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Old September 7, 2008, 12:28 AM   #1
Hellbent11
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Why no Glock 25 and 28?

Maybe this is stupid but I'm stumped... Why are the Glock 25 and 28 (.380) "Only Available to Law Enforcement"? What is the issue? I think that they could/would sell a great deal if anyone could buy them.

Thanks, Hellbent
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Old September 7, 2008, 12:41 AM   #2
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The Caliber they're chambered in, .380, takes away a critical point on the ATF's point scale of which handguns are allowed to be imported. Someone smarter than I will chime in soon.

I think a blowback operated Glock would be really neat!
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Old September 7, 2008, 01:30 AM   #3
Hellbent11
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So the ATF won't allow imported guns of a specific caliber and smaller? How would Bersa make it in and not Glock?
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Old September 7, 2008, 01:32 AM   #4
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It's more complicated than that.

There's a point scheme. If the pistol doesn't score high enough it can't be imported.

http://www.glockfaq.com/models.htm#points
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Old September 7, 2008, 01:36 AM   #5
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There is also the fact that Glock never intended to import the 25 and 28 into the US. These Glocks are for our friends in South America who are restricted to owning "non military" calibers. Without these, our friends to the south would have been left out in the cold!!
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Old September 7, 2008, 08:04 AM   #6
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The way ATF's "import points" scheme is set up, pistols get more points for things like target sights, target triggers, method of operation, etc., etc. Since both the 25 and 28 operate as BLOWBACKs (like a Jennings or Highpoint) instead of as locked-breech pistols, they don't get enough import points to make the cut. If Glock made the 25 and 28 in the US, they would be perfectly legal, but I guess they don't see enough of a market to try to compete with all of the other manufacturers of blowback 380s in the US already.
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Old September 7, 2008, 08:43 AM   #7
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Glocks can't be made yet in the U.S. because Tenifer production produces
as one of its by-products cyanide.

What's goofy about the ATF point system is that a handgun that is light
loses points. Isn't a light handgun a good thing?

Who thought up this nonsense? Oh, I forgot. It's the government
bureaucracy.
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Old September 7, 2008, 08:59 AM   #8
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Quote:
Glocks can't be made yet in the U.S. because Tenifer production produces
as one of its by-products cyanide.
Cyanide is used in manufacturing processes all the time here in the US.
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Old September 7, 2008, 09:52 AM   #9
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Some Glocks are now being made in Smyrna GA. Not sure which models, or if it is just the frames. The slides may be made in Austria and imported then assembled on USA made frames.
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Old September 8, 2008, 02:35 AM   #10
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The Glock 25/28 can be imported to the US under only 1 circumstance: A LEO agency specifically requests it, and said LEO agency therefore must own it.

However as stated prior, the .380 Glocks do not meet the ATF’s point system, and therefore cannot be imported for commercial sale.

Quote:
Glocks can't be made yet in the U.S. because Tenifer production produces
as one of its by-products cyanide.
saab1911 is correct. The byproduct of the tenifer process creates amounts of cyanide that exceed the allowable amounts allowed by our government. (EPA etc)

Quote:
Some Glocks are now being made in Smyrna GA. Not sure which models, or if it is just the frames. The slides may be made in Austria and imported then assembled on USA made frames.
Also correct. Actually Glock had participated in several bids for us military contracts. The US government required that 51% of any firearm they adopt has to be manufactured in the US. Glock achieves this by manufacturing the frame, barrel, and internals stateside. They also have the capability to manufacture the slides here and send them back to Austria to get their tenifer coating. That would have been the case had the won a military contract.
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Old September 8, 2008, 07:43 AM   #11
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Just to clarify the legality of one's owning a G25 or G28: It's perfectly legal to own a G25 or G28 in the U.S., if you're in a jurisdiction that doesn't criminalize the ownership of handguns.

Glock could certainly legally import complete G25 and G28 uppers, but I suppose they don't want to irritate the BATFE.
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Old September 8, 2008, 08:33 AM   #12
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If Glock made the 25 and 28 in the US, they would be perfectly legal, but I guess they don't see enough of a market to try to compete with all of the other manufacturers of blowback 380s in the US already.
I suspect a strong factor is that many .380 buyers are extremely price-concious. It's possible that Glock feels there's simply not enough money in the venture; lowering the price to Bersa/Kel-Tec/LCP levels would cut their profit margin too much, while pricing the guns higher would limit sales. Glock is making PLENTY of money on their larger-caliber product line. Why even bother?

This is the same reason that S&W has sold very, very few .380s or pocket .22s in their corporate history.

It may also have to do with S&W's other reason that they've never pushed these type of guns very hard... their marketing folks are concerned that they will cheapen the Glock brand too much.
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Old September 8, 2008, 08:59 AM   #13
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Quote:
It's perfectly legal to own a G25 or G28 in the U.S.,
Negative. Not for Joe Blow. LE Agencies are the only ones allow to own and possess these .380 Glocks.

