The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Forum Support > Site Questions and Tech Support (NO FIREARMS QUESTIONS)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old September 18, 2008, 12:12 PM   #26
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 35,694
"The idea that people can respectively disagree with each other is asking more than any human being is capable of."

So, you're also saying...

The idea that people can act responsibly and own guns is asing more than any human being is capable of.

If someone can't act logically, responsibly, and politely while engaged in conversation, then it is a given that they can't be trusted with a deadly weapon.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old September 18, 2008, 12:31 PM   #27
buzz_knox
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 1999
Location: Knoxville, in the Free State of Tennesse
Posts: 4,191
Quote:
If someone can't act logically, responsibly, and politely while engaged in conversation, then it is a given that they can't be trusted with a deadly weapon.
If you add "or a computer" to the end of this sentence, then we'd solve 99.9% of the problems with the forum and the internet.
buzz_knox is offline  
Old September 18, 2008, 12:43 PM   #28
Stagger Lee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2007
Posts: 342
I think that the integrity of this website went up exponentially when the decision was made to close the section where the anti-government, anti-police venom was spewing. Like PlayboyPenguin said, that's not what we're here for and it doesn't at all help our cause when websurfers or other outsiders stumble (or are directed to) this site and see that crap.

I'm all for keeping it closed. There are plenty of other websites for that sort of tripe. A site by and for lawful, responsible gun ownership isn't the place for it.
Stagger Lee is offline  
Old September 18, 2008, 12:44 PM   #29
buzz_knox
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 1999
Location: Knoxville, in the Free State of Tennesse
Posts: 4,191
Quote:
I think that the integrity of this website went up exponentially when the decision was made to close the section where the anti-government, anti-police venom was spewing.
And here I thought the "Palin's son is really the product of incest" and "John McSlime" comments had something to do with it being closed.
buzz_knox is offline  
Old September 18, 2008, 12:47 PM   #30
Stagger Lee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2007
Posts: 342
Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't, Buzz. But you can't deny that that area was routinely used for cop-hating and anti-government conspiracies on a daily basis, mainly by the same small group of posters.

We didn't lose anything by denying them the free forum.
Stagger Lee is offline  
Old September 18, 2008, 12:48 PM   #31
Playboypenguin
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2006
Location: Great Pacific Northwest
Posts: 11,515
Buzz Knox

Go back and look through the threads that had to be closed because they were simple baseless propaganda. I do not think you will find many with a left wing slant.

Sometimes people on the left did make nasty comments in L&P but they were far, far outweighed by attacks/sleazy comments from the right. Just as was the case at THR. To try and pretend otherwise is disingenuous at best.
Playboypenguin is offline  
Old September 18, 2008, 12:50 PM   #32
Keltyke
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 6, 2008
Location: Spartanburg, SC
Posts: 2,933
Quote:
"The idea that people can respectively disagree with each other is asking more than any human being is capable of."

So, you're also saying...

The idea that people can act responsibly and own guns is asing more than any human being is capable of.
That's non sequitor. It doesn't follow.

For me, it's a BIG, repeat BIG quantum leap from telling someone he's a bozo (either online or FTF) and pulling my gun on him.

When I was in high school, we all carried pocket knives. Anything with a 3" or less blade was legal. We played "mumbledy-peg" and "stretch", and cleaned our nails with them. As high schoolers are prone to do when the hormones are flowing, some of us got in fights. None of us even REMOTELY thought of using a knife. Using a knife was for cowards. We never made the jump from "games" to "cutting".

I've carried for quite a while. For the first time, about 5 years. This time, since April. As angry as I've gotten at some people during those times, I never even THOUGHT of the weapon on my belt.

My gun is not for settling arguments. This isn't the old west in Dodge City. It's for saving my life.
Keltyke is offline  
Old September 18, 2008, 01:15 PM   #33
Creature
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 8, 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 3,769
It is disingenuous at best to pretend that L&P wasnt worth the effort the Mods weren't willing to expend on policing it.

My bet is that many who claim it is best that L&P stays shut down themselves have made more than a just few posts there...
Creature is offline  
Old September 18, 2008, 01:22 PM   #34
Keltyke
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 6, 2008
Location: Spartanburg, SC
Posts: 2,933
Quote:
disingenuous
Good one. I had to check my Webster's.
Keltyke is offline  
Old September 18, 2008, 01:51 PM   #35
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 35,694
"That's non sequitor. It doesn't follow."

Oh?

So, you're saying that a person who can't control his emotions in an on-line discussion board is a perfect candidate to own a gun because he has such wonderful control... over his emotions.

