Excess wax on my 9mm bullets...from the ring

Roadie · August 28, 2008, 07:57 PM

So here is a pic of the bullets...on the left are a few that I have wiped off, the right shows the wax all over the bullets. How clean do they need to be to be safely loaded, does it matter if there is wax on the bottom, are they fine if the excess is gone and the nose is clean? What would be the best thing to do here. I have 2500 of them, I was warned of their condition by the seller, and they were really cheap...couldn't pass up the bargain. Also, as I am wiping them clean, I would guess that some of the wax comes out of the ring...is that ok? I asked this question on another forum and am not getting much help...I am hoping that you folks here will be able to advise me....thanks

Oh, I know what the wax ring is for, it's a bullet lube to ease leading in the barrel.

Sevens · August 28, 2008, 08:48 PM

As I've heard it explained, the bullet lube ring is compressed when the gas is pushing from the rear and the lead is pushing from the front and it ends up making a little tube of lube that the bullet rides in on it's way down the barrel.

If this is indeed true (I think I read that on one of the big casting sites) than I would imagine excess lube won't hurt anything other than possibly gumming up the action if it ends up squished all over the inside of your pistol.

I would not want shoot a bunch of bullets with missing lube, but I don't think it would be a problem to shoot the ones in your picture. And I would simply wipe any excess from the exposed bullet AFTER it's been loaded and becomes a complete cartridge, just to make them look "right" and keep some of the excess lube out of the action.

So my opinion is miles from expert, but I would think they are just fine to shoot.

NOW, I wanna hear what kind of a screaming deal you got on them-- are they 125 gr LRN 9mm bullets? I'd like to hear the deal!

RGS · August 28, 2008, 08:51 PM

The bullet caster I buy bullets from sizes and lubes the bullets like you have, but then he also has a dilute tumble lube he puts on after. It is all over the bullet. It feels a little sticky. I don't wipe it off and it shoots fine.

The bad thing is any grit or dirt that comes in contact with the bullets tends to stay on them. This doesn't do your barrel any good when you shoot them through it. So take care to keep your bullets stored in a tight container.

If the lube on the bottom of the bullet feels like wax, I don't think you have anything to worry about as far as it reacting with the powder charge. You can wipe off the base of the bullets if it bothers you.

Rick

Roadie · August 28, 2008, 09:12 PM

So they if I knock off the larger chunks of blue wax that are on the nose of many of the bullets, I can load them, and then clean the nose when they are done?
Basically the bullets on the left of the pic are fine to load as is, just clean the noses when finished before firing them...is that the general consensus?

I was afraid that if there was any wax on or around the nose when it was fired it might cause an over pressure issue.

mikenbarb · August 28, 2008, 11:50 PM

Wow, You should see mine

. I wipe the lube off the bottoms good and load em up. I was getting alot more mess on the sides than the ones your doing and mine shot fine. I was using ALOX at the time and switched to red and im getting alot better results now.

RGS · August 29, 2008, 09:29 AM

I'd probably wipe off the nose after loading. Magazines are where most bad thing start with auto loaders, so with that in mind the less debris on the cartridges before they go through, the less chance of feed issues.

Once the cartridge is fired, compression, rotational forces and plenty of super hot gas act on the bullet. The lube ring is squeezed as the bullet base is pushed forward. The bullet bumps up to more or less fill the bore. Centrifugal force tries to flatten the lube groove of the bullet against the bore. As the bullet spins, the now molten lube is flung outward. Some of it is pushed past the forward driving band and down the bore. The rest acts as a liquid 'O' ring at the forward driving band. As the bullet moves down the bore, more lube is forced out front and the 'O' ring gets a little smaller. If the bullet is designed properly, the bullet will exit the barrel before that 'O' ring runs out of lube.

wncchester · August 29, 2008, 11:28 AM

"I can load them, and then clean the nose when they are done?"

Yes. A small cloth dampened with mineral spirits works nicely for that.

Bullets are typically over-lubed, at least somewhat. If you are getting a distinct ring of lube around the muzzle, you have more than enough lube. If the lube is a good one, such as Alox, you only need the grooves filled maybe 70-80%.

It's good to wipe the bases clean before seating but even that isn't needed if the lube is a hard one OR you will be shooting them within a couple weeks or so. Otherwise heat may melt some lubes and allow it to mix with the powder. That's not desireable for accuracy.

