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Old February 3, 1999, 09:45 PM   #1
Herr Glockner
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There is a "quote" - supposedly having been made by Adolph Hitler in 1935 - that appears to be the stuff or Urban Legend. That is, phoney-a**-baloney. Here's the so-called quote: "This year will go down in history. For the first time a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient and the world will follow our lead into the future."

I have greatly enjoyed using this damned thing. It dovetailed so perfectly with the very real Herr Clinton quotes I also like to use: "This bill needs to pass. This is a huge problem, the police don't have a chance, and the people don't live in safety." That was in 1994, as Bill Clinton and his taxpayer-salaried officials twisted arms for the Crime Bill w. Assault Ban. Next: "People sometimes need to sacrifice individual rights for public safety." Again in 1994, as he was stumping for warrantless police search and siezures in public-housing.

I sincerely apologize for having irresponsibly spread a false piece of information. I retract it and denounce it loudly as a falsehood. To do any less, or worse, to continue to use a known-falsehood would make me as bad as those vermin which we oppose. Again: we don't need resort to their tactics! Truth, common-sense, morality, history and our Bill of Rights are still on our side. They always have been. Wow! Have I learned a lesson! Be warned, all: Check-out everything carefully before you run around, smugly blabbing it. Thanks to the Moderator for their patience with my posts on this matter. - Russ

Here is the site which exposes the "Hitler" quote:

http://www.urbanlegends.com/politics/hitler_gun_control.html

[This message has been edited by Herr Glockner (edited 02-03-99).]
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Old February 3, 1999, 11:20 PM   #2
Grayfox
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Herr Glockner,
Like you, I've heard and seen this quote a thousand times and always thought it to be real. I guess the lesson here is that just because you see it in print, don't neccesarily believe it.
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Old February 3, 1999, 11:47 PM   #3
Rich Lucibella
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Mea Culpa.
Rich
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Old February 4, 1999, 12:22 AM   #4
DC
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I've heard it all my life too. But, how do we know that that website is correct?
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Old February 4, 1999, 12:46 AM   #5
Mort
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Even so, DC, I find that it's always best in debate to suspend any facts or quotes that are of dubious origin; otherwise, they'll just be shot down gleefully by your opponents.
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Old February 4, 1999, 04:20 AM   #6
Byron Quick
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HMMM? As long as this quote has been...well, quoted, I would be surprised to learn that it was fraudulent. Anyone know a historian who is an expert on Hitler?
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Old February 4, 1999, 08:27 AM   #7
Rosco Benson
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Given that our opposition goes about spouting DELIBERATE lies, I wouldn't worry overly much about a bogus quote. The sentiments expressed in the quote are in keeping the the fascist ideals of the alledged speaker.

If you use the quote and some anti-gunner takes you to task for it not being authentic, you might wish to respond "Well, YOU certainly seem to know ALOT about Hitler! You apparently admire him and are carrying on with anti-freedom agenda!"

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Old February 4, 1999, 08:44 AM   #8
Ed Brunner
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I'm with DC on this one.Lets get an expert.
Why, Bill Clinton could have put up that website.
Seriously I tend to doubt EVERYTHING that tends to enhance Bill Clinton.And I mean EVERYTHING.
Hitler had The Big Lie. Clinton has that beaten by a mile.

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Old February 4, 1999, 09:24 AM   #9
Rich Lucibella
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I tend to go with the myth conclusion...at least enough to suspend use of the quote pending confirmation. The author (Ken Barnes) who discusses this quote at the site mentioned by Herr Glockner provides his name and email addy....I've never seen the author of the research that supposedly uncovered the quote mentioned.

Ken goes into a detailed discussion of dates that Hitler gave speeches, available newspapers at the time and the background of column authors. Sure, he could be making it up, but his facts are fairly easily checked by those with access to the proper resources.

It would seem that the easiest check would be on Ken's claim that the German populace had full firearms registration in effect prior to Hitler's rise to power.

When I get back to Florida next week, I will attempt to research this.
Rich
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Old February 4, 1999, 10:19 AM   #10
Dennis
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Herr Glockner,
I seldom miss a chance to talk about gun control (and how I hate/fear it). I had this Hitler quote (in BIG print) on the cover of the notebook I use in teaching First Aid & CPR. I must have told a thousand people (over the years) how our government must be watched and controlled or we will go the same way as Nazi Germany, etc. etc. etc.