That's a logical disconnect of the worst proportions.


No, the BIG quantum leap is assuming that having an on-line discussion means that participants will immediately break down into screaming morons.

That's what the original poster was claiming. Try reading it again:

"The idea that people can respectively disagree with each other is asking more than any human being is capable of."

Obviously he meant respectfully. But if humans can't be trusted to master the most basic intra-human interactions without going over the edge (in the manner that caused many of the threads in L&P to be closed), how can we expect them to master the far complex concepts that go into owning a firearm -- personal responsibility, accountability, safety, trust...

I think the answer is clear -- you can't.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old September 18, 2008, 02:00 PM   #36
Playboypenguin
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2006
Location: Great Pacific Northwest
Posts: 11,515
Quote:
So, you're saying that a person who can't control his emotions in an on-line discussion board is a perfect candidate to own a gun because he has such wonderful control... over his emotions.
I may be wrong, but I think what he is saying is that the internet has no consequences so people that feel ineffective and powerless in real can act without fear of retaliation. These same people may have the necessary facilities to make decision in their everyday lives but the lack of checks and balances online causes them to act out. They may be cautious, maybe even meek, in their daily lives. They might, in reality, be the proverbial 90lb weakling but online they can be the bully.
Playboypenguin is offline  
Old September 18, 2008, 02:13 PM   #37
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 35,694
"These same people may have the necessary facilities to make decision in their everyday lives but the lack of checks and balances online causes them to act out."

May? MAY?

How can we take that chance?

We can't, obviously! Guns must be controlled because people can't control themselves!

Oddly enough, that's a line of reasoning that the anits have been using for years.

That line of reasoning comes up in the anti arsenal every time a state talks about removing restrictions on concealed carry.

That line of reasoning came up last week in the hearings on Capitol Hill about Washington, DC's, firearms restrictions.

It's always the same... We can't risk people being able to control themselves.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old September 18, 2008, 02:15 PM   #38
Keltyke
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 6, 2008
Location: Spartanburg, SC
Posts: 2,933
Quote:
So, you're saying that a person who can't control his emotions in an on-line discussion board is a perfect candidate to own a gun because he has such wonderful control... over his emotions.
Actually, he does. Emotional control can also mean you get mad as hell and NOT react with anything more than verbiage. Control at ANY level, is still control.

Tell me, and be truthful, how many times has someone cut you off in traffic? You slam on your brakes and yell into the windshield, "You stupid jerk!" Does that mean you're gonna get your gun and shoot them?

Control can be not starting, or it can also be going only so far then stopping.
Keltyke is offline  
Old September 18, 2008, 02:19 PM   #39
9mmHP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 14, 2007
Location: Indiana/Indpls Metro Area
Posts: 318
It's humorous that those arguing so vociferously for the closing are the same individuals who argued so vociferously while it was open. The hypocrisy is precious.
9mmHP is offline  
Old September 18, 2008, 02:32 PM   #40
Recon7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2005
Posts: 707
If you just look at page 3 and beyond of most L&P threads, they are pretty bad. I have seen many good first pages, but far fewer good third pages.

I often find when I posted over there, I spend most of my time rebutting people attacking my earlier posts and overly clarifying my every position. Any simple statement over there seems to be read in the worst possible context.
Recon7 is online now  
Old September 18, 2008, 03:11 PM   #41
FireMax
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 14, 2008
Location: MOLON LABE
Posts: 1,063
Personally, I don't see the big deal about the L&P. It is one of the tamest Legal & Political forums I have ever been to. Quite honestly, if there is some thought about making it even more tame, then I suggest keeping it closed. If a person can't speak their mind without having to worry if they are offending someone, then it is not open and free discussion and is not, therefore, honest dialog. There will always be someone who is offended by someone else's comments, whether they are polite comments or not.

Thin skin is not a good quality to have in a political forum. Thin skinned people should stay out of any legal/political discussion whether it be on a web forum or in person.

Quote:
It's humorous that those arguing so vociferously for the closing are the same individuals who argued so vociferously while it was open. The hypocrisy is precious.
+1
__________________
Bob Barr for President 2008
Conservative. NRA Board Member. Conservatives Do Have a Choice in November.
Official Site: www.bobbarr2008.com >>> Barr on Hannity & Colmes
FireMax is offline  
Old September 18, 2008, 03:21 PM   #42
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 35,694
"Emotional control can also mean you get mad as hell and NOT react with anything more than verbiage."

And, it can also mean that you get mad as hell and fly into a violent rage that ends in injury or death to another party.

Once again, we can't take the chance now, can we?


