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Old August 21, 2008, 05:59 PM   #1
halo2304
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I think I broke my Rem. 700! HELP!!!

Today I bought a Remington 700 LTR in .223. Great gun. The first twenty shots went pretty smoothly. The second twenty, not so much. After shot #24, I can't get the bolt completely up. I can only rotate the bolt handle most of the way to about the 2 o'clock position. It appearantly needs to rotate a little bit more to move back and extract the fired round. A guy at the range told me it's probably a broken shell. By the way, the ammo I was shooting was Wolf ammo. I know it's probably not recommended ammo and if it turns out my problem is connected to Wolf, shot #24 will be the last Wolf bullet through it. (It may be the last Wolf bullet I shoot through it anyway.) Any help would be much appreciated.
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Old August 21, 2008, 06:12 PM   #2
CPTMurdoc30
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You might try a small rubber or plastic mallet and tap the bolt handle the rest of the way open. If you are not comfortable doing this then take it to a gunsmith and have them do it.

It sounds like the case broke at a point along the wall in a circular motion. So it allows you to move the bolt to a point then the jagged edge catches not allowing you to more the bolt anymore.

While shooting that round #24 did you notice that the recoil was different more less did you get any powder coming out of the action did you see any brash shavings on the exterior of the bolt or action. Make sure you look in the little hole on the right hand side of the action forward of the opening. See if there is anything in there.

It sounds like you had an over pressure cartridge and it more than likely should go to a gunsmith for inspection just to be on the safe side.
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Old August 21, 2008, 06:25 PM   #3
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Remington bolt handles are brazed on. I wouldn't whack it too hard unless you want to break it off.

Turn it muzzle up, squirt a gob of Kroil down the barrel and let it soak. After an overnight soak, work the bolt handle up and down. If it still won't release, unload the magazine by popping the floorplate, box it up and send it back to Remington.

My guess is the extractor jumped out of its groove and has things bound up.
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Old August 21, 2008, 06:28 PM   #4
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Was the Wolf ammo steel case or brass and was it listed as 5.56 or .223 when you purchased it? If it is steel cased you may have a harder time working the bolt even with a rubber mallets. 5.56 ammunition operates at a little higher pressure than the .223 Rem. While I doubt you did any serious damage to your rifle in 24 shots, I'd quit using that ammunition if it is 5.56 and your rifle is only chambered for .223 Rem.

+1 to everything CPTMurdoc30 said.
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Old August 21, 2008, 06:47 PM   #5
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taylor is right 5.56 and .223 aren't exactly the same. 5.56 has a thicker case and is loaded to a higher pressure. some .223's have a problem w/them and some don't. Either way you're not supposed to fire the 5.56 so don't send it to rem. find a good gunsmith. I would guess that if you send it to Rem. they are going to say you used the wrong ammo charge for the repair and charge you return shipping. cheaper to go to a gunsmith.
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Old August 21, 2008, 07:11 PM   #6
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First off, take your time, you have NOTHING To gain by being in a hurry.


ok relax, your not the first one who did this, nor will you be the last.


Get a good place to sit with a lot of good light.

examine the gun. any bumps ridges or other artifacts on the barrel showing perhaps a blocked bore or stuck bullet? no? good! yes? bad, empty the mag and ship to Remington.

oK back to looking, nothing showing that the gun has deformed in any way? good, remove the action and the barrel from the stock.

as you flip the action over, anything appear cracked or damaged from the bottom side?> no good. with the barrel down and over something like newspaper or towel. douse the openings of the loading/ejection port and the magazine cut out with Kroil, or similar pentrating oil, prop the gun in the corner and let it soak, repeat, repeat

if you have a vise, carefully clamp the action in the vice using a nice clean set of jaw pads or even a clean leather glove between the jaws and the action, again, take your time, going fast and making a huge gouge in the side of your action is not needed. I often wrap the action with masking tape and some leather for this.

With the action secured, and oil liberally dripping off the spots we wet down. try to wiggle the bolt handly in the appropriate range of motion.

douse with oil, try it again. If there is NO change in the feel or movement stop, if there is, add more oil, and using slow firm force, move that bolt back and forth a BIT more. I will often use a small block of wood between my palm and the bolt handle to save my hand. If the handle responds and moves, just keep doing until it feels like the bolt should function. sometimes a soft block of pine or a chunk of delrin or nylon can be used as a buffer between the bolt and the hammer/mallet. just tap it, hammering will break it loose. again hurrying now is a lost cause.

time and some effort will probable let it open
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Old August 21, 2008, 08:00 PM   #7
Alleykat
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I know some folks use Wolf for AR plinking ammo, but I can't for the life of me understand putting that crap in a quality bolt rifle! Good luck getting the bolt open. The advice you've already been given should assure your success.
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Old August 21, 2008, 08:04 PM   #8
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I am always amazed at how often people go out and spend big bucks on a really nice rifle, and then buy the absolutely cheapest low grade ammunition to shoot in it.

