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Old October 8, 2008, 05:40 PM   #1
bikerbill
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DRT Ammunition

Anybody familiar with this stuff?

Got a mailorder catalog today offering ammo from Dynamic Research Technologies. It's supposed to be the most deadly and accurate ammo available.

The ad says it has a powder core as opposed to lead or solid copper. The powder is of course in motion as the round spins, giving it (so they say) incredible balance and accuracy. If it hits an organic target -- your garden-variety home invader -- the powder "instantly disperses, resulting in Instant Death." their caps, not mine. Average wounds are five inches deep and 5 inches wide; the bullet turns to dust. Hard to print a serial number on it, I'd guess.

The ad only offered two calibers, 124gr 9mm and 79gr .223. Cost --wait for it -- $70 for 50 rounds of 9, $50 for 20 rounds of .223.

Love to hear if anybody's used it or read about it ... I've seen nothing in the gun mags I read.
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Old October 10, 2008, 11:24 AM   #2
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its like the old circus guy's statement...there's one born every second.....


or like fishing tackle, more fisherman are caught by the lures than fish ever are
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Old October 10, 2008, 11:34 AM   #3
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DRT ammo

I read the same ad in Cheaper than Dirt's catalogue. Same claims, same text it sounds like. I'd like to know if anyone shot this stuff too - but i won't drop $ 70 for untested ammo, and at that price, i won't shoot it at the range.

Surely if they're using it in "The big sand box" there are some Iraq war vets on line who can confirm it and the claims?

What i don't get, not being a particle flow engineer, is how they teach the bullets to know the difference between organic and inorganic targets.
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Old October 10, 2008, 11:52 AM   #4
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Sounds a bit like Extreme Shock type hype.
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Old October 10, 2008, 12:31 PM   #5
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I had been wondering about this stuff too. Someday someone will probably make a better mousetrap, but it doesn't look like this is it. Here's what Chuck Hawks found out when he tested it: Dynamic Research Technologies (DRT) 9x19 Ammunition
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Old October 10, 2008, 03:53 PM   #6
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"Gee, it costs too much to buy and test fire, so you gotta take our word for it" I read the link above and it does seem that it is expensive fmj ammo, in the end. They probably figure that no one can really afford to test it on their own without free samples, and that by the time anyone finds out how it actually performs in SD, and the word gets around, that they can sell alot of it? Step right up, get yer magic bullets here!
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Old October 10, 2008, 09:38 PM   #7
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Sounds like a way to part gullible folks from their money.
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Old October 11, 2008, 01:51 AM   #8
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I believe their add says that it can drill through a steel plate but will disintegrate when it enter the human body.....and they wont tell ya whats in it except powder...
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Old October 11, 2008, 03:37 AM   #9
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'DRT stands for 'Dynamic Research Technologies' like 'BFR' stands for 'Biggest Finest Revolver'.
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Old October 11, 2008, 05:43 AM   #10
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I tried some CCI compressed powdered bullets about 5 years ago. It's very similar in construction. It was lighter weight without lead, I can't remeber exactly what grain it was. I think it was about 110gr in .45 acp. It was made for lead free / safe ranges and to be safe to use at extreme close range on steel targets. Bottom line was it was fairly fast, like over 1100 FPS. It grouped fairly well and it didn't splater lead or copper jacket back when shooting steel very close (5 feet ). I shot some wood telephone line spools with them. The ends of the spool are 4" thick and spaced about 30" apart. Those bullets went thru them like solids. 8" total thickness of pine and without any signs of breaking apart. Last but most important thing, I had 2 rounds that broke. The bullets litterally broke in 2 peices when striking the feed ramp on my 1911. BTW the pistol I used for the test was very reliable feeding all types of HP and SWC. I shot a total of 100 rounds and it was all factory loaded by cci/speer. I think that ammo is still made but I can't remember the name right now. Maybe it was sinter??? or something like that. It was sold as lead free and not as deffensive ammo. I personally don't trust any compressed powder bullets now.
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Old October 11, 2008, 10:05 AM   #11
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Gun Nuts Radio did an interview with Harold Beal of DRT Ammo, the inventor/designer of their bullets. The show also covers another company which produces frangible ammo, International Cartridge Corporation. The interview with DRT is after the one with Dan Smith of ICC ammo. Since I've never shot any of DRT's rounds, take the interview at face value, it's essentially two guys talking about some ammo.
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Old November 5, 2008, 12:10 AM   #12
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> We did not have access to calibrated ballistic gelatin and therefore were not able to attempt to reproduce the tests documented by DRT on their web site.

I guess Chuck Hawks didn't think to improvise with some grocery store gelatin or microbiological agar. Even though mammals are mostly composed of water, mammals hardly resemble water jugs.

I purchased a box of .223 from Cheaper Than Dirt for $25. I'll let you know how it tests out in gelatin.

-Cal
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Old November 5, 2008, 12:36 AM   #13
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Not that I will ever buy any of this stuff (Yes I read the cheaper than dirt add too) But I'd like to find out if it really holds up to the claims!
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Old November 5, 2008, 06:53 PM   #14
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Hey guys,
Don't waste your money on that stuff. I read a review on that stuff a couple weeks ago, i'll try to find it again. All I remember was that the testors couldn't get it to expand. Go figure
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Old November 6, 2008, 12:54 AM   #15
Ricky B
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I guess Chuck Hawks didn't think to improvise with some grocery store gelatin

Fair comment, but he did say that the 9mm DRT bullet made a a 9mm hole through all nine layers of 7/16" oriented strand board. That sounds like it doesn't expand all the readily and that it doesn't disintegrate if it hits a hard surface.