Now I see this article in Urban Legends. Arrgh. What do I do? Well, I got rid of the BIG print and don't mention the quote any more, but I sure feel I have been duped!

It all seemed so "right"... (sigh)

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Old February 4, 1999, 10:33 AM   #11
4V50 Gary
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Not to flame anyone, but it has been my observations that any lie which is repeated enough times and repeated loudly enough times gradually takes on the facade of the truth. The nazis used this technique and so do modern propagandists today.

The biggest lie we still believe? The normal body temperature of the healthy human being is 98.6.
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Old February 4, 1999, 11:07 AM   #12
Mike in VA
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I've also heard that quote attributed to Goebbels (sp?), it would be nice to know the source for sure, but let's not miss the broader point - the first thing any government with tyranical asperations does is disarm the populace. It's no accident that the freest (e.g. the Swiss, us, Isrealis), are also the most armed. M2
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Old February 4, 1999, 12:14 PM   #13
cornered rat
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Actually, Geramn authorities encouraged shooting sports, as did Italians. The trouble, at least with Germans, is that they also prohibited Jews, Gypsies and many others from even owning a gun. Wonder why...

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Old February 4, 1999, 02:23 PM   #14
Walt Welch
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I took a quick and partial look through a list of Hitler's quotes, not finding the gun control quote, but not thoroughly researching it, as I was unaware that it may have been real. I will research this more. I did find a quote, and it amazed me no end that I actually agree with one of mankind's worst fiends. See what you think.

Sooner will a camel pass through a needle's eye than a great man be 'discovered' by an election.
-Adolf Hitler with his twist on Mark 10:25 (Mein Kampf)
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Old February 4, 1999, 11:27 PM   #15
Grayfox
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I must disagree with those of you who say you will still us this quote. The gun control crowd has told endless lies. our best weapon against them has always been the truth. If there is any doubt about any information you might use, don't use it. Let's not sink to their level.
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Old February 5, 1999, 12:14 AM   #16
DC
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Grayfox...

I mean no disrespect...however we have always had the truth, and the Constitution, and in this war they have done us very little good.
We have been losing steadily.

We have allowed "them" to dictate and choose the battles...its time to play this like my dad did, an 18 yr old Marine in the Pacific theatre...go out and take it to them.

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"


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Old February 5, 1999, 12:18 AM   #17
Herr Glockner
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Great and unexpected number of replies, folks! Thanks for the support and the wisdom I'm reading tonight. No! In no way can we knowingly use false information in our cause. It was a powerful weapon when I believed it to be the truth - but now, with the genie out of the bottle, the "quote" is a LIABILITY. If I'm spouting this thing, and HCI or someone loudly points-out the falsehood of it, then I must do a public belly-crawl. Humiliating enough was the one I just did amongst "my own" troops, never mind the general public (whose hearts and minds we are trying to appeal to). Also, if the public believes that I knowingly use falsehoods, then how can they ever believe any of my other points, as true and accurate as they might be? Aren't we all currently ticked that Clinton is a liar himself? That his PERJURY indeed warrants removal from office? We will not be like him. We don't need this quote, as great as it'd be if genuine. We still have the documented quotes by Clinton and his cronies, many quotes patently hostile to our Bill of Rights and to individual freedom. We still have the historically-documented legacy of Gun-Control, and just who it really serves when all is said and done. Millions have died at this demons' claws. It still hungers, wearing a red-stained napkin about its' toxic neck. Instead of a lobster-silhouette, the Gun-Control beasts' bib features a smiley face, and the words: Public Safety. At this point in the "meal", various models and even colors of guns are the appetizers, with the BLACK pistol-gripped firearms being especially sweet. Next will come a slobbery gorging upon all manner of small, inexpensive handguns ("popcorn" Saturday Night Specials). Entrees are to follow in the form of more bans, licensing/registration and confiscation/concentration schemes. And at last, the main course (the critter never, ever gets too full, either) - our collective behinds! Eh, I'm a bit full it tonight, but you hopefully get my point. Thanks and recall the quote from Bruce Willis' character in the promos for Armageddon: "We never quit!"

