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Old September 25, 2008, 01:57 PM   #1
noelf2
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Are all guns over 50 years old C&R?

Tamara's last thread got me to thinking (which I don't do a whole lot of). There are guns and rifles on the C&R list that don't qualify from the age perspective, but are there any that you know of that are over 50 and "aren't" on the list?

Also, does the date of manufacture of a gun or rifle (if date shows it was made over 50 years ago) make it C&R worthy? If the same model was made from 1958 to 1968, will the older ones be C&R and the newer ones not?
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Old September 25, 2008, 02:29 PM   #2
Wuchak
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Firearms automatically attain curio or relic (C&R) status when they are 50 years old. Any firearm that is at least 50 years old, and in its original configuration, would qualify as a C&R firearm. It is not necessary for such firearms to be listed in ATF’s C&R list. However, if your C&R item is regulated under the National Firearms Act (NFA) and you desire removal from the provisions of the NFA, you must submit the firearm to the Firearms Technology Branch for evaluation and a formal classification.http://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/index.htm

Quote:
Originally Posted by noelf2
If the same model was made from 1958 to 1968, will the older ones be C&R and the newer ones not?
Yes
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Old September 25, 2008, 03:39 PM   #3
carguychris
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Wuchak is correct, but you need to be aware of 2 caveats.

1) Not all dealers are knowledgeable enough about the characteristics of particular older guns to know for certain which ones are 50 years old. Don't assume that a dealer across the country will agree with you about the "well known fact" that a Model "X" that's over 50 years old has a certain rear sight configuration, serial number prefix, or whatever. Due to the amount of heat the ATF will put on them for screwing up, some dealers will err on the side of caution and refuse to ship to a C&R FFL unless the gun appears in the C&R book verbatim.

2) Note the underlined sentence:
Quote:
Any firearm that is at least 50 years old, and in its original configuration, would qualify as a C&R firearm.
Make sure you know enough about the gun to distinguish a modified one from an original one. People have gotten in trouble for claiming C&R status for commonly encoutered "gun show specials" such as "sporterized" WWII-surplus military rifles with cut-down stocks or prewar revolvers with shortened barrels. Non-original parts that are meant to be removable (such as pistol grips or slings) and imperfect repairs that don't fundamentally alter the gun (such as a replacement handguard that's the right shape although the wood doesn't match) are generally OK, but there's a fine line to be drawn. Caveat emptor.
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Old September 25, 2008, 03:59 PM   #4
VaFisher
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Very true!!!!!
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Old September 30, 2008, 08:24 PM   #5
seb1899
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50 years plus?

Is a 50 year old model tht is still in production exempt? Perhaps there are no such models though?
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Old September 30, 2008, 10:54 PM   #6
carguychris
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Quote:
Is a 50 year old model tht is still in production exempt? Perhaps there are no such models though?
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "exempt", but a 50-year-old gun is C&R regardless of whether or not it's still in production.

There are quite a few guns that fit this description. A few notable examples are the Colt Single Action Army (1873), Colt Model 1911 (1911, duh), S&W .38 Military & Police aka Model 10 (1899), S&W Chief's Special aka Model 36 (1955), S&W .44 Hand Ejector (1908), the FN Hi-Power (1935), and Marlin Model 1891 aka 39A (1891). Most of these have undergone various design changes over the years but still remain similar to the initial design and are still made by the same manufacturer.
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Last edited by carguychris; October 1, 2008 at 10:33 AM.
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Old October 1, 2008, 07:29 AM   #7
jsmaye
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Quote:
Is a 50 year old model tht is still in production exempt?
The 50-year rule applies to production as well as non-production; for instance a model manufactured in 1958 would qualify but not the same model built in 1959. Specific dates of manufacture are key here.

One caveat is firearms can be placed on the C&R list regardless of manufacture date if they can be shown to have a certain degree of rarity or collectibility - it's up to the BATFE.
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Old October 1, 2008, 09:03 AM   #8
Wuchak
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jsmaye is right. In addition to the 50yr rule there is a huge list of other guns less than 50 years old that qualify. If the manufacturer went under, the model was discontinued, or something else happened to make them either a curiosity or a relic. If you follow the link in my first post in this thread you can download the list and the updates to it.
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Old October 1, 2008, 04:45 PM   #9
johnwilliamson062
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So in about 10 years vietnam era M16s will become C&R?
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Old October 1, 2008, 05:25 PM   #10
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There are still some exceptions around and that would be guns over a hundred would not be considered C & R , infact you don't need a FFL to purchase if I remember right, some others should be able to verify the date on that.
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Old October 1, 2008, 06:06 PM   #11
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Quote:
There are still some exceptions around and that would be guns over a hundred would not be considered C & R , infact you don't need a FFL to purchase if I remember right, some others should be able to verify the date on that.
Any gun manufactured prior to 1898 and some modern replicas of those guns are considered "antiques" by the government and can be bought and sold without using a FFL, provided there are no state prohibitions.
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Old October 3, 2008, 09:12 AM   #12
EOD Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwilliamson062

So in about 10 years vietnam era M16s will become C&R?
Yes, but like all C&R machine guns, all NFA regulations still apply.
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