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Old September 5, 2008, 02:28 PM   #26
azredhawk44
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I find it an absurd statement to say that the GLOCK! barrel (and thus the firing chamber as well) is not heat treated.

How do you withstand 30Kpsi otherwise?
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Old September 8, 2008, 07:47 AM   #27
Alleykat
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Azred:
Quote:
I find it an absurd statement to say that the GLOCK! barrel (and thus the firing chamber as well) is not heat treated.

How do you withstand 30Kpsi otherwise?
Good point!
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Old September 8, 2008, 09:46 PM   #28
D. Manley
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FWIW, below is from the GLOCK WEBSITE:

TENIFER
The name GLOCK has become synonymous for progressive material technologies in the world of arms. The Tenifer surface treatment process for barrel and slide has set standards in this regard. The Tenifer process optimizes the molecular structure of the metal surfaces, achieving a degree of hardness which comes close to that of diamond. In addition to extreme scratch resistance, it results in maximum corrosion resistance.

BARREL PROFILE
Solid, cold-hammered barrels with Tenifer surface treatment and rounded (hexagonal or octagonal) interior profiles offer numerous advantages to the user. GLOCK barrels are considerably easier to clean and maintain uniform precision even after a high number of rounds. GLOCK barrels do not have any corners/edges (as in conventional barrel profiles for deposits and enable better ballistic yield.

TEST FIRING
During development every GLOCK pistol is test fired with overcharged ammunition to establish its safety prior to delivery.....
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Old September 11, 2008, 08:32 PM   #29
totalloser
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Find me a ruptured factory Glock barrel! I have seen them fired underwater with the barrel filled with water. (Even [U]I'm[U] not that dumb, but I'll watch!) Glocks are certainly heat treated alloy. I machine and treat chrome moly regularly as well as water hardening tool steel (tractor pins), and if I were to guess, they are made of some kind of tool steel. Most barrels are made of Chromemoly or similar Stainless, but the Glock barrels are MUCH harder and resistant to abrasion. After thousands of rounds through mine, I have worn out a mag release and broken a slide spring. The only visible wear on any Glock I have seen is a little ding where the slide bumps down as the barrel unlocks. All Glocks that have been shot show this.

However, I have heard from other fellows at the range that SOME lead bullets will cause excessive leading (enough to be a pain to deal with). So I shoot plated instead.

My experience with throat bulging leads me to believe it is mostly a myth. My .357 sig loads push nearly 40,000 psi and I have not seen it in any of the mixed headstamps I load bulge. Now in comparison, Most .45's (20k psi) do not support the throat, and neither do most 9mm's which are in the realms of 30k psi. With .40 at around 35k at the high end, I wouldn't worry about it. Maybe there was some funky brass at one time, or some handloader not activating a brain cell, but it seems to be REALLY rare.
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Old September 12, 2008, 12:57 AM   #30
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When I first got a polygonal barreled 40S&W, there was a lot of talk of Glock Kabooms with lead. This was soon scuttlebutted into no one can shoot lead bullets in polygonal-barrel without a danger of KAGOOMS. This was being wildly bantered about on many forums, with very little truth to the mix. Before reloading lead, I did extensive research and discussed the problem with some well known gunsmiths and the Glock people at the SHOT Show. Both sphincters on every Glock staff were tighter than a bull a$$ at fly time. Nice folks, but NO HELP THERE! But they did make a valid point. Glock pistols are tremendously popular, and by shear weight of numbers you will have more “supposed problems” (their words) being talked about by shooters.

There was no single factor that caused problems when shooting lead; there were combinations of contributing factors. The shortest oversimplification is, “Glock KABOOMS were most commonly caused by lead buildup which could have been avoided with frequent inspection and cleaning of the chamber and barrel.” Just how often is frequent????????????? Every 100 rounds is anal, every 200 rounds is prudent??????? Hell, I’ll err on anal until I get some data to increase or decrease.

Problems:
Unsupported Chamber – Older Glocks started with loose chambers with a small grove at the rear in the 6 o’clock position, thus the case was not touching anything at that point, it was unsupported. If the pressure is sufficient and/or the case weak, then it will either expand into the unsupported portion of the chamber or will rupture.
Firing Out Of Battery - Means the weapon will fire when the slide is not completely forward; therefore, the cartridge brass is not properly head spaced against the front of the chamber. Glock violently denies their weapons do this. However, everyone I know with an older Glock will tell you they do.
Lead Bullets – the lead needs to be at least a Brinell hardness of 19. Velocities should be kept under 1000fps.

So what causes the KABOOMS?????? The common factor of kabooms was usually case failure, and most of the failures were with reloaded cases. But remember that factory rounds cause good numbers of KAVOOMS every year as well.

Glock’s research of KABOOMS showed a build up of lead at the point of head-spacing. This caused the cartridges to be progressively set farther back in the chamber farther and farther as more rounds were fired. The design of the older Glocks allowed them to fire (fire out of battery) these rounds which were set back. If the pressure were sufficient, the case would rupture.

