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Old August 30, 2008, 03:02 PM   #26
vox rationis
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Are you sure that was just an innocent cow?

Just a gentle nudge to mooove us back on topic. We don't want this to get udderly rediculous .
hilarious ...one more thing to worry about in this world: uppity socialist revolutionary cows with guns
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Old August 30, 2008, 03:21 PM   #27
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one more thing to worry about in this world: uppity socialist revolutionary cows with guns
Don't laugh.

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Old August 30, 2008, 09:49 PM   #28
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Looks like others beat me to the CowsWithGuns site.

Quote:
Why would you ever shoot through a door without knowing for sure whats on the otherside.
Most bedroom doors are hollow-core doors. If you've replaced yours with a solid door, give yourself 5 points for preparedness. For the rest of us, that door is about as much of a barrier as cardboard.

I live alone and seldom have stay over guests. If someone got in on a night where the bedroom door was closed & locked (for some reason) and I awoke to a rattling of the doorknob....

- It's likely I DO have a stay-over guest and if so, I'll ask what do they want. Incoherent or no reply will cause me to arm and prepare for some "unknown circumstances".

- If it's a case of no stay-over guests I'm probably NOT going to make inquires to give away the fact that I'm alerted to their presence.

- If there is a hard slamming noise or the sound of splintering wood, I'll launch a pair of JHP about 4 inches inside the doorknob and about 12-inches above it in anticipation of the barrier failing. [Presumes no guests.]

- If the door is kicked in, fire to slidelock, grab the .357 back-up and hold position while dialing 911.

At this point is when people usually make the claim about "identifying your target". Fine. As intruders with evil-intent don't carry IFF transponders and I don't have the electronics anyhow.

In rapid sequence:
1. When a guest is present in the house, VFR (visual fighting rules) apply.
... 1.1. A guest is most likely to knock on the bedroom door.
... 1.2. A guest is most likely to announce their needs when questioned.
2. When no guests are present TNR (Threat neutralization rules) apply
... 2.1. A quiet rattling of the doorknob indicates a stealth entry attempt.
... 2.2. An attempt to quietly shove the door open indicates a stealth entry attempt.
... 2.3. Stealth entry attempts followed by attempts to break open the door indicate a serious threat.
... 2.4. Authorities (under some emergency) will loudly knock and announce who they are and the nature of the emergency. So too would neighbors likely be yelling "fire" or some similar warning.
... 2.5. If the door is attacked and giving way, the person on the other side is not my friend.
... 2.6. If the threat subsides, then dial 911 for cavalry support and maintain security on the closed door. Ideally with the 12-gauge.

And before someone tries to "what if..." an improbable circumstance (...a deaf-mute 'dwarf' from a different social culture) I'll point out that someone intruding has already committed at least one felony by the time they've reached my bedroom door.
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Old August 31, 2008, 08:43 AM   #29
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Rattle the door

Bedroom door is of the louvered type. No knob. All entry doors dead bolt locked and windows closed and locked. Alarm is set. Noise in house will result in very possible gun fire as long as the wife is next to me in bed.
At this point as far as I am concerned NO ONE should be in the house EXCEPT THE WIFE AND I. No extra keys out there so no one should be in the home with us, PERIOD!!!
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Old August 31, 2008, 10:53 AM   #30
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"what if..." an improbable circumstance (...a deaf-mute 'dwarf' from a different social culture
that actually happened a couple towns over. was in the local paper.
the dwarf used a cow to gain entry.
apparently, the cow was fluent in sign language.
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Old August 31, 2008, 12:22 PM   #31
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I read the same thing...but the cow was udder the influence.
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Old August 31, 2008, 12:34 PM   #32
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A rattle at the bedroom door

I let the dogs decide if it is friend or foe. Actually, if they can get to the bedroom door without the dogs going off, they are family.
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Old August 31, 2008, 12:59 PM   #33
vox rationis
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I let the dogs decide if it is friend or foe
In that case a rattle at the bedroom door would be the crook signaling you to activate EMS on his behalf
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Old August 31, 2008, 01:49 PM   #34
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answer ,
E) swiss cheese door, walls around door, floor in front of door and ceiling above door. shoot until out of ammo. start throwing guns, knifes, alarm clock, pillows...