If Glock ever manufactured the weapon state side, the silly ATF point scale would be a non-issue and Joe Blow could own them. Until that happens, we're SOL.

On a side point, it's a novel little idea but I can't find a practical purpose to carry a subcompact Glock chambered in .380 Auto. The G28 is the exact same dimensions as the 9mm, .40SW, .357SIG and the .45GAP. Most people carry a subcompact for self defense, not target, and I can't imagine why someone wouldn't want a more effective caliber (Note: I carry a .380 for deep concealment, but I wouldn't trade down from a G27 in .40cal if the dimensions were the same).


New idea: Can we import a .380 upper? It's not the serial controlled part of the firearm, so I'm wondering if this would curtail the ATF import regulations. The upper might swap onto an existing frame from a similar subcompact or compact arm (i.e. the 9mm, .40SW, .357SIG and .45GAP all use the same frame in subcompacts, compact and full size packages). The dimensions are exact on the .380 models, so unless they retooled the machines to make a different frame for a .380 it should swap on as well. Anyone here have an insight to this idea?
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Last edited by jfrey123; September 8, 2008 at 09:03 AM. Reason: New idea
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Old September 8, 2008, 11:02 AM   #14
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Negative. Not for Joe Blow. LE Agencies are the only ones allow to own and possess these .380 Glocks.
Wanna bet a few $$$ on that proclamation? The preclusion is for importing, not for possession/ownership. If you find one, you can buy it and legally own it. I hereby challenge you to provide any legal authority otherwise.
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Old September 8, 2008, 11:23 AM   #15
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Glocks can't be made yet in the U.S. because Tenifer production produces as one of its by-products cyanide.
Then Glock could use the Melonite process (like S&W) in the US, since it is the same as Tenifer.

This from the patent/trademark holder:

Quote:
To meet the growing needs with regard to wear and corrosion resistance, as well as the enhancement of the fatigue strength, great efforts were devoted to the development and launching of the TENIFER® process, which is also known worldwide under the trade names of TUFFTRIDE® and MELONITE®. This nitrocarburizing process has undergone continuous development with regard to its regenerability and ecology, and from year-to-year the number of applications is increasing on all 5 continents.
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Old September 12, 2012, 06:00 AM   #16
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Remember the slogan; GLOCK(tm) perfection.
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Old September 12, 2012, 06:37 AM   #17
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Glock Model Progress

The G17- world famous, was Gastion Glocks Seventeenth international patent, hence "Glock Model 17".
the G25 was a Bicycle-Pedal designed for Arctic Environments.
the GLOCK mod.28 is a hammer designed to fix a G25.
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Old September 12, 2012, 07:09 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcrogers
the G25 was a Bicycle-Pedal designed for Arctic Environments.
the GLOCK mod.28 is a hammer designed to fix a G25.
Glock seems to be under the impression that they make a G25 and G28 (click on the little picture for the description).

http://www.glock.com/english/pistols_models.htm

Maybe you can straighten them out and get them to fix their webpage?
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Old September 12, 2012, 09:45 AM   #19
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Old September 12, 2012, 09:47 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCRogers
Remember the slogan; GLOCK(tm) perfection.
Excellent reason to re-open a four year-old thread.
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Old September 12, 2012, 09:54 AM   #21
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Now now Don..he's new, he only has 4 posts so far. lol
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Old September 12, 2012, 10:02 AM   #22
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I thought Glock 380s were illegal in the US?

and as far as the thread, RESURRECTION!!! I love when that happens. Although the threads chose are seldom worthy.
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Old September 12, 2012, 10:33 AM   #23
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Quote:
I suspect a strong factor is that many .380 buyers are extremely price-concious. It's possible that Glock feels there's simply not enough money in the venture; lowering the price to Bersa/Kel-Tec/LCP levels would cut their profit margin too much, while pricing the guns higher would limit sales. Glock is making PLENTY of money on their larger-caliber product line. Why even bother?
There're are lot of products in the micro-380 niche right now. Would Glock bring anything that would change the game?

Quote:
Can we import a .380 upper?
There is a German company that makes a 9mm Makarov barrel for Glocks. .380 should be do-able. But, who would want to?
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Old September 12, 2012, 10:39 AM   #24
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More here:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=480175
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Old September 12, 2012, 01:24 PM   #25
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Quote:
thought Glock 380s were illegal in the US?
Illegal to import, not to own. carguychris has linked to a good thread on the topic.
Quote:
.380 should be do-able. But, who would want to?
The 25 and 28 are basically the same size as the 19 and 26 in 9mm. Due to the different way the 9mm and .380 guns operate, recoil is likely similar, perhaps even reduced in the 9mm models. The only reason to have a .380 Glock would be for collector purposes or in the event that it's not legal to own 9mm pistols--which is the case in some nations, notably some of those in Latin America.
Quote:
the G25 was a Bicycle-Pedal designed for Arctic Environments.
No.
Quote:
the GLOCK mod.28 is a hammer designed to fix a G25.
No.
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