What factors can cause over pressure????? Obviously an overloaded round will do nicely. Lead bullets will cause leading in the barrel and the chamber. The degree of build up and the number of shots required to reach overpressure will vary wildly with lead composition/velocity/powder/lube and so on. The leading of the chamber in combination with the increased pressure of a leaded barrel can cause the case to rupture. There are lots of other factors, but will not be discussed here.

As mentioned, shooting jacketed bullets after lead in polygonal barrels does not clean out the lead. In reality the jacketed bullets irons the lead to shiny flat coating and the bore is decreased.

Bottom line. Shooting lead in polygonal barrels is safe as long as you use hard cast bullets, check the chamber and barrel for leading frequently, and clean the weapon more frequently than you would with jacketed.
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Old September 12, 2008, 08:53 AM   #31
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poop

Having made 'a bit' of Glock-intended ammo, in 9x19, 40 S&W, 10mm, and 45 ACP, I have a few thoughts to share.

1) When shooting lead bullets follow a rigorous cleaning schedule.

2) Glock proof-tests their guns.

3) My research of the KB phenomenon led to me suggest setback as the main culprit.
There is more than one reason for setback, and more than one reason Glock got labeled.

4) Glock chambers, regardless of chambering, are neither more nor less 'generous' in dimension than other modern brands.
It will depend solely on the one in hand.

5) Glock barrels are not immune to over-pressure.



In short, as with any firearm, caution is the answer.
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Old September 12, 2008, 02:00 PM   #32
ltdave
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Quote:
the polygonal rifling
i just once want to see Glock say they have polygonal rifling...

look down the barrel of a Glock and tell me how a 'speed bump' looking half-elipse (lands) in a round barrel be polygonal?

now look down the barrel of an Hk USP. THAT is polygonal because it is MULTI sided...

on a side note, if shooting lead in a Glock will cause build up then when i shoot lead in my smith and wesson causes ORE DEPOSITS. seriously. after less than one box of 50 lead thru my M-15 or M-66 i can scrape out more lead than after 300 rounds out of my Glock...

heres a picture of my Glock load at an honest 20 yards...


155g LSWC over 5.7g of Unique
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Old September 12, 2008, 04:12 PM   #33
Loader9
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My Baby Eagles are all polygon barrels and none of them shoot lead bullets worth a crap. Groups of 6" or bigger at 25 yds is not even close to acceptable considering any of them will shoot an inch or tighter at the same distance with jacketed. I would say try it and if it works in yours, have at it. If it doesn't, try plated and if that doesn't work, you're stuck with using jacketed ammo. Don't know if you don't try.

I think what oldcspsarge was referring to was that Glocks are noted for the unsupported chamber and issues resulting from it. For those not having seen any issues, I hope you luck continues. But here are some articles from just one website.
This is a new out of the box Glock that went KaBoom
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/40fed-kb.html
This one went KaBoom because the ammo was not sized correctly
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/glock-kb2.html
This is about the Glock breachface failures
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/greek17.html
This is another Glock gone KaBoom
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/g21kb.html
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/g36kb.html
Glock model 26-27
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/guiderods.html
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/problems.html

Obviously, I could fill the bandwidth with Glock failures. That's why powder makers are now recommending you don't use their products on ANY pistol that uses an unsupported chamber. Glock says NO RELOADED AMMO and the powder makers are saying NO RELOADED AMMO in these type pistols, you'd think somebody would get the message.
http://www.accuratepowder.com/Safety.htm

But even with all of these warnings, there will still be those that will shoot reloads and continue to buy pistols like these. You've been warned and you have to know if you have a failure you're on your own. All I can say is best of luck.
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Old September 12, 2008, 05:30 PM   #34
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Quote:
Obviously, I could fill the bandwidth with Glock failures. That's why powder makers are now recommending you don't use their products on ANY pistol that uses an unsupported chamber. Glock says NO RELOADED AMMO and the powder makers are saying NO RELOADED AMMO in these type pistols, you'd think somebody would get the message.
http://www.accuratepowder.com/Safety.htm
As I said in the first post in the thread, nearly every firearm manufacturer says "NO" to handloads in their firearms.

As for powder makers warning about "pistols like these", the only warnings I see regularly are with regards to the .40 S&W cartridge and they never state specific guns.
Quote:
But even with all of these warnings, there will still be those that will shoot reloads and continue to buy pistols like these. You've been warned and you have to know if you have a failure you're on your own. All I can say is best of luck.
Again, all the evidence says otherwise. Nobody believes "you are on your own" because Glock goes to bat for all kinds of failures.

The problem that the end user has is that when the manufacturer's (guns, powder, bullet, reloading tools) start tossing in these obligatory warnings with the sole intention of covering their own asses, the end user has no idea how separate reality from fluff.
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Old September 22, 2008, 03:49 PM   #35
GuateShooter
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I started a post like this one year a go, many of the shooters write "you cant shoot lead bullets in a glock" at this time I can say : yes you can shoot lead in glock mine G22 has + 8,000 shoots, I clean the barrel after each sesion and stills fine ready to shoot at the next day, all the rounds was reloading by my self
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Old September 23, 2008, 11:47 AM   #36
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Thank you

"Rigorous cleaning schedule", to be determined by the specific example in hand.
Like stated above: "after each session".

Safety first.
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