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Old August 28, 2008, 05:51 PM   #51
cjw3cma
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After careful consideration of how our local sheriff would react to the aftermath -

Someone found in my house without my permission, In a controlled voice I would say "Goodbye" and then proceed to empty the magazine.

For someone caught on my property without my permission, I would do the exact same thing.

If they are stupid enough to try and do their thing on my property or my home, they deserve the aftermath. I once did hold 2 BG's at gunpoint until the police arrived (they had entered my house in San Diego without authorization and it turned out were members of an outlaw motorcycle gang). I was told by the responding officers that I should have saved them all the hassle and just shot them both with the .357 revolver. But at that time I was scared sh*tless and just held them until the cops got there.

Now living in southern Oregon (out in the boonies so to speak) I abide by what I said above. Not as scared anymore.
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Old August 28, 2008, 06:20 PM   #52
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hogdogs wrote:

Quote:
If i am not 100% positive it is an intruder my likely statement would be a simple "MAY I HELP YOU?" if I do not recognize the voice as someone allowed in my home I MUST fire instantly as I have given up the element of surprise and stealth.
Quote:
Not sure I would maintain this composure but my intended 911 statement would be along these lines... 911: "911 police fire or medical please?" Me:"i think you may want to send police and an ambulance." 911: "Sir what is your emergency? what has happened?" Me:"No rush, no emergency. An intruder has been shot and is not moving, He in xxxxxx room I am going to be UNARMED when the officer arrives. I am the resident along with wife and 2 young adult children... We are all okay and safe... see ya when ya get here... take ya'lls time, Bye... "
Quote:
If any one thinks they can waltz in my home and rob me is either so stupid he can't know right from wrong or so brazen he knows but chooses wrong! In either case I cannot fathom handing out free passes...
Quote:
Glenn, He will be dead... I can't take my eyes off the thug to call 911 until he is no longer a threat and I am neither a battlefield surgeon nor mortician I am a simple guy and deciding threat or no threat is as easy as breathing or not breathing...It is callous but thug life rules say things like live by the gun die by the gun.
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I permanently attached a bianchi leather holster to the front end of every motorcycle I rode... An empty pistol holster is a scary thing!
There are alot of people on this board who do not use their heads. So many with such bravado and swagger. So many that seem, comfy in their computer chairs, to have no remorse, and no thought for human life. These attitudes are bad. Thank God that most people with these Clint Eastwood Make My Day attitudes are usually the first to pee their pants or run screaming and shaking when their tough guy button is not engaged, safely behind the internet.

Sorry to pick on you so much hogdogs, its just that you made the most statements that show an attitude that I could most defiantly use against you in court. You make it easy with your own rambo rants to paint you as a murderer. A cold, callous, rambo wanna-be, just waiting to deal out death to anyone who crossed your path, with no thought of remorse or negotiation.

You live your thug life, and how dare they be so brazen to challenge me, and oh yeah 911, take your time, this dude's dead, who cares....

You think these words, and others won't be dug up by a good attorney and used to put you in prison? Regardless of what laws may be in place, they paint you in a bad light to a jury, and you acting like dirty harry, and you could find yourself in deep trouble.

Self Defence is to save a life ONLY. PERIOD. Not an excuse to play tough guy. And I'm not trying to bust your balls here, you just need to scrutinize what you say and write carefully. The Prosecution undoubtedly will.....
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Old August 28, 2008, 06:26 PM   #53
David Armstrong
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David, It is super smart to realize that once your perp has left he knows you own guns...
And all the evidence available tends to indicate burglars will try to avoid homes where they know somebody may be armed.
Quote:
They are a high ticket black market item... I know a "clean" (not reported stolen) mossberg 500 can bring $500 and a hi-cap handgun can bring a grand if also not reported stolen. Now the perp tries to burglarize when you ain't home but your child may be.
If that really worries you, get a gun safe and teach your child how to shoot. Not sure why that would be a worry but having a gunbattle with the child in the house doesn't bother you.
Quote:
I see every burglar as a potential murderer and will treat any inside my home as such....
Few burglars are murderers, and you may certainly choose however you wish to treat them inside your home. I would suggest that while perhaps it is psychologically rewarding to shoot them, in reality it is far more likely to result in only making the problem worse.