"Tell me, and be truthful, how many times has someone cut you off in traffic? You slam on your brakes and yell into the windshield, "You stupid jerk!" Does that mean you're gonna get your gun and shoot them?"

Odd that you should mention that.

Last year in metro DC (I think it was last year) we had an incident where one car cut another one off and the driver of the second car fired shots at the first. Turns out the driver of the second car was considered to be very aggressive and rather unstable by his coworkers, and no one was really surprised by the incident.

So, once again, we can't really take that chance, can we?

No, I don't think we can. It's for the children, don't you know.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old September 18, 2008, 03:23 PM   #43
OuTcAsT
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2006
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 1,164
Quote:
It's humorous that those arguing so vociferously for the closing are the same individuals who argued so vociferously while it was open. The hypocrisy is precious.
Oddly Enough, I have noticed the same thing...
But even more puzzling to me is this....


Quote:
But you can't deny that that area was routinely used for cop-hating and anti-government conspiracies on a daily basis, mainly by the same small group of posters.

And this...

Quote:
The right wing and sometimes quite radical slant of the political discussions in L&P pretty much prevented that. It is hard for newbies to find this forum non-threatening when thay are slapped in the face with a ton of "Obama eats babies" or "liberals hate America" threads every time they hit the new posts button

And this Gem...

Quote:
anti-government, anti-police venom was spewing

Just a thought here, but, if that is the way some feel about posts in L&P then why on earth would YOU even READ those threads, much less POST in them?

If something is so strongly repugnant, why would you not just skip reading L&P rather than torture your sensibilities, or waste your time posting there?

Why would you want to deny the ability to have a L&P forum to those of us who wish it, and can stay within the rules? Is it impossible for you just to NOT read what you don't like? or at least don't flame just because your view happens to be different than someone elses.

Quote:
The idea that politics and the discussion of politics can be held to some sort of civil tone is frankly wrong

OK, let's try this, and I'll type slowly and use the smallest words possible so that no one gets lost, if you don't like what is on a particular thread, don't read it.
__________________
WITHOUT Freedom of Thought, there can be no such Thing as Wisdom; and no such Thing as public Liberty, without Freedom of Speech. Silence Dogood

Does not morality imply the last clear chance? - WildAlaska -
OuTcAsT is offline  
Old September 18, 2008, 03:49 PM   #44
Playboypenguin
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2006
Location: Great Pacific Northwest
Posts: 11,515
Quote:
t's humorous that those arguing so vociferously for the closing are the same individuals who argued so vociferously while it was open. The hypocrisy is precious.
This thread has already proven that the L&P should stay closed. Some people have already started singling out comments by others and attacking and/or ridiculing them because they do not align with their beliefs.

Instead of discussing the failings and strengths of an L&P section they are attacking individuals who have made statement by calling their motives into question. It is that "attack dog" mentality that has doomed more than one L&P section.
Playboypenguin is offline  
Old September 18, 2008, 04:21 PM   #45
Creature
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 8, 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 3,769
Perhaps this forum should be closed too, right?
Creature is offline  
Old September 18, 2008, 04:21 PM   #46
Playboypenguin
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2006
Location: Great Pacific Northwest
Posts: 11,515
slippery slope arguments are worthless.
Playboypenguin is offline  
Old September 18, 2008, 04:22 PM   #47
Creature
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 8, 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 3,769
Its the basis of your argument to close L&P.
Creature is offline  
Old September 18, 2008, 04:24 PM   #48
Playboypenguin
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2006
Location: Great Pacific Northwest
Posts: 11,515
No, the basis of my argument is a proven record of bullying and propaganda. Hard to believe you missed that. And it is hard to understand why you keep reacting to others posts instead of the issue itself.

This is just another example of the weaknesses of the L&P section. Anyone that dares speak an opinion that does not come from the Rush school of dependent thinking is dog piled upon and spend the rest of the thread fending off attacks.
Playboypenguin is offline  
Old September 18, 2008, 04:28 PM   #49
Keltyke
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 6, 2008
Location: Spartanburg, SC
Posts: 2,933
Quote:
Perhaps this forum should be closed too, right?
Yes, let's close ALL forums where anyone disagrees with someone else and will not back down from their beliefs.
Keltyke is offline  
Old September 18, 2008, 04:31 PM   #50
Playboypenguin
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2006
Location: Great Pacific Northwest
Posts: 11,515
The problem is some people cannot see the difference between disagreeing and demonizing. There is a reason there is a distinction between free speech and slander. Some people can also not understand the concept of being your own worst enemy.
Playboypenguin is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12306 seconds with 7 queries