j/k, the only way i would ever shoot sight unseen through door is if someone else has already started shooting at me through said door and even then, i'll probably opt for a window exit.

i've heard eerie/hair raising rattlings at door before and it just turned out to be the wind trying to pass threw the house w/ a closed door in the way. (and believe me, it didn't sound like wind could do that)
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Old August 31, 2008, 02:43 PM   #35
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but the cow was udder the influence
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Old August 31, 2008, 09:51 PM   #36
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Depends on where you live.

Really since we all live in different places governed by a completely different set of rules.

In order to convince a jury that you had no other choice of taking a life is that the perp had opportunity, ability and your life was in jeopardy. Without all 3 it's homicide unless you live in a shoot first state that recognizes the castle doctrine.

So to cover my own ass I'm covering and challenging. Until that door breaches whereas the perp has opportunity and most likely ability I'm not doing anything but calling 911. I've got the opportunity in this situation - he doesn't know what the inside of my room looks like, he doesn't know how many are in the room and unfortunately for him there are 2 of us with firearms that certainly know how to use them and have pre-determined a plan for this type of situation.

Best case scenario the person runs away. Worst case scenario he kicks open my door and gets a slug in the chest. Either way I've won.
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Old September 1, 2008, 06:09 PM   #37
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In order to convince a jury that you had no other choice of taking a life is that the perp had opportunity, ability and your life was in jeopardy.
Means, opportunity, intent in SC. The castle doctrine is in effect here, but you still need those three.
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Old September 1, 2008, 06:51 PM   #38
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Quite honestly? Things that go bump in the night are of no particular concern to me; I'd just roll over and go back to sleep. If it's something really important the Pit Bulldog at the foot of the bed will let us know.

Trust me! There are better things for someone to do with the remainder of his life than trying to wander around our home in the dark. As far as I'm concerned, coming here uninvited late at night would be, well, better than an old fashioned coon hunt: plenty of guns, lights, growls 'n noise, and someone running for a tree. We'd, all, have us a regular country hoedown; and, the critters would eat good in the morning!

Next hypothetical situation, please, ....
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Old September 1, 2008, 06:59 PM   #39
Don P
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Rattle the door

Quote:
In order to convince a jury that you had no other choice of taking a life is that the perp had opportunity, ability and your life was in jeopardy.

Means, opportunity, intent in SC. The castle doctrine is in effect here, but you still need those three.

As the saying goes, better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

It is quite evident to me that if some one has the balls to break in and is now at you bedroom door what part of MEANS, OPPORTUNITY,& INTENT are not there. Do you realy think he's looking for a lite for his smokie or crack pipe? Or maybe a drink of water.
As I stated earlier, if you go to bed knowing the doors and windows were locked. NO ONE, BUT NO ONE should ever be in the house other than family members. Just my opinion from a gun friendly state.
And as always remember your tin-foil hats.
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Old September 1, 2008, 10:14 PM   #40
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As the saying goes, better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
"First, we get you out of the hands of the pallbearers. That's a good step, but it's not all there is to it. An 8 by 12 cell isn't much of a life." -- Massad Ayoob.

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Old September 3, 2008, 02:03 PM   #41
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Shoot through the door???

An important point to remember is that if you shoot through the door at an unknown target of unknown danger then you are liable. Forget the "judged by 12/carried by 6" stuff. If you shoot at someone who is not threatening you (or another person) then you will go to jail. And you may kill someone who is completely innocent. There are a hundred reasons why someone may be rattling your door knob. Being scared isn't a reason to take a life.
-Don’t get me wrong- if someone walks in your door threatening your life then you would be justified to shoot them. But you had better be sure of your target. It might be the Cop who found your door open (after scaring off a burglar) and is checking the house for more burglars! It happens more than you think.
The short answer? Only a fool shoots at something he can't see!
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Old September 3, 2008, 02:25 PM   #42
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Quote:
An important point to remember is that if you shoot through the door at an unknown target of unknown danger then you are liable.
One of the primary rules of guns - be sure of your target.