Roadie · August 29, 2008, 11:41 AM

Thanks guys, being a cast noob I just know any better...it's nice to know I don't have to wipe clean all 2500 of them.

Oh, and for Stevens...the deal was $112 for all 2500 124gr bullets shipped..$.045 cents per bullet...I figured that was a pretty good deal. After I get the powder and primers, each finished round will cost me about 9 cents...not to shabby I say.

Sevens · September 3, 2008, 10:22 AM

Good deal. Does your seller have more lots of these for sale at the price? Would be interested, thanks.

dardascastbullets · September 5, 2008, 10:21 AM

Roadie,
After reviewing your attached photograph, I must conclude that you have purchased 2,500 pieces of scrap. I will point out the flaws that are evident in your photo.
1) The excess wax left on the bullets was caused by improper top punch setting, a bleed hole has opened in the sizing die, or excessive pressure on the lube column. This condition is simply not acceptable.
2) The bases are rounded and not filled out completely. This was caused by an inadequate alloy, a low casting temperature, a short throw time, or a miss-alignment between the mould and the pour nozzle.
3) There are gross parting lines visible which is not acceptable. This was caused by not thoroughly cleaning the moulds on a regular basis, and/or the moulds have been treated roughly and will not align as a result. These bullets will have a very extreme weight distribution resulting in a very poor quality to say the least.
4) The wax on the bottom of the bullets was caused by either base-through-circumference defects or the bullet-prior-to-the-previous-bullet going through the automatic lubrisizer was base first. These bullets should have been scrapped and collected for remelt.

The caster that you purchased these scrap bullets from does not have any quality standards, and merely packages everything that comes off of the machines (without any visual inspection whatsoever). This is why you received 'such a cheap deal'.

Cast bullets are not synonymous with low quality and low value. To the contrary, they can be synonymous with very high quality, precision, and value for your dollar depending on who you purchase them from.

Matt Dardas
Dardas Cast Bullets

August 28, 2008, 07:57 PM	#1
Roadie Junior Member Join Date: June 20, 2008 Posts: 7	Excess wax on my 9mm bullets...from the ring So here is a pic of the bullets...on the left are a few that I have wiped off, the right shows the wax all over the bullets. How clean do they need to be to be safely loaded, does it matter if there is wax on the bottom, are they fine if the excess is gone and the nose is clean? What would be the best thing to do here. I have 2500 of them, I was warned of their condition by the seller, and they were really cheap...couldn't pass up the bargain. Also, as I am wiping them clean, I would guess that some of the wax comes out of the ring...is that ok? I asked this question on another forum and am not getting much help...I am hoping that you folks here will be able to advise me....thanks Oh, I know what the wax ring is for, it's a bullet lube to ease leading in the barrel.

August 28, 2008, 08:48 PM	#2
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 6,936	As I've heard it explained, the bullet lube ring is compressed when the gas is pushing from the rear and the lead is pushing from the front and it ends up making a little tube of lube that the bullet rides in on it's way down the barrel. If this is indeed true (I think I read that on one of the big casting sites) than I would imagine excess lube won't hurt anything other than possibly gumming up the action if it ends up squished all over the inside of your pistol. I would not want shoot a bunch of bullets with missing lube, but I don't think it would be a problem to shoot the ones in your picture. And I would simply wipe any excess from the exposed bullet AFTER it's been loaded and becomes a complete cartridge, just to make them look "right" and keep some of the excess lube out of the action. So my opinion is miles from expert, but I would think they are just fine to shoot. NOW, I wanna hear what kind of a screaming deal you got on them-- are they 125 gr LRN 9mm bullets? I'd like to hear the deal! __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

August 28, 2008, 11:50 PM	#5
mikenbarb Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2007 Location: N.J. Posts: 1,111	Wow, You should see mine. I wipe the lube off the bottoms good and load em up. I was getting alot more mess on the sides than the ones your doing and mine shot fine. I was using ALOX at the time and switched to red and im getting alot better results now. __________________ Mike B. Gun control= Being able to hit your target. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pifinnercircle

September 3, 2008, 10:22 AM	#9
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 6,936	Good deal. Does your seller have more lots of these for sale at the price? Would be interested, thanks. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