Please post your results and let us know how your tests turn out.
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Old December 6, 2008, 05:05 AM   #16
calinb
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Results (partial)

I don't have much in the way of results yet. I whipped up some Hy-top gelatin (cheaper than Knox) and glue slime:

http://rumkin.com/reference/firearms...php#slime_glue

I intended to compare the results of the cheaper glue slime (nearly 1/2 the price of even Hy-top) with the ballistics standard gelatin--or my nearly standard Hy-top homebrew.

Unfortunately, my gelatin froze in the back of my pickup truck before I got to the range (cold weather spell) and I was only able to use the glue slime. The results are motivating, however, and I'll try again with gelatin.

The glue slime is about the same density as the gelatin, but it's much less viscous. It flows. It's also opaque white, which makes it difficult to measure penetration and impossible to measure the stretch cavity.

After reading some information on frangible bullets here at

http://www.tacticalshotgun.ca/ballistics_rifle.html I really didn't expect much form the DRT ammo. This site, and others, indicate that frangible bullets are primarily useful for close quarters training on steel targets, where they disintegrate into dust. In most applications, they behave like FMJ.

I placed the glue slime into a plastic garbage bag and then place the garbage bag into a light cardboard box to keep the slime in a long rectangular shape. The box measured about 6"x6"x18" and I fired two rounds, side by side, into the end of the box from my 1:7 twist AR-15. The first round was a Prvi 75 gr match .223 cartridge and the second was the factory DRT 79gr .223 cartridge. Both rounds fed perfectly from a 20 rd C Products stainless steel mag, as did the two following rounds I placed into a target. The two rounds into the slime were fired from 10 feet.

Penetration was probably only somewhere around 8 to 12 inches for each round, but it's impossible to measure accurately due to the low viscosity of the slime, It just moves around too much. Careful hand kneading of the entire mass of slime revealed some brass slivers and several chunks of lead from the Prvi ammo, but that's all. If you care about mass retention, this match ammo is not the way to go and the chunks I recovered were heavily broken--much like being blown from a molten state. The DRT ammo also came unglued. Obviously, I found no lead on the DRT side.

So quite a different result than the results from shooting water jugs and timber, though no more scientific or quantitative at this point.

I'll try the gelatin again and try for some photos too.

-Cal
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Old December 8, 2008, 01:33 AM   #17
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My earlier post on this thread was, perhaps, a bit oblique...

DRT is a commonly used acronym for "Dead Right There". As in: "The bullet dropped him in his tracks, he was DRT."

Yes, I know that DRT ostensibly stands for Dynamic Research Technologies in this particular case, but there's still no way I'm going to buy/use/recommend self-defense ammunition labeled DRT from a company called DRT.

This is, in my opinion, another case (like the notorious "Black Talon" SNAFU) of a company getting overly "smart" with their ammunition marketing.
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Old December 16, 2008, 02:23 PM   #18
calinb
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> Careful hand kneading of the entire mass of slime revealed some brass slivers and several chunks of lead from the Prvi ammo, but that's all.

I should mention that there was also the little glass or ceramic particles widely spread from the DRT in the slime. The particles make for a very large and gritty mass. Again, due to the relatively low viscosity of "glue slime," it's hard to determine the size of this region. At any rate, I'm sure one could ruin some good meat, at times, with this cartridge, if used as hunting ammo. Better place your shots accordingly!

I have a nice new block of gelatin ready to go and the weather is lousy. Hope it lasts and the weather clears soon.

-Cal
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Old February 17, 2009, 05:48 AM   #19
calinb
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Gelatin Test

I finally found the time to shoot some gelatin. I shot two 79gr DRT .223 rounds from my Colt MT6601 from 10' and one Prvi Partizan 75gr HPBT OTM. The DRT ammo worked as claimed, came apart, and produced a large cavity. The Prvi penetrated significantly deeper and the bullet is visible at THE 14.75" mark.

Interestingly, the DRT behaved similar to the result with the glue slime but the Prvi behaved completely differently. In glue slime, the Prvi came apart and fractured into many small pieces. In gelatin, it retained its mass. Gelatin is a solid at shooting temperature but glue slime is a very viscous fluid.








-Cal
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Old February 17, 2009, 05:50 AM   #20
calinb
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Forgot to mention that the last two photos, above, are the Prvi. Here's what the Prvi bullet looked like.


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Old February 17, 2009, 06:14 AM   #21
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Any ammo that advertises that its wounding depth is 5" is way too shallow in the penetration department for my comfort. I'll stick to conventional ammo, thanks....
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Old February 17, 2009, 12:43 PM   #22
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Thanks for the updates.
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Old February 17, 2009, 12:47 PM   #23
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Nice work, thanks.
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Old February 19, 2009, 09:16 AM   #24
Glocksterr
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looks like frangible, nothing new here, move along.



Last edited by Glocksterr; February 19, 2009 at 04:05 PM.
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Old February 19, 2009, 09:41 AM   #25
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Sounds like an expensive gimmick. I'll stick to conventional JHP.
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