Hey, if research does indeed prove the validity of the "Hitler" quote, be it by Big H himself, or one of his toads, then by all means post the findings and source of documentation. This really would be a good torpedo to keep slamming into the lie-encrusted hull of the Gun-Control cadre.
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Old February 5, 1999, 12:21 AM   #18
Jeff Thomas
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Mike makes a good point. I have not researched this 'fact' myself, but I have heard for many years that the 1968 US gun control law was based upon Nazi law from the 1930's. For example, see http://www.jpfo.org/ , and specifically http://www.jpfo.org/GCA_68.htm . [note that the Nazi law in question apparently dated from 1938.]

Whether Hitler uttered the quote or not, it seems logical to me that such a quote would have been plausible from him and his henchmen. However, I absolutely do agree it would be unethical to use it again until its accuracy is determined.

Personally, I would not be very surprised if a researcher came up with a similar quote from the period, assuming enough time could be devoted to the task.

[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited 02-05-99).]
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Old February 5, 1999, 12:26 AM   #19
rooster
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rooster here. I say who cares who first said it, the point is , its been said. I personily think its a good idea. Why dosent someone take the ball and run with it? Make it real. The problem is we all want to sit in our nice houses, behind or monitors and talk about it doing nothing but just that. It makes me sick! Dont complain when you arnt willing to do something to change it.

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Old February 5, 1999, 09:50 AM   #20
Rich Lucibella
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rooster-
I see no complaining, here. Just a polite discourse on history and ethics. If you are suggesting that we "change" either, you've got an uphill battle.

If, OTOH, you are suggesting that discourse is the alternative of the cowardly, we are worlds apart. The Firing Line is not intended as a meeting place for comiserating; it serves a an information resource. To that end, this thread is right on topic.
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Old February 5, 1999, 10:48 AM   #21
rooster
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Rich, thats some pretty fancy wrighting. I understood it except the OTOH part. Please enlighten me.

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Old February 5, 1999, 11:51 AM   #22
Rich Lucibella
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OTOH= "on the other hand".
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Old February 5, 1999, 12:17 PM   #23
rooster
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thanks, this cyberspase stuff is new to me.

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Old February 5, 1999, 02:17 PM   #24
Jeff Thomas
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rooster, welcome to cyberspace. In addition to Rich's comments, I would offer that war is fought on many fronts. Without taking the 'war' analogy too far ( ), many of us fight for what we believe by: (1) sanely and logically discussing the RKBA (right to keep and bear arms) with our family, friends and representatives, (2) training in the proper and responsible use of firearms, (3) studying the history of weapons, related law and politics, (4) joining groups which we believe can thwart the anti-gunners, (5) contributing money to preserve the RKBA, (6) writing letters to newspapers and magazines re: the RKBA, (7)and participating in professional, well-run discussion forums such as TFL (TheFiringLine.Com), where we learn from each other, compare notes, and keep up on current RKBA news. If you see us 'complain' here, it certainly does not mean we are chained to our computers and only get up to refill the cookie plate.

And, back to Adolph's 'quote', I continue to believe that a lie is a lie (despite current political dogma). We cannot stoop to the level of HCI and their cronies. IMHO.
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Old February 5, 1999, 08:34 PM   #25
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The Urban Legend board had been wrong before!
They said that the "gangsters shooting people for flashing their headlights" was a myth, but on a gun forum we had some Police men (two different posts) that had first hand experience with gun-toting gangstas chasing and threatening them for flashing their brights.
The Urban Legend board was wrong on that, and that is one of the only times I have listened to that darn board!
I would not be surprised to find out that the Uran Legend board is wrong again about the Hitler quote.

May I be so paranoid as to say that the Urban Legend board *could* (far-out conspiratorial chance here) be a misinformation guide for the gubment. If people start believing things like the Urban Legend board every time it claims something is a myth, imagine what control that would have over "keeping the populace from panicking" and namely from taking measures to protect themselves.

Misinformation boards like the Urban Legend board could be used to convince people that everything is "okay" and that the "myths" of home invasions etc are false. Imagine what kind of misinformation could be spread by a "trusted" internet source like that, especially if we are all so quick to doubt ourselves just because we saw it written in words in a website. (rarely activated paranoid conspiracy mode: OFF)

JMHO,
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