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 16,408	FWIW, I registered five machineguns in the 1968 Amnesty and owned them for over 35 years with NO contact with BATFE except when I moved and sent them a change of address. I sold them when the prices got so high I couldn't resist. While all kinds of stories circulate, the fact is that BATFE really doesn't care about legal guns any more than the FBI cares about legal bank withdrawals. If you own an illegal gun, or make a withdrawal with one, then they care. Jim __________________ Jim K

October 11, 2008, 01:16 AM	#2
aroundlsu Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 156	No that is absolutely not true. Searches would require a warrant same as any other search. If anyone came asking questions you have the right to have an attorney present and/or remain silent, same as any other visit by the police. Further, the only agency which has any rights to the weapon is the ATF. Any other law enforcement agency as no right to possess/confiscate the weapon, much less ask questions about it. However, if you were a Class III DEALER your business could be inspected at any time during normal business hours by BATFE. This is not the case if you are an individual who simply owns NFA weapons. I have three NFA weapons; 2 suppressors and 1 SBR. Acquiring them were the most fun projects I've ever started. I'm always thinking about what my next one is going to be. The bottom line: I have met quite a few people in the NFA community all over the country. No one is reporting being harassed by any agency.

October 11, 2008, 01:40 AM	#3
cchardwick Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 574	That's great news, then I'm off to research and purchase my first suppressor!

October 11, 2008, 03:59 AM	#4
MPWHITE64 Junior Member Join Date: May 3, 2008 Posts: 5	What is legally required and what actually happens are two different things. While aroundlsu is absolutely correct that the law would require warrants to come into your house...abuse of authority happens and fi you believe some of the more alarmist views regarding potential outcomes of the upcoming election, you may be on more than one "list". That being said...if you are able to buy a suppressor (legally) and want one, get it. Always be watchful and alert to what is going on...that applys to your drive down town to get groceries or to what the government is doing to your rights at any given moment. It is your responsibility to educate your self on your rights. Get on line and find applicable laws for your state, keep up on what politicians think about subjects important to you...etc, etc. Bottom line...be proactive in the protection of your family, your home and your freedom...no one is going to do it for you.

October 11, 2008, 10:21 AM	#5
cchardwick Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 574	Thanks for the input MPWHITE64, that's a good idea to look through the laws to make sure I'm up to date. Here in Colorado just about everything is legal after paying the $200 tax per Class 3 weapon: full auto weapons, silencers, grenade launchers NICE. We also have the 'Make my Day' law in effect which gives you authority to use lethal force if someone breaks into your house and just slaps you in the face. This is a great state that fully supports your constitutional rights. The laws are funny too, in case of a knife with a blade over 3.5 inches if you get caught you have to say the magic words for it to be legal. It's illegal to posess unless you say 'It's a hunting (or fishing) knife'. My brother in law is a state trooper and he didn't even know this law, and I had to look it up and print it out for him LOL. I'm starting to think that even with a Class 3 weapon we also need to print out the local laws and carry them with us because many LEOs don't know all the rules.

October 11, 2008, 10:41 AM	#6
PTK Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Posts: 441	I suggest taking a trip to Jensen's Arms in Loveland. Either that, or I can get you in touch with Alan Samuel in Dumont - both are fantastic to deal with for NFA items.

October 14, 2008, 05:55 PM	#11
PTK Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Posts: 441	Nope, no new MGs for civilians. All that's available was registered pre-May 1986, hence the high prices.

October 19, 2008, 08:38 AM	#15
cchardwick Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 574	Well I decided to take the plunge and I ordered a AAC M4-2000 suppressor. Should have it within two months or so. With taxes and fees I paid more for it than my Bushmaster M4 AR-15! It ended up costing me $1290, that's with local tax, the $200 tax stamp, and about $40 to use my credit card instead of cash. Expensive, but it's gonna be FUN!!!!!!!

October 19, 2008, 09:07 AM	#16
PTK Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Posts: 441	Damn fine choice for a first silencer.

October 21, 2008, 12:16 PM	#17
cchardwick Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 574	I'm actually in the process of saving up for a second one for my wife's AR-15 so we can both go out and shoot side by side in the back property without ears. I've read a ton of reviews on silencers and it sounds like the AAC M4-2000 is one of, if not THE best one on the market. The next thing on my list to buy is a few more thousand rounds of ammo!

October 21, 2008, 12:34 PM	#18
PTK Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Posts: 441	I couldn't quite afford a -2000, so I bought a -1000. It's hard to imagine that there can be a better silencer than the -1000. You should be THRILLED.

October 28, 2008, 06:43 PM	#19
RAnb Junior member Join Date: July 20, 2008 Location: WA, USA Posts: 447	I have heard many claims (false and stupid) that the ATF is allowed to inspect your home at any time if you own title 2 guns. I have only heard one person claim that he was "inspected" or had title 2 guns seized by the ATF for merely owning them. This same person declined to present any details like case number's or districts involved, so I have my doubts. Ranb

October 28, 2008, 07:38 PM	#20
MisterPX Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2006 Location: Amerika's Doyleland Posts: 809	Hate to rain on your parade, but if that pic is what you bought, you'll have to cut off that 74 brake, and permanently install your AAC flash suppressor, or shell out another $200 for a SBR.

October 29, 2008, 01:57 PM	#21
aroundlsu Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 156	RAnb, your post is 100% false.

October 29, 2008, 02:56 PM	#22
PTK Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Posts: 441	Maybe that's why he said the claims were false and stupid...

October 29, 2008, 03:37 PM	#23
freakintoguns Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2008 Posts: 496	im inclined to think that the field agents for the FBI and the ATF have alot better knowledge of what guns criminals use the overzealous hyperinsecure leftist anti gun politicians who probably have never even fired a gun or handled one. i know one FBI Agent and he thinks that the Assualt rifle bans are useless because the criminals dont get guns at gun stores, they get them from illegal arms dealers.

October 29, 2008, 06:04 PM	#24
aroundlsu Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 156	The AWB is useless because there are already hundreds of thousands of pre-ban assault rifles and magazines available for sale. All it does is raise the value of the weapons we already have.