I once went hunting with a fellow who was new to varmint hunting, and he had invested in a nice Remington 700 VS varmint rifle and B&L 4200 scope. I had advised him on what type of ammo to buy to go marmot hunting.

However, when I met up with him in the field, I found that he had instead bought the cheapest Federal American Eagle 55 gr FMJ ammo. I was not happy and reminded him that I had told him specifically not to buy and sight in with such ammo, since we were going to hunt animals that often perched themselves on rocks, and there were homes nearby. I had specifically told him about hunting loads that used fragile bullets that would have no chance of ricocheting, and would also make far more humane kills.

When I asked him why he had bought the ammo, he told me that he got it because "it was on sale".

I should have wrote the fellow off then, but I unfortunately hunted with him a couple more times.

.
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Old August 21, 2008, 09:08 PM   #9
halo2304
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I didn't notice any difference in shots #1-#24. The boxes are marked .223 and I already know that there is a difference between .223 and 5.56. I am definitely not going to use Wolf ammo anymore regardless of whether or not it is linked to my issue. That said, what ammo would you suggest feeding it? Keep in mind, it will not be used for hunting, just long range "plinking."

Before leaving the firing line (no pun intended) I removed the remaining ammo from the magazine. (Not only would it be against the law to transport a loaded rifle, but it's also proper SOP for a malfunction.)

I'll try the "oil downd the barrel" trick. I'm also planning on bringing it back to the shop where I bought it. The previous owner is also a regular customer.
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Old August 21, 2008, 11:08 PM   #10
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Moved to appropriate forum.
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Old August 23, 2008, 12:33 AM   #11
T. O'Heir
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"...The previous owner..." Used then? That's most assuredly not a bad thing. However, it's not something the shop will fix for free. You've had an ammo related thing and maybe a shooting too fast thing. Steel cased ammo is unforgiving stuff.
Put the rifle in a padded 4" vise and bash the bolt hand with a rubber or plastic mallet. That's exactly what a smithy will do. Brazing isn't going to break. Mind you, not everybody has a 4" vise to pad .
When you get it sorted out, you need to try a box of as many brands as you can to find the ammo your rifle shoots best.
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Old August 23, 2008, 04:56 PM   #12
halo2304
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The gun is used. As for shooting too fast...it's a bolt action and I'm not related to Oswald! I talked to one of the gun shop owners today at a gun show. I explained the issue to him and I feel pretty confident they'll help me out with it for free. I would've gone to the shop to see the other owner but I wasn't feeling well. I got home, dropped my stuff down, lifted the toilet seat and :barf: Thank god I'm feeling better.

I sprayed some WD-40 down the barrel and tried the action again. No go. I'm thinking of trying a cleaning rod down the bore to see if I can't dislodge the shell. I'll try the rubber mallet when I get a chance. I've read that the Remington 700 sometimes has an issue with brass shavings causing the bolt to stick. Can anyone confirm this?
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Old August 23, 2008, 05:46 PM   #13
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I got 2 and never had this problem except with hot reloads and thats the only time. If you need to send in for repair, DONT send to Remington because you might forget what your gun looked like with their turn around time. Send it to a Factory authorized repair place and it should be alot quicker. I have seen Remington take months to turn around repairs:barf:.
+1 for the Kroil down the barrel, Let it sit overnight with Kroil. WD-40 is good but Kroil is great because its thinner and seeps into tighter places. Good luck and let us know how you make out.
PS- Silver solder has a 90,000+ psi tensile strength so it would be real hard to break the solder joint and never heard of the brass shavings thing but at least brass is softer than steel and im sure the brass would give first.
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Last edited by mikenbarb; August 24, 2008 at 09:29 PM.
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Old August 23, 2008, 05:52 PM   #14
VaFisher
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If the guy is willing to do it free of charge why not let him, even if it cost you a small amount it would be a cheap leason. I would not listen to T. O'Heir, he has nothing to lose when you break your handle off, if he would offer anything it would be it should not have broke unless you hit it to hard.
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Old August 24, 2008, 06:04 PM   #15
halo2304
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"Free at last, free at last. Thank God Almighty, we are free at last."