Quote:
Glenn, He will be dead...
Many have made that same assumption, only to be proven wrong. It ain't Hollywood, the good guys don't always win.
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Old August 28, 2008, 06:32 PM   #54
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Warnings should be short and sweet, stop, don't move, drop it, get down.

While you're in the middle of an adrenaline filled cursing frenzy your brain is seeking to finish the sentence, your reaction time to further aggression by the BG might be impeded just enough to hurt you because you're pre-occupied with your rambling string of profanities.

Also, you don't want to get a cornered animal any more afraid...same principle applies here. Once you have drawn a weapon and issued a command you have reversed roles, any further verbal aggression is senseless and serves no purpose.
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Old August 28, 2008, 07:47 PM   #55
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If the situation has escalated to you having to draw your gun there ain't going to be any time to talk.

Click (If Applicable) Boom!
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Old August 28, 2008, 08:12 PM   #56
hogdogs
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Mr.Armstrong, The whole reason for me not giving warning is to avoid a "gun battle"... One person shooting an intruder is not a gun battle.

Derius, I have a high regard for human life! All respectful, law abiding humans will get the shirt off my back, first aid, help loading groceries etc.
But I refuse to allow anyone to attempt to victimize me or my family and will try my best to prevent the same for others. I give the life of a criminal the same respect they give me...
As for most burglars are not murderers... Correct but anyone who enters an occupied dwelling is a home invader not a simple burglar. Anyone who enters my home without permission is presumed to be heavily armed and extremely dangerous and I have not the time nor inclination to assess the situation to determine if threat is reduced.
Brent
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Old August 28, 2008, 08:20 PM   #57
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+1 hogdog
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Old August 28, 2008, 09:02 PM   #58
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Me too.
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Old August 28, 2008, 10:30 PM   #59
Derius_T
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hogdogs, I'm not saying even for a second that a threat to you or your loved ones should be taken lightly. A home invader is most defiantly as real as it gets. Its make or break time then. I whole heartedly agree.

However, its your words, phrasing, and general attitude that I was concerned with. If you come across as overly aggressive or ready to kill to a guy like me, then how do you think you will come off to the police, or a jury? Call 911 with that attitude, and conduct the call in that manner? Really? Just sounds ignorant, and full of internet bravado. If you were to use those words, you can believe me that it would be used against you.

You just have to be careful how you present yourself, and what you choose to say when on a PUBLIC forum. Thats the whole point, not that you shouldn't protect you or yours with whatever tools are at your disposal. You just don't need to sound happy about it.....it can bite you.
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Old August 28, 2008, 10:35 PM   #60
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After much thought I've decided, "Hola Senor, Alto."
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Old August 28, 2008, 11:17 PM   #61
dabigguns357
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Reminds me of a chow dog i had once,Dang dog never barked a day in her life but get to close and she would rip you to shreds.I was almost sued for an attack when a b/g tried to break in to my home,the dog got the worst out of the deal and had to be put down.Anyways the point i'm trying to make always be alert of your surroundings and never give up your best defence,your position.

A elderly woman once shot a man for breaking in,after it was over she calmly told the police that she didn't know him and they didn't have any thing to talk about.
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Old August 29, 2008, 06:43 AM   #62
Saab1911
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You guys scare the @@@@ out of me.

On my business trip to Prague, Czech Republic, I was working late. When I
was ready to leave, I was the only one left in the office. The office door
had a goofy feature when activated prevents the door from being opened
from the inside or the outside.



I accidentally engaged that feature, and after about fifteen minutes of
fumbling with the door, I decided to jump out the bathroom window. Unlucky
for me, the bathroom window opened out into a court-yard. So, basically
I was in people's backyards. And the thought did cross my mind that I may
get shot. Czech Repulic is after all home of CZ and also the home of the
best AK-47 ever made.

Luckily, I located a corridor that was not part of anyone's home and was
able to find my way to the street.