August 28, 2008, 08:51 PM	#3
RGS Member Join Date: June 17, 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 78	The bullet caster I buy bullets from sizes and lubes the bullets like you have, but then he also has a dilute tumble lube he puts on after. It is all over the bullet. It feels a little sticky. I don't wipe it off and it shoots fine. The bad thing is any grit or dirt that comes in contact with the bullets tends to stay on them. This doesn't do your barrel any good when you shoot them through it. So take care to keep your bullets stored in a tight container. If the lube on the bottom of the bullet feels like wax, I don't think you have anything to worry about as far as it reacting with the powder charge. You can wipe off the base of the bullets if it bothers you. Rick

August 28, 2008, 09:12 PM	#4
Roadie Junior Member Join Date: June 20, 2008 Posts: 7	So they if I knock off the larger chunks of blue wax that are on the nose of many of the bullets, I can load them, and then clean the nose when they are done? Basically the bullets on the left of the pic are fine to load as is, just clean the noses when finished before firing them...is that the general consensus? I was afraid that if there was any wax on or around the nose when it was fired it might cause an over pressure issue.

August 29, 2008, 09:29 AM	#6
RGS Member Join Date: June 17, 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 78	I'd probably wipe off the nose after loading. Magazines are where most bad thing start with auto loaders, so with that in mind the less debris on the cartridges before they go through, the less chance of feed issues. Once the cartridge is fired, compression, rotational forces and plenty of super hot gas act on the bullet. The lube ring is squeezed as the bullet base is pushed forward. The bullet bumps up to more or less fill the bore. Centrifugal force tries to flatten the lube groove of the bullet against the bore. As the bullet spins, the now molten lube is flung outward. Some of it is pushed past the forward driving band and down the bore. The rest acts as a liquid 'O' ring at the forward driving band. As the bullet moves down the bore, more lube is forced out front and the 'O' ring gets a little smaller. If the bullet is designed properly, the bullet will exit the barrel before that 'O' ring runs out of lube.

August 29, 2008, 11:28 AM	#7
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,705	"I can load them, and then clean the nose when they are done?" Yes. A small cloth dampened with mineral spirits works nicely for that. Bullets are typically over-lubed, at least somewhat. If you are getting a distinct ring of lube around the muzzle, you have more than enough lube. If the lube is a good one, such as Alox, you only need the grooves filled maybe 70-80%. It's good to wipe the bases clean before seating but even that isn't needed if the lube is a hard one OR you will be shooting them within a couple weeks or so. Otherwise heat may melt some lubes and allow it to mix with the powder. That's not desireable for accuracy.

August 29, 2008, 11:41 AM	#8
Roadie Junior Member Join Date: June 20, 2008 Posts: 7	Thanks guys, being a cast noob I just know any better...it's nice to know I don't have to wipe clean all 2500 of them. Oh, and for Stevens...the deal was $112 for all 2500 124gr bullets shipped..$.045 cents per bullet...I figured that was a pretty good deal. After I get the powder and primers, each finished round will cost me about 9 cents...not to shabby I say.

September 5, 2008, 10:21 AM	#10
dardascastbullets Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2008 Location: Essexville, MI Posts: 153	Roadie, After reviewing your attached photograph, I must conclude that you have purchased 2,500 pieces of scrap. I will point out the flaws that are evident in your photo. 1) The excess wax left on the bullets was caused by improper top punch setting, a bleed hole has opened in the sizing die, or excessive pressure on the lube column. This condition is simply not acceptable. 2) The bases are rounded and not filled out completely. This was caused by an inadequate alloy, a low casting temperature, a short throw time, or a miss-alignment between the mould and the pour nozzle. 3) There are gross parting lines visible which is not acceptable. This was caused by not thoroughly cleaning the moulds on a regular basis, and/or the moulds have been treated roughly and will not align as a result. These bullets will have a very extreme weight distribution resulting in a very poor quality to say the least. 4) The wax on the bottom of the bullets was caused by either base-through-circumference defects or the bullet-prior-to-the-previous-bullet going through the automatic lubrisizer was base first. These bullets should have been scrapped and collected for remelt. The caster that you purchased these scrap bullets from does not have any quality standards, and merely packages everything that comes off of the machines (without any visual inspection whatsoever). This is why you received 'such a cheap deal'. Cast bullets are not synonymous with low quality and low value. To the contrary, they can be synonymous with very high quality, precision, and value for your dollar depending on who you purchase them from. Matt Dardas Dardas Cast Bullets