Today at the range, I managed to free the bolt. I gave it a couple of taps on the edge of the shooting bench. The bolt opened but the case was still stuck in the chamber. I ran a cleaning rod down the bore and tried to push it out with no luck. Then, a friend showed up and he managed to help me out with his military cleaning rod and a hammer. A couple of taps and the case popped out. To thank him, I gave him the rest of the Wolf ammo to use in his Galil. (He's fed it Wolf ammo before with no problems.)

After getting it clear, we ran a bore snake through it a couple of times and then I put some Reminton BRASS ammo through it. I had to re-zero the scope because I removed it before I freed the action. All rounds hit the target, the top of a box of copy paper, from 100 yards.

I plan to clean the bolt and chamber real well. I'm just fricken' ecstatic that I can shoot it again! Thanks for all the help guys! I'll post some picks of my gun soon.
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Old August 24, 2008, 06:33 PM   #16
Nnobby45
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Normally a sticky bolt is associated with excessive pressure, and the case stuck in the chamber seems to support that theory.

As for Wolf ammo, it's not the Wolf bullet that's the problem, it's the steel case which I won't allow to abuse my extractor.

Yes, I know, some folks shoot it by the case. Seems to be, otherwise, reasonbly good practice ammo.

I had a M700 .223 that I handloaded to push a 55 gr. bullet at about 3100 fps. About factory velocity.

I chronographed some PMC 5.56mm 193 ball ammo loaded to military specs through the gun and velocity exceeded 3500 fps! That's .22-250 vel. Save military ammo for military rifles.
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Old August 24, 2008, 08:10 PM   #17
halo2304
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As promised...


I started on the high, right corner and the last shot was the one on the 9-10 line.
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Old August 24, 2008, 09:32 PM   #18
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Congrats on the fix and you made out great! Try some different ammo(with brass cases), That gun should give you a ragged hole@ 100yds. Federal Gold Medal is great ammo and shoots great in them.
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Old August 25, 2008, 02:40 AM   #19
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You can shoot 223 ammo in a rifle chambered for the 5.56mm round but you can't shoot 5.56 ammo in a rifle chambered for the 223.


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Old August 25, 2008, 11:15 AM   #20
halo2304
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When I first shot it at the 35 yard line I was getting ragged holes. I thought I was missing until I went to retrieve my target and saw the slightly oblong holes. I know 35 yards isn't indicative of longer range performance but just know that I had my scope set to 3x not 9x and it was also my first time shooting the rifle.

I would have punched more holes yesterday but I only had 20 rounds with me and I had a couple of other guns I had brought to shoot. I can't wait for the weekend!

I know about the .223 vs 5.56 defferences, which is why I'm almost tempted to have it re-chambered to take the 5.56 so it would negate the issue of "Is this .223 or is it 5.56?" I think I'll hold off on the re-chambering. Besides, there are other things I need first...like a bi-pod, better scope, base and rings. All in good time.
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Old August 25, 2008, 07:58 PM   #21
Harry Bonar
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223?

Sir;
I really see no difference between the military 223 and the civilian 223. The same argument is made about the 308 Winchester andf the 7.62 X 51!
Loading tables make no difference between the two. Yes, the 308 Winchester operates at a slightly higher pressure and the headspace tolerances are a few thou. different but I feel this is because of G.I. cases and clearance for dirt and grime in combat.
Now, most 22 centerfires have a 1 in 14 twist (Sako is 1 in 12) and these twists will not stabilize the 62 grain military bullet.
The difference in pressure is negated because ammo will differ that much sometimes when averaging.
I'd clean your chamber very well and use some JB bore cleaning paste in the barrel. I would stick to commercial Remimgton ot Winchester or Federal ammo with no more than 55 gr. bullets Harry B.
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Old August 25, 2008, 08:42 PM   #22
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You won't find many ARs with a 1-in-12 twist. Most are 1-in-7 to 1-in-9.
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Old August 25, 2008, 09:36 PM   #23
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Skip the bipod. Shoot slowly and then post a new picture. BTW, Is that scope secure and doesn't shift on you? Your group should be much tighter than what is shown in the picture.
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Old August 26, 2008, 09:09 PM   #24
halo2304
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Yes, the groups should be tighter and they would be if I left the scope on before forcing the action open. I removed it so I wouldn't damage it. My target in the above pictures shows my re-zeroing. While I don't really NEED a bi-pod, I'd like one so I don't have to rely on resting it on a back pack or something. I plan on shooting it some more this weekend and I'll post my results after.
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Old August 27, 2008, 06:54 PM   #25
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My experience is that commercial .223 brass and LC military brass have the same case capacity. Also, one "swages" military ammo to remove the primer crimp. The primer isn't "swaged".
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