Weird things happen, and maybe somebody will wander into my house. I
won't bust a cap in his buttocks just for being inside my house. I'm going
to warn him first. Then, once his intentions are clear, I'll either shoot him or
tell him where the door is.

Cheers,

Jae
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Old August 29, 2008, 07:06 AM   #63
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Finding a burglar in your living room with arms full of your DVD or china?

Is that a life and death shoot'em? One should consider that. You do have some time. While some folks will say "Castle" and blast him - think that is an always and useful response?

What's a true life and death situation? Is the world black and white?
If there is one perp in your home, there are likely two perps. Do you really want to engage in a nice exchange of words while his buddy flanks you?

It has been my experience that intruders in the home are not there for the benefit of my family or me.
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Old August 29, 2008, 07:59 AM   #64
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
while his buddy flanks you?

To each his own. I can not be "flanked" in the lay out of my home.


I will NOT kill over property.
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Old August 29, 2008, 08:06 AM   #65
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The main point for any of us should be to not have to take a life, or to see other lives being taken. Unfortunately, the actions of the BG may prevent this.

There are four situations when I would shoot without warning:
1. If the BG has a weapon pointed at me.
2. If the BG has a weapon pointed at my family.
3. If the BG is already shooting.
4. If he's in my house and advancing.

Any other scene demands (for me) that I give warning - ONE warning only!

"Freeze!"
"Stop or I'll shoot."

If he does anything else than freeze or stop, I pull the trigger and fire until the threat is negated. Even if he's armed, I got him in my sights and I can get one off if he even twitches that hand with the weapon in it.

I'm not eager to take a life, but nor am I eager to avoid it. I'll do what the scene demands at the time. Each situation is different.
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Old August 29, 2008, 08:14 AM   #66
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Quote:
I will NOT kill over property.
Admirable! No one wants to take a life over a toaster.

Fortunately, if someone is in your house, most courts will let you assume they are there to harm you, not just to steal from you. If someone is in your house to steal and meets resistance, they're apt to react violently to either steal or get away. You can't assume they're trying to get away in that case.

However, I once had a short conversation with a BG at gunpoint from 5 feet - cocked and aimed right between his eyes:
"You wouldn't shoot me over $10, would you?"
"I'd shoot you over ten cents." Drop the bill."

In that case, a little intimidation and posturing convinced him he was close to seeing another world, and actually avoided a shooting.
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Old August 29, 2008, 08:34 AM   #67
fjk1911
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Since I will guess that the perp did not ring the doorbell to be invited into your home to steal your toaster and thereby did not "warn" me or my family of his intentions, I am with Keltyke and don't plan to "warn" him of mine under Kelt's exact conditions.

+1

As Mike Tyson said "I throw every punch with bad intentions." I think, just my opinion, that a BG meeting those conditions above has bad intentions towards me too.
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Old August 29, 2008, 08:44 AM   #68
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You know, most of you people scare me to death. I see a whole lot of chairborne commandos on here anymore. You all assume that you're Rambo and will never be overpowered, outsmarted, out drawn or out shot. What is the old saying about expect the unexpected. Remember alot of the people breaking into homes are professional criminals, they too know how to use a gun and really dont have anything to lose in killing the know it all, two to the chest home owner who thinks the sound of a shotgun being racked will send all but the bravest man running for their lives. You people who would shoot someone over a toaster, I sure hope the old lady next door never comes knocking to borrow a cup of sugar or she may end up with a red dot on her forehead. I'm glad I dont live in the war zones...or dreamlands that you folks do. I get tired too of hearing about the super breeds of dogs you guys own too, yes a mean dog is quite a detterent but dogs arent bullet proof or cant survive a poisoned steak "treat" from an intuder. Really people, this is the kind of attitude the anti gun people see. If you CCW dont flaunt it, even on an internet forum. That CC piece is for your protection, you're not automatically deputized because of it. Remember too that once you pull the trigger you cant being that bullet back. The guy stealing your tv with the intent to sell it to help feed a starving family ( yes there are people who steal for their families) wont be coming back. Seriously everyone, leave the Rambo attitudes to Hollywood and think for once before you go off and say or do something that will affect you for the rest of your life.
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Old August 29, 2008, 09:18 AM   #69
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I would never even think of "killing a man over a toaster" Heck I wouldn't think of it for any inanimate object! I will however kill him OVER A HOME INVASION!
As for being outsmarted... That is one reason to not engage in idle chit chat.
As for being a chest beating rambo ninja blood thirsty heartless bastard... I am just an average size guy of full middle age with physical limitations. I have to put the leverage firmly in my court instantly or risk being victimized by a HOME INVADER.
As for a 2 to the chest comment... I prefer one to the chest followed up with a few more for good measure. Gotta save a few in case his buddy wants to play ball too.
If it is a dog eat dog world, I won't be like one of our fellow TFL members... wearing the milkbone underwear.
It is high time the thugs of society realize that crime is a risky profession and many highly respectful type folks refuse to allow themselves to be victimized.
Brent
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Old August 29, 2008, 09:47 AM   #70
Glenn E. Meyer
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Glenn, He will be dead...