The only time you are permitted to shoot is if the BG has opportunity, ability, and intent. You can prove none of these through a door.
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Old September 4, 2008, 01:34 AM   #43
BillCA
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For 98% of conditions I agree .. you shouldn't fire thru a closed door.

But, living alone and having someone attempt to open a clocked & locked bedroom door in oh-dark-thirty is reason for alarm. Most bedroom doors offer about as much protection as cardboard because they're hollow-core doors.

Mine isn't. If wood starts splintering, either the solid door itself or the moulding/door frame, someone is capable of ripping moulding attached by 3-1/2" screws. At this point, I already have a felonious intruder breaking down my last reinforced barrier.

It's unlikely to happen in reality though. My attack cat would make mincemeat out of 'em.
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Old September 4, 2008, 02:19 AM   #44
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TFL Members are ambassadors to the world for firearm owners. What kind of ambassador does your post make you?

--Capt Charlie
I think Charlie asks the right question here.

When some one starts a thread asking if we'd shoot thru a door at an unknown target that hasn't even been ID'd as a threat, then the poster fails in the ambassador department, since killing your neighbor who knocks on your door for help during an emergency isn't cool, anymore than filling a cop full of holes who came to let you know your car (that you didn't know was stolen) was just recovered a half hour ago.

It's good to see that so many of the replies made a joke out of the thread, which is appropriate IMO.
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Old September 4, 2008, 09:45 AM   #45
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Pardon me - and thanks for pontificating.

The purpose of the thread was to bring some reality to posts in a previous threade where folks said they would just open fire at the slightest provocation. Challenging or ID'ing the possible threat was not part of their plan.

I intended to point out that life is more complex and show a realistic scenario that could happen (has happened to me once, BTW) and see if the blood lust crowd could see the point.

Also, FYI, in various FOF training scenarios, folks practice what to do with an intruder at the door.

So, your initial conjectures about the thread are off base and you missed the point in your self righteous pontification.
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Old September 4, 2008, 09:48 AM   #46
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All you door shooters there might want to read up on the Peairs case out of Baton Rouge, LA. Remember, with Peairs he was found not guilty of any criminal act but it still cost him close to a million dollars by the time it is all over with.
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Old September 4, 2008, 04:32 PM   #47
Nnobby45
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So, your initial conjectures about the thread are off base and you missed the point in your self righteous pontification.
Quote:
I intended to point out that life is more complex and show a realistic scenario that could happen (has happened to me once, BTW) and see if the blood lust crowd could see the point.
Well, it seems I'm guilty of taking your post at face value and not realizing your point was directly related to another thread I wasn't aware of.

Ah jeez, Glen. Why not let the rest of us in on the intent of the thread to begin with and lessen the chance of a "self righteous pontification" to which you ascribed my post.

Besides, your trick didn't work, since not one poster answered yes to shooting through the door and identifying themselves as part of "the blood lust crowd".

See, this is what happens when old geezers like Glen and me have too much time on our hands. Maybe I should consider going back to drinking.

Last edited by Nnobby45; September 4, 2008 at 05:08 PM.
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Old September 4, 2008, 06:54 PM   #48
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What do you guys think? Is it time to close this one?

Seems that pretty much all that can be said has been said...

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Old September 4, 2008, 07:19 PM   #49
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Obvious problem for any of you with teenage kids. I know when I was living at home, it wasn't rare for me to sneak one of my girlfriends in the house in the middle of the night. Also wasn't rare for me to sneak over to their houses. Make sure of your target and their intent before firing, if they are foe then let the JHP go.
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Old September 4, 2008, 07:29 PM   #50
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Yeah, I think the OP's question has been addressed pretty throughly.
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