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Old September 14, 2008, 10:19 PM   #1
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Mosin Nagant questions

I have an M44 Carbine that I just picked up some accesories for.

first, the oiler canister is diveded into to side, w/ 2 screw caps. The left side is labeled w/ a character that looks like a W. The right side has a character that looks like a H. I am guessing one is for solvent ant the other for oil, but which is which?

Second, I picked up a bayonet (a fierce lookng bayonet to be sure!) for it, but it won't slide on - it sems to hang up on the barrel band the holds the front sight. Am I doing somethng wrong? My buddy got one and it goes on to his ( full length Mosin), or dos the bayonet not go on the carbine?
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Old September 14, 2008, 10:47 PM   #2
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The M44 carbine has an integral bayonet on it. Did you get one where someone removed it?

Are you sure you didn't get an M38 carbine? The M38 did not have a provision to affix any bayonet.

The standard long spike bayonet is for the longer/older rifles.

You are correct about the oiler bottle, one is for solvent and the other for oil. Sorry, I cannot read cyrillic so I don't remember off the top of my head which is for which, but I don't know of anyone that actually uses it for cleaning purposes, just for collecting/display.
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Old September 14, 2008, 11:13 PM   #3
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Oh, my bad. I meant M38.

Is Oleg out there?
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Old September 14, 2008, 11:36 PM   #4
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I think the "slip-on" bayonet is for the long 91/30 rifles. In my experience they don't slip on those either, but have to be fitted.
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Old September 15, 2008, 12:39 AM   #5
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Like others have said the M38 Carbine was never used with a bayonet. The bayonet can be placed on one, but historically was not used with one.

As for the tightness of the bayonet fit. Part of the reason for this is because once the bayonet was installed on a 91/30, it was not intended to be taken off. That is to say, it was not intended to be taken off and on at will. Soviet soldiers were never issued bayonet sheaths for that reason, but were expected to keep their bayos installed at all times.

The M44, though it has a folding bayonet, was always kept in the unfolded position. M44s (actually ALL Mosins with the exception of the M38) were zeroed with the bayo installed or extended. Soviet soldiers folded the bayonet on the M44 only when traveling in a truck, or while the rifle was cleared and sitting on a rack not being used or possibly needed for immediate use.



The two symbols on your solvent tins are...W=Solvent, H=Lubricant.

For all the info you could ever want or use check out this website devoted to all things Mosin...

http://7.62x54r.net/
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Old September 15, 2008, 02:36 AM   #6
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I agree with all of the above. I DO read Cyrillic, but I don't know Russian for "solvent" or "lubricant." I do know that the "H" in cyrillic is actually an "N" sound and the "W" could be one of two characters, but I don't feel like pulling out my oilers to see which is which. It is either a "sh" or "sh-ch" sound. I leave my oilers wrapped in plastic, throw them in the gun junk box, and never touch them. I use water to kill the corrosive salts, WD-40 to get rid of the water, and then Hoppes when I get home.

And thats your dose of useless trivia for the day.
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Old September 15, 2008, 07:48 AM   #7
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My guess is that it's a 91/30 bayonet that won't fit on a M38 because the front site base is too wide. At least that's what I recall - I'm at work and my MN's are at home.

My 91/30 bayonet, though snug fitting, slips off and on pretty easily.
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Old September 15, 2008, 09:49 PM   #8
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re-inspection

dragging out the magnifying glass...
1942 (but the 2 is double struck)
1891/59

which (according to 7.62x54r.net) appears to be a cut down 91/30, so I guess the bayonet won't work.

but when it goes bang it goes BANG!
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Old September 16, 2008, 06:35 PM   #9
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I used to have a 1891/59. Mine was a "sanitized" one that came from a police auction.
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Old September 19, 2008, 07:05 PM   #10
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The "W" is actually the first character of the Russian word for "alkaline, which is "щелочной", and here's how it's pronounced http://tts.imtranslator.net/1hHP

The "H", is an "N", the first letter of their word for "oil"; "нефть", which is pronounced http://tts.imtranslator.net/1hHT

Is the internet great, or what?

All the best,
Rob
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Old September 19, 2008, 09:03 PM   #11
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There is NO provision for a bayonette on the M38 Mosin Nagant carbine. You now must purchase a 91/30

The best source for basic information on the varients is at 7.62x54R.net
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Old October 6, 2008, 11:00 PM   #12
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www.surplusrifle.com and www.mosinnagant.net are a couple more good Mosin sites.

Enjoy that 91/59!
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Old May 24, 2009, 10:28 AM   #13
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m38

m38 carbines were ment to be used for horseback troops they couldent work with the longer 91/30 so they made it smaller into a carbine so they can easily move it around and they didnt use bayonets becasue that would be to hard to stab some one when the horse is running what happens if the guy who got stabed did come off then you lost your gun so ya.
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Old May 26, 2009, 12:43 PM   #14
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I thought that was the point of a 91/59, an M44 with no bayonet
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Old June 7, 2009, 03:37 PM   #15
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I have no idea how someone on horseback could fire a 91/59, those things kick like a dam mule..hats off to the Cossacks and Dragoons.
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Old June 8, 2009, 07:55 AM   #16
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Quote:
I thought that was the point of a 91/59, an M44 with no bayonet
Maybe so, but they didn't emerge until 1959, and who made them and where they came from (and therefore their true purpose) is not certain.

Quote:
m38 carbines were ment to be used for horseback troops
They were meant more for rear-echelon troops.
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Old June 8, 2009, 03:09 PM   #17
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I owned 2 91/59s one is dated 1939 then 91/59 and the other is a 1941 again 91/59. Are these re-arsenal 91/30-s?
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Old June 11, 2009, 12:32 AM   #18
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Yep. 91/59's are cut down 91/30s, as far as I know. Or a very sneaky M44 with a new front sight and no bayonet assembly tube.
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