Guess I wasted my time listening to lectures on gun shot wounds and survivability. I will opine that if forensics show that you fired a killing wound on a person on the ground - the Castle doctrine may not save your butt. It will be an interesting test case.

So who proposes the finishing shot?

As far as being flanked - that presupposes you are exploring the house to engage the bad guy. Unless you have to save the kids, clearing for 'the china' - ain't my plan. From a good cover position, you shouldn't get flanked.

There is a lot of posturing for emotional response to territorial violation and a need to punish the BG as compared to planning for an optimal outcome for you.
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Old August 29, 2008, 10:05 AM   #71
hogdogs
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I have never studied ballistic survivability. I have shot a few animals at close range with shotguns and upon butchering I was witness to the devastation internally to both the organs contacted by the lead and other wise untouched organs as well. If the wounded home invader attempts to get up he is still a threat. I am not fearless...
As for going out lookin' for the fight... I seem to have always lived in split plan homes. If the bad guy ain't in my sight he may be headed for my son or daughters bed room.
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Old August 29, 2008, 11:21 AM   #72
Glenn E. Meyer
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There's no guarantee - my point - that the intruder will be dead. So stating 'he will be dead' contributes nothing to the real discussion of options. It is posturing.
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Old August 29, 2008, 12:04 PM   #73
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My CHL instructor was asked the same question.

Answer: STOP or HALT! and if they they are a stranger and dont stop, if you have your firearm out you must be in fear for your life so the next step is to shoot.

This is taking into consideration that you are in circumstances like your house at night or in a situation where it is legal to use deadly force to protect yourself.
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Old August 29, 2008, 12:24 PM   #74
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I think warnings are legally optional in New York, my state - it's not mentioned in law that I know of.

I can see it in some circumstances as giving someone a last chance not to get shot, and in others giving someone a last chance to shoot you first knowing now you have a weapon. Soooooooo, I have no plans to give a warning if a god-awful event should happen, I might but I don't add it in as planning. One more thing to add in your thinking, makes one more thing to possibly screw you up at point-of-crisis.

I keep it simple: #1: you are in a situation you feel with reason you will be killed NOW #2 draw, point, shoot, #3 quick prayer for him and you, call 911 and a lawyer.
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Old August 29, 2008, 12:38 PM   #75
David Armstrong
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Quote:
Mr.Armstrong, The whole reason for me not giving warning is to avoid a "gun battle"... One person shooting an intruder is not a gun battle.
Assuming that (1) the other guy is not armed; and (2) that you are so good that you will always stop him with your first shot; and (3) that the BG is by himself are fairly questionable assumptions. Thus, a gunbattle.
Quote:
As for most burglars are not murderers... Correct but anyone who enters an occupied dwelling is a home invader not a simple burglar.
Actually most home burglaries are just that, simple home burglaries. The BGs aren't there to physically harm anyone.
Quote:
Anyone who enters my home without permission is presumed to be heavily armed and extremely dangerous...
If that is your assumption, why start a gunfight with them, endangering everyone in the house, when it is